Gas. 87, 91, 93 Octane?

[Marc Collins]

Oh, I agree, but without knowing how much power it's pulling using 87 over 93, I prefer to use 93 to get all the HP I paid for, and for a full tank of 93 over 87, it's only around $10 a tank right now. I'll just skip a number 1 from Chic-Fil-A every other week to make up for it, and as @eflyguy mentioned, on a long trip I'll definitely fill up with 87, but spirited around town driving, 93 all the way, plus I need that piece of mind knowing that I'm not risking detonation.

Yep, as mentioned multiple times at the beginning of this thread, we need the HP figures at various octane levels from KIA. They put it in the manuals of some other models, but total silence re: the Stinger, which is disconcerting given the post-release change of recommendation from regular to premium fuel. My guess: the car would not achieve the advertised HP and/or fuel economy with regular, so they covered their behinds by changing the documentation before getting sued or slapped by the EPA. KIA/Hyundai is very familiar with how costly false advertising of fuel economy can be...

 

[V10enomous]

Using 87 in the wife's 2018 2.0 Premium... I believe it's the exact same engine as the Optima where it calls for 87. Car is averaging 28-29mpg and sometimes ticks over 30mpg in eco mode.

 

[MisterMac]

Yep, as mentioned multiple times at the beginning of this thread, we need the HP figures at various octane levels from KIA. They put it in the manuals of some other models, but total silence re: the Stinger, which is disconcerting given the post-release change of recommendation from regular to premium fuel. My guess: the car would not achieve the advertised HP and/or fuel economy with regular, so they covered their behinds by changing the documentation before getting sued or slapped by the EPA. KIA/Hyundai is very familiar with how costly false advertising of fuel economy can be...

OR, Kia recognized the competition mostly requires premium fuel and wants the same mystic.

The human psyche assumes a tie between premium performance, premium price, and premium fuel.

 

[V10enomous]

I honestly think that the premium fuel requirement hurts Stinger sales. It seems silly that the optima with the same engine in the higher trim level doesn't require it. While the Stinger is marketed as competition for the imported performance cars and deservedly so, most of it's competition comes from right across the showroom floor from the Optima at $10k less. Most folks looking at Kia's are value conscious... Folks who pop for the 3.3 TT probably don't care as much but even my Ram truck with a 400hp Hemi runs on regular...

 

[Jimmer]

I honestly think that the premium fuel requirement hurts Stinger sales. It seems silly that the optima with the same engine in the higher trim level doesn't require it. While the Stinger is marketed as competition for the imported performance cars and deservedly so, most of it's competition comes from right across the showroom floor from the Optima at $10k less. Most folks looking at Kia's are value conscious... Folks who pop for the 3.3 TT probably don't care as much but even my Ram truck with a 400hp Hemi runs on regular...

I never considered the Optima. Front Wheel Drive, no AWD, lacks cargo space. Good looking, but not close to gorgeous.

Not sure how it competes with the RWD/rear wheel bias AWD Hatchback very fast Stinger.

 

[MisterMac]

I honestly think that the premium fuel requirement hurts Stinger sales. It seems silly that the optima with the same engine in the higher trim level doesn't require it. While the Stinger is marketed as competition for the imported performance cars and deservedly so, most of it's competition comes from right across the showroom floor from the Optima at $10k less. Most folks looking at Kia's are value conscious... Folks who pop for the 3.3 TT probably don't care as much but even my Ram truck with a 400hp Hemi runs on regular...

Premium fuel is NOT required, only RECOMMENDED.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Premium fuel is NOT required, only RECOMMENDED.

Unless regular where you live is under 87, then you have to use at least midgrade (87).

 

[MisterMac]

Unless regular where you live is under 87, then you have to use at least midgrade (87).

Merlin, things are different in most of the USA, the flatlands. In most of the USA, regular is 87, mid grade is 89, and anything higher is known as premium. The Stinger only requires regular, no matter where that is. In my neck of the woods, 86 is regular. However, 86 at my elevation is 87 at sea level....

 

[MerlintheMad]

Merlin, things are different in most of the USA, the flatlands. In most of the USA, regular is 87, mid grade is 89, and anything higher is known as premium. The Stinger only requires regular, no matter where that is. In my neck of the woods, 86 is regular. However, 86 at my elevation is 87 at sea level....

Why would Kia stipulate 87 as a minimum? I agree that higher altitudes alter things. But 87 is 87. I just put premium in no matter where I am.

 

[MisterMac]

Why would Kia stipulate 87 as a minimum? I agree that higher altitudes alter things. But 87 is 87. I just put premium in no matter where I am.

The fuel doesn't change, the ability of it to combust changes with altitude. It's another mathematical formula.

 

[Clearly Canadian]

I’m adding fuel octane to my list of things never to get into discussions about. It’s as fruitless as talking about religion or politics!

 

[SteveCo]

... or engine oil.

