Eibach Rear Sway Bar Impressions

[GRStinger]

Got on the cloverleaf uninterrupted this afternoon. As I approached I turned traction and stability OFF, put it in manual gate and as I entered the turn I downshifted to 4, so my RPMs were over 3K. With all that going on I didn't steer as smoothly as I would have liked: "apexed" twice, lol. I tried to get a glance at the G meter as I came around the top, but for some reason I had a bit of a challenge doing that very well too. I did snap a glance at .6 G, which isn't impressive at all; I'm pretty sure I got to at least .7 briefly because I didn't hear the tires at .6 but did hear them as I came out on top, accelerating away. And the tire sound was very low. Now the feel when I had that level of tire sound before the Eibach bar was without question a lot more movement in the back. I wouldn't describe anything I've felt at any time as "floaty", as some drivers do (but they are comparing to other high performance cars; I can't do that): but did the back end feel like it was moving in and out a bit? Yes, something like that: yet still assuredly grippy: I never felt like the rear was going to do something sudden and alarming. I would say it was planted but "playful", as Biermann likes to put it.

Now the Eibach is not only planted, it is in a smooth arc throughout the whole turn, no "in and out", nothing. Can I go faster in a turn with this? That is what I believe, but I don't know yet. I'll have to push harder next time to get the same degree of tire sound as with the OEM sway bar. I am guessing that I'll be pulling more G but not a lot more, maybe couple more tenths, when I have the tires roaring. But will the understeer be the same or less or more? Without the front sway bar, perhaps the understeer will come on more sudden like when it does. Maybe I won't push these A/S tires enough to deal with understeer; and yet I'll get at least the same G in the turn that I did with the OEM sway bar and noisy tires and a lot more feeling of control. I already know that even one time on the cloverleaf proves the Eibach keeps the rear end down and virtually motionless. Cool.

I am intrigued, and beginning to think a set of Eibach’s are in my future. I rarely visit the Tuning threads here, as better ¼ mile times and-such are not a priority for me (although 400hp or-so would be nice to have). That said, I’ve always enjoyed pushing my cars’ performance limits (and have been successful to-date in keeping them between the ditches ). I love pushing my Stinger too (in appropriate road and weather conditions – of course). The slight rear “float” is expected, but I’d like to eliminate some of the “nervousness” of the back-end - especially when cornering at-speed on uneven pavement.

 

[NS_Stinger]

Got on the cloverleaf uninterrupted this afternoon. As I approached I turned traction and stability OFF, put it in manual gate and as I entered the turn I downshifted to 4, so my RPMs were over 3K. With all that going on I didn't steer as smoothly as I would have liked: "apexed" twice, lol. I tried to get a glance at the G meter as I came around the top, but for some reason I had a bit of a challenge doing that very well too. I did snap a glance at .6 G, which isn't impressive at all; I'm pretty sure I got to at least .7 briefly because I didn't hear the tires at .6 but did hear them as I came out on top, accelerating away. And the tire sound was very low. Now the feel when I had that level of tire sound before the Eibach bar was without question a lot more movement in the back. I wouldn't describe anything I've felt at any time as "floaty", as some drivers do (but they are comparing to other high performance cars; I can't do that): but did the back end feel like it was moving in and out a bit? Yes, something like that: yet still assuredly grippy: I never felt like the rear was going to do something sudden and alarming. I would say it was planted but "playful", as Biermann likes to put it.

Now the Eibach is not only planted, it is in a smooth arc throughout the whole turn, no "in and out", nothing. Can I go faster in a turn with this? That is what I believe, but I don't know yet. I'll have to push harder next time to get the same degree of tire sound as with the OEM sway bar. I am guessing that I'll be pulling more G but not a lot more, maybe couple more tenths, when I have the tires roaring. But will the understeer be the same or less or more? Without the front sway bar, perhaps the understeer will come on more sudden like when it does. Maybe I won't push these A/S tires enough to deal with understeer; and yet I'll get at least the same G in the turn that I did with the OEM sway bar and noisy tires and a lot more feeling of control. I already know that even one time on the cloverleaf proves the Eibach keeps the rear end down and virtually motionless. Cool.

Do you think you'll end up installing the front bar as well?

 

[MerlintheMad]

I rarely visit the Tuning threads here

Me too. Tuning is barely a peripheral interest to me. But handling, that is a whole nother thing. This car is already so far beyond anything I've ever driven that it doesn't "need" a tune. Torque is outrageous. Top end is far beyond anything I'll likely ever touch again (unless I track it, and I don't see that coming anytime soon if ever). Handling is everything: planted speed in curves so that I don't feel twitchiness or wiggles, as you say, on uneven surfaces, that is what I am all in for.

Do you think you'll end up installing the front bar as well?