 

[V10enomous]

Premium fuel is NOT required, only RECOMMENDED.

They should probably just say... Uses Regular or Premium Fuel... at least for the 2.0. I have to admit that I wasn't sure that the dealer was being honest when he said it could use regular or if he was just trying to make the sale. People don't want to invest in a car and then not follow the "Recommendations". In Florida it's about a 65 cents difference for premium and in NJ it's closer to a dollar more. Regular is hovering around $2 now but when it gets up around $4 then the extra money for premium is an even bigger thorn.

 

[Marc Collins]

They should probably just say... Uses Regular or Premium Fuel... at least for the 2.0. I have to admit that I wasn't sure that the dealer was being honest when he said it could use regular or if he was just trying to make the sale. People don't want to invest in a car and then not follow the "Recommendations". In Florida it's about a 65 cents difference for premium and in NJ it's closer to a dollar more. Regular is hovering around $2 now but when it gets up around $4 then the extra money for premium is an even bigger thorn.

Yes, what does it use to achieve the advertised max power and fuel economy? Then, with that information, everyone can do what they please. We all know it can use regular like every other car on the road. Even those that require premium can use regular, you just won't get the advertised specs. Cars started using fuel adaptive texhnogy how many decades ago? Just give us the facts KIA, because otherwise this does turn into an endless faith-based circular conversation as @Clearly Canadian mentioned above

 

[BBB]

Edmund's makes lists of cars that are premium unleaded recommended and premium unleaded required. 2018 Stingers, all models, are listed as premium unleaded recommended, not required. Same for 2018 Genesis G80 and G90.

For 2019, neither the Stingers, nor G90, G80 or G70 are on either list.

Save Money and Stop Buying Premium Gasoline | Edmunds

'Edmunds has compiled two lists: Premium Recommended and Premium Required for vehicles from the 2012 to 2018 model years, with some 2019 models included. If your vehicle is on the Recommended list, you can try switching to regular unleaded gas. If your car is on the Required list, then you need to run premium gas. '

And my manual says 87.

That Edmonds article also states and I quote:

“For those driving premium-recommended cars, however, it's just a matter of driving moderately and avoiding acceleration with a wide-open throttle. Do that and you might never feel the difference between using premium and regular-grade gasoline. And neither will your car.”

Hmmm, seems like premium is a must should you drive it like you stole it!

 

[StungBlueGT2]

I’m adding fuel octane to my list of things never to get into discussions about. It’s as fruitless as talking about religion or politics!

Lol so true... However this seems like a topic where personal opinions shouldnt get in the way of facts.

Here’s the basic facts and everyone can make their own determinations on how to use them.
FACT= Using anything but Premium(91+) is NOT recommended by Kia.
FACT= The 3.3TT is a high performance engine was designed & tuned for Premium fuel. Fuel economy(MPG) and performance(HP&TQ) will suffer & decline using anything less than 91.
FACT= Our engine using 87 will produce noticeably less power & MPG because it’s being forced to protect itself from internal damage. Modern ECUs can monitor detonation ”knock” and detune ignition timing, A/F ratios & boost levels to help save the engine from unsafe conditions.
FACT= Higher octane premium fuels typically burn more efficiently & completely causing more power & MPG.
FACT= Non Premium Fuels almost always have less detergents & additives causing quicker carbon deposits & buildup.
FACT= Carbon deposits build rapidly which causes progressively dirtier & less efficient engines.
FACT= Less efficient engines make less power & fuel economy. The engine with lower octane has to work harder to produce the same acceleration.
FACT= Any money saved buying regular is significantly offset by the loss of engine efficiency & MPG. (Based on AAA fuel testing...I also explain why this drastically effects our high performance Stingers in Post 135 cited below)

Great explanation. He reinforces some of my points and gives a few things to consider that are much more relevant to our Stingers.

First, he shows how higher octane fuel will produce more power which means you can use less fuel for equal performance/acceleration.

Second, he shows that advancing timing increases power and new engines advance/decrease their timing based on knock which is directly tied to octane.

Lastly, the power gains were more significant over the whole powerband opposed to just peak power differences. Power under the curve is the most important!

You have to understand that all of these factors are much more significant to our high performance tuned twin turbo engines. There isn’t another similar engine tested by AAA however the closest comparisons showed the most dramatic gains.

The F150 3.5T is the closest overall and the Mustang & Escalade V8s are more performance orientated. The F150 & Mustang both saw up to 8% better MPG and the Escalade saw almost 15%! The F150 gained 11HP and Mustang 9HP or 4.3% increases.

I believe our advanced DI 3.3TT would have similar if not better results than listed above. Using EPA estimates that would mean almost 2/3mpg city/hwy improvement and conservative 10-15HP difference just by using premium! For a 16g tank that’s 32/48mile gain or about a 2-3gallon savings depending how aggressive you drive. That’s almost a $8-$12/tank savings using premium and basically offsets any extra you pay vs regular.

I know these are all just rough estimates but I don’t understand going against manufacturers recommendations to lose 10-15HP and not really see much cost savings. Using anything less than premium fuel shouldn’t even be a discussion on a $50k high performance twin turbo GT, but to each their own..

Lastly, the Stinger operating manual itself says:"For optimal engine performance, we recommend you use an unleaded gasoline which has an octane rating of RON (Research Octane Number) 95/AKI (Anti Knock Index) 91 or higher. Using Unleaded gasoline with an octane rating lower than RON 95 could result in loss of engine power and increase in fuel consumption."

I don’t know why this is even a debate as the facts speak for themselves. Unless you want your engine to constantly have to protect itself from detonation causing less power & lower MPG, just follow the recommendations of the actual manufacturer, not some opinions of people on the internet.

 

[Jimmer]

Lol so true... However this seems like a topic where personal opinions shouldnt get in the way of facts.

Here’s the basic facts and everyone can make their own determinations on how to use them.
FACT= Using anything but Premium(91+) is NOT recommended by Kia.
FACT= The 3.3TT is a high performance engine was designed & tuned for Premium fuel. Fuel economy(MPG) and performance(HP&TQ) will suffer & decline using anything less than 91.
FACT= Our engine using 87 will produce noticeably less power & MPG because it’s being forced to protect itself from internal damage. Modern ECUs can monitor detonation ”knock” and detune ignition timing, A/F ratios & boost levels to help save the engine from unsafe conditions.
FACT= Higher octane premium fuels typically burn more efficiently & completely causing more power & MPG.
FACT= Non Premium Fuels almost always have less detergents & additives causing quicker carbon deposits & buildup.
FACT= Carbon deposits build rapidly which causes progressively dirtier & less efficient engines.
FACT= Less efficient engines make less power & fuel economy. The engine with lower octane has to work harder to produce the same acceleration.
FACT= Any money saved buying regular is significantly offset by the loss of engine efficiency & MPG. (Based on AAA fuel testing...I also explain why this drastically effects our high performance Stingers in Post 135 cited below)

Lastly, the Stinger operating manual itself says:"For optimal engine performance, we recommend you use an unleaded gasoline which has an octane rating of RON (Research Octane Number) 95/AKI (Anti Knock Index) 91 or higher. Using Unleaded gasoline with an octane rating lower than RON 95 could result in loss of engine power and increase in fuel consumption."

I don’t know why this is even a debate as the facts speak for themselves. Unless you want your engine to constantly have to protect itself from detonation causing less power & lower MPG, just follow the recommendations of the actual manufacturer, not some opinions of people on the internet.[/QUOTE]
Because some of the manuals, like mine, say 87. Because Edmund's lists vehicles that are premium required and premium recommended and 2018 Stinger is recommended, not required. 2019 Stingers, according to Edmunds, is neither recommended or required.

So, um, those are actual facts. I still alternate, mostly using 91 or higher.

 

[SteveCo]

This is beating a dead horse - over and over again.

The FACT is that depending on the location, significant money can be saved using regular fuel instead of premium. Measurable gains (if any) in either power or mileage will vary with operating conditions, altitude, temperature, etc. The engine isn't damaged running on regular fuel, and KIA clearly states that it meets the engine's minimum requirements.

If someone wants the maximum output from the motor they can run premium, if they aren't concerned with that they can run regular. They don't need to follow anyone's opinion, they can read it directly from the owner's manual.

 

[Marc Collins]

I don’t know why this is even a debate as the facts speak for themselves. Unless you want your engine to constantly have to protect itself from detonation causing less power & lower MPG, just follow the recommendations of the actual manufacturer, not some opinions of people on the internet.

Because some of the manuals, like mine, say 87. Because Edmund's lists vehicles that are premium required and premium recommended and 2018 Stinger is recommended, not required. 2019 Stingers, according to Edmunds, is neither recommended or required.

So, um, those are actual facts. I still alternate, mostly using 91 or higher.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Almost nothing in that previous post was fact, nor did it add anything that hasn't already been said at least 10 times already in this thread.

There is one.and only one missing fact that matters to anyone debating this issue for themsleves, i.e., deciding which octane they PREFER to use, since any will do. What is the power output and fuel economy results at different octane? How much difference is there?

To repeat myself ad nauseum, instead of wasting time in this thread repeating the same points over and over again, contact KIA and ask/demand that they reveal the missing fact. Then everyone can go away and choose what to do with the one relevant piece of information necessary to make a decision.

Sorry, but it matters if the difference is 10% versus 2‰ versus zero. Unfortunately, the real answer could be anywhere in that range and only KIA or a volunteer willing to spend major dollars to do multiple controlled experiment dyno runs can answer the question.

 

[eflyguy]

FACT

You are entitled to your personal opinions, of course, but your versions of some of those "facts" are just that. Thx for playing.