Probably. If this upgraded rear bar already produces as much difference as I've tried to describe after just one push through a 270 degree turn, then having the full monty is instantly an intriguing idea. If the understeer has worsened by having the rear bar; if the understeer isn't more of a surprise, then it might be awhile before I get the front bar. I'm going to push where I've pushed before so that I can determine the difference. And from there I can imagine me imagining what difference the full set of Eibach sway bars would make.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Here are the two places on I-215 and I-15 that I am talking about:

 

[MerlintheMad]

The soft setting(?) and the right bushing. Interesting view.

I am questioning that this is the "soft" setting. I specifically said, "put it in SOFT". But it seems that the hole furthest away from the bushings would do the most stiffening; reduce the length, and the pressure on the bushing points would be less. Am I right?

(edit to add: Eibach adjustable rear sway bar, which holes? This discussion runs against my "intuition" - and that of others as well, so I don't feel so bad - so the bar is softest with the nut in the end hole. What weird things sway bars are.)

 

[MerlintheMad]

But will the understeer be the same or less or more? Without the front sway bar, perhaps the understeer will come on more sudden like when it does.

I found this: Eibach adjustable rear sway bar, which holes?
It seems that the Eibach front sway bar will increase understeer. I don't want that! I was already getting understeer when I pushed the cloverleaf hard. The Eibach rear sway bar seems to have (possibly) reduced understeer tendency.

 

[CaliSting]

Yes rear bar increases oversteer and front increases understeer. With AWD car I wouldn't bother with front bar. Its overkill. I will say however that I have only front bar on my RWD car and under steer is minimal but the traction gains in rear are huge. Front bar just tames all wallowing and balances power oversteer issues RWD car has. AWD car just needs a little help getting tail around and bigger rear bar helps with that. If you live in snow country I wouldnt want much more bar on the car as your improving responsiveness and increasing effective spring rate when turning but losing some level of ultimate grip. Less goodness when in low traction situations. When it rains and its really slippery on a tight race course I have disconnected my rear sways on my Porsche race car.

Firm is hole that shortens the lever soft is furthest out - think about the physics harder to bend something with shorter lever easier when you have a long lever.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Firm is hole that shortens the lever soft is furthest out - think about the physics harder to bend something with shorter lever easier when you have a long lever.

And that makes sense! I was looking at it weird. A kind of "dyslexic" disconnect.

Eibach says the stiffer setting is for track and smooth surfaces. Soft is for uneven roads and rain. That goes along with you disconnecting your race car's rear bar in the rain; a move in that direction anyway. One must obtain the best of all possible worlds in a daily driver. A race car, of course, gets modified for existing conditions.

 

[Ruturaj]

With AWD car I wouldn't bother with front bar. Its overkill.

Overkill as in

just waste of money and no benefits
or
waste of money with worst performance?

I had created thread regarding similar discussion

3.3TT - Eibach sway bar both or just rear for AWD Stinger

 

[CaliSting]

Overkill as in

just waste of money and no benefits
or
waste of money with worst performance?

I had created thread regarding similar discussion

3.3TT - Eibach sway bar both or just rear for AWD Stinger

For street car it’s just overkill. I know Mad M bought car for longer touring and doesn’t do much high performance driving. But seems like he appreciates decent handling. Rear bar just helps tame understeer but keeps ride near OEM. I can feel ride quality impact with my front bar

Different drivers have different requirements.

If I had AWD I’d probably do both bars and springs but I’m a bit extreme. Whole idea of this car is comfy GT car. I have often thought about yanking bigger bar off front as I think Kia engineers got it right.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Rear bar just helps tame understeer but keeps ride near OEM.

That is the direction my early impressions are going. Yesterday on the interchange from I-80 west, to I-15 south, which is quite up and downy, I did the prefered thing and took the outside lane to pass slower inside (left lane) traffic. I pushed it a bit to get a comparative feel with what my "cells" remember about the OEM sway bars. With the Eibach rear sway bar the ride around everybody was still noticeably up and down with the road (go figure), but the steering felt more secure somehow; the rear was tighter as if the body was not getting as much movement; but as for going faster, I wasn't feeling like that was going to happen. I'm still feeling my way. The feeling in the steering might be the biggest change.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Here are the two places on I-215 and I-15 that I am talking about:
View attachment 18767

Last night, on the upper interchange (not the cloverleaf), I hit 92 MPH. I attribute this solely to the rear sway bar upgrade. The down and up (almost a dip) in the center of the second, tighter turn (right where you pass under the bridge), was almost negligible; whereas before the upgrade that "dip" would flick the rear end up and out; nothing inimical to grip, but the feeling was a little bit disconcerting: I was powering through it, gradually increasing my speed through the curve each time. Now, all of a sudden, I am going c. 8 MPH faster than my previous fastest. (note of interest: I had my wife on board and her trepidation as I approached/maneuvered into position to take the interchange "inspired" me to new heights of daring-do! Her squeals of alarm are delightful.)

 

[Ozstung]

Last night, on the upper interchange (not the cloverleaf), I hit 92 MPH. I attribute this solely to the rear sway bar upgrade. The down and up (almost a dip) in the center of the second, tighter turn (right where you pass under the bridge), was almost negligible; whereas before the upgrade that "dip" would flick the rear end up and out; nothing inimical to grip, but the feeling was a little bit disconcerting: I was powering through it, gradually increasing my speed through the curve each time. Now, all of a sudden, I am going c. 8 MPH faster than my previous fastest. (note of interest: I had my wife on board and her trepidation as I approached/maneuvered into position to take the interchange "inspired" me to new heights of daring-do! Her squeals of alarm are delightful.)

You fiend you

 

[kevin]

I pushed mine on the off ramp last night! It’s so stupid it’s not even funny. It’s just really on rails!! That is all I can say. Feels like I am on a roller coaster going around a ramp!! Doesn’t come unattached! But guys, please use common sense here!!! There is a limit to where it will come undone!! It’s not worth it to me to find it though! At that point, it will be too late!! Please be careful! Get both bars!! Truly worth it!!!!

 

[NS_Stinger]

I pushed mine on the off ramp last night! It’s so stupid it’s not even funny. It’s just really on rails!! That is all I can say. Feels like I am on a roller coaster going around a ramp!! Doesn’t come unattached! But guys, please use common sense here!!! There is a limit to where it will come undone!! It’s not worth it to me to find it though! At that point, it will be too late!! Please be careful! Get both bars!! Truly worth it!!!!

Are you RWD or AWD, I'm still very much on the fence about adding the front bar. I'm AWD I kind of like the handling as it is with just the rear bar installed.

 

[Ruturaj]

Are you RWD or AWD, I'm still very much on the fence about adding the front bar. I'm AWD I kind of like the handling as it is with just the rear bar installed.

I have AWD and interested in knowing this too. Right now I am planning to get both bars, install just rear for first 3 months then install front and then decide which way I like it more. That will be a while though as I am waiting few more months to buy them.

 

[kevin]

I am Rwd. I had a WRX before and it was modded also. I only had a rear bar on it, Eibach springs and rear sway bar links. When I would be in a ramp with that car. Pushing it to the max, the whole car would do a controlled slide around the ramp. I had a rear bar set on the mid setting on that car. I can’t speak as to how the Stinger would do in awd. Best thing is to confer with Eibach on your concerns. Only other thing I can say is, I am completely and seriously seriously grateful I put all the components on the car!! Love it love it love it!!! Also will say this, read references to car being fast and not needing a tune.... I have the Pro Tuner on my car on mode 2, all I can say on this also is!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Car is insane and I love it !!!!!!

 

[TwinSnails]

I have AWD and interested in knowing this too. Right now I am planning to get both bars, install just rear for first 3 months then install front and then decide which way I like it more. That will be a while though as I am waiting few more months to buy them.

With the AWD, you have to find your comfort level, leaving off the front will increase the rear end rotation, this IS what most people are looking for to lighten the front end feel on turn in or (oversteer), since the AWD feels like it understeers if pushed really hard from everything I’ve read and even tested one. The RWD might get too tail happy without a front bar.... dunno, haven’t installed one yet.

 

[MerlintheMad]

With the AWD, you have to find your comfort level, leaving off the front will increase the rear end rotation, this IS what most people are looking for to lighten the front end feel on turn in or (oversteer), since the AWD feels like it understeers if pushed really hard from everything I’ve read and even tested one. The RWD might get too tail happy without a front bar.... dunno, haven’t installed one yet.

This is my understanding also. I've experienced understeer on a number of occasions with the OEM sway bar. With the Eibach on "soft", so far the feeling is more toward front to rear being even, i.e. less feeling that understeer is going happen, and the rear is still sticking as before but with less body movement.

 

[Ruturaj]

With the AWD, you have to find your comfort level, leaving off the front will increase the rear end rotation, this IS what most people are looking for to lighten the front end feel on turn in or (oversteer), since the AWD feels like it understeers if pushed really hard from everything I’ve read and even tested one. The RWD might get too tail happy without a front bar.... dunno, haven’t installed one yet.

Thanks, I had driven FWD cars most of my life, so theoretically I knew that thicker rear sway will increase oversteer/decrease understeer. My only concern being overdoing it (too much oversteer) or as unbalanced ride. My understanding is since front sways increase stiffness by 39/51% and rear by 76/114 I will be getting reduction in understeer even with both.

This is my understanding also. I've experienced understeer on a number of occasions with the OEM sway bar. With the Eibach on "soft", so far the feeling is more toward front to rear being even, i.e. less feeling that understeer is going happen, and the rear is still sticking as before but with less body movement.

Yours is AWD?