AWD or RWD? (split from new member question)

[Menissalt]

(Oh, and the RWD is not "faster", it is quicker, which is not the same thing at all; a whole two or three tenths quicker zero to sixty. If you really want to shine at the drag strip, then by all means go RWD only; those venues are a Must Have RWD.)

Some people pay thousands to shave off 1-3 tenths of a second off 0-60 or the quarter mile, so if one is quicker then yes it's also faster. It's also faster on the track:

Marginally faster isn't everything though. Based on what Showkhin has actually said he would probably want to get the RWD but should just drive one of each. The RWD with its LSD will feel more fun to car people but not everyone will pick up on that.

So, Showkhin. You probably want the RWD based on what you've told us. There's some good info and viewpoints shared by everyone here. Knowing all this just go drive them and go with what you like best knowing what you now know.

 

[Kamauxx]

(Oh, and the RWD is not "faster", it is quicker, which is not the same thing at all;

What???

RWD may not be faster. But AWD is slower.

See @Showkhin? Bragging rights.

 

[MerlintheMad]

What???

LOL! Exactly what I expected from Camo if I got a response. "I can't understand a word you say when you mumble", would have been another likely rejoinder (quoting Willie Wonka). Some people simply don't operate in shared universes. A track guy/gal will not be able to ignore a few hundredths of a second; will lose sleep over it; will pay thousands of dollars in pursuit of it, etc.. And Etc.

The OP stated clearly that he's not a "crazy" car guy. So none of that quest for speed (aka acceleration specifically, when comparing AWD and RWD; a better driver on a road course is going to turn the differences between AWD and RWD into practically nothing) means anything in daily driving fun. On the freeway/hwy, you are not going to realize the added expense of the quest for a few hundredths or even tenths. It won't show up at all to human senses. The clock has become your god. It all starts with the decision between AWD and RWD: practicality and safety versus hanging the rear end out and making smoke; because in this case, neither car is going to the track; and from a stop light or tail chasing on the freeway, the AWD is both safer, more drivable and withal just as "quick" (allowing for a few exceptional encounters, where even the RWD Stinger would probably lose out too).

 

[MisterMac]

I love quick, but I love safety more. I chose the AWD because if there is ever a chance I'll need the higher level of sure-footedness, to bring me and or my family home alive, then I wanted to be sure I had it.

Rain, snow, sleet, sand, oily residue on the road, or, the need to quickly react to swerve to miss an idiot and still have greater stability drove me to buy the AWD.

On the financial side, AWD and 4WD are features that typically hold most of their initial value on resale and trade.

 

[NickUK]

Also worth noting that the RWD is a bit lighter by 194 pounds. That plus the LSD (Limited Slip Differential) makes it faster and a bit more fun. You do lose out on the heated steering wheel though. For some reason that's only on the AWD.

Kia is also testing an updated platform with a heavily rear biased AWD with LSD (Limited Slip Differential) for a future models but haven't confirmed it'll come to market yet.

RWD Stingers in the UK at least have heated steering wheels (which my gf likes to flick on when i'm not looking, to wind me up!) so it's odd how it got cut form the US market for RWD versions..

 

[MerlintheMad]

RWD Stingers in the UK at least have heated steering wheels (which my gf likes to flick on when i'm not looking, to wind me up!) so it's odd how it got cut form the US market for RWD versions..

That is just one in a rather annoying list of "cuts" to US trims. We hear of Stingers just north of us getting all kinds of features not available at all in the US, and that makes no sense whatsoever. The MY19 made up for most or all of those MY18 shortcomings. Kia is, strange.

 

[Helo58]

If you don't need the AWD, and a good set of snow tires will do the same for you, why have the added complexity of an AWD system? AWD has more parts to break which is one of the reasons I like my base GT.

 

[MerlintheMad]

If you don't need the AWD, and a good set of snow tires will do the same for you, why have the added complexity of an AWD system? AWD has more parts to break which is one of the reasons I like my base GT.

Imho, with this car, that is a pointless concern. There are already so many systems and pieces and parts to "fail" that the few added to the front wheels are not likely to make or break before something else; or ever, for that matter. Kia knows how to do FWD. And with their latest cars they demonstrate that they know reliability. Otherwise they would not score so high on ratings like JD Power. It isn't AWD vs RWD that is the most concerning: it is technology (computer/electronics, gadgetry) that plagues individuals with bugs and inconsistencies. Kia loves to push the cutting edge with the Stinger. But the price is annoyance, or occasionally worse.

"Electronically controlled suspension" is a case in point: It is what makes AWD safer, by regulating suspension stiffness, brakes and power to each wheel. But how does all of that work if the tech starts to have "issues"? What is the driver's first clue? Is s/he accustomed to the handling by depending on the feel through the tech? If so, then a failure could result in loss of control if driving on the edge.

 

[Menissalt]

"Electronically controlled suspension" is a case in point: It is what makes AWD safer, by regulating suspension stiffness, brakes and power to each wheel. But how does all of that work if the tech starts to have "issues"? What is the driver's first clue? Is s/he accustomed to the handling by depending on the feel through the tech? If so, then a failure could result in loss of control if driving on the edge.

This isn't limited to the AWD and isn't really a safety feature, it's a comfort/performance feature

 

[MerlintheMad]

In any situation the AWD will have more grip while on the gas vs FWD/RWD, making it more slip resistant by comparison in this one situation. Short of that the safety is the same. If safety is more of your goal, try out both still, but you'll probably want the AWD if the added cost doesn't matter to you.

"On the gas" isn't dependent when corning solely on the gas pedal. Cars equipped with ECS and the interfacing tech that controls brakes and power will monitor the needs of each individual wheel and respond with a complex of stiffness, power and brake, all independent of what the driver does with the brakes or accelerator. That means that when cornering as speed, with your foot off the gas, power is still going to each wheel as the technology deems "necessary" at that instant. So grip is always maximized by what the car does, not just what you do. If you go bare bones basic RWD, "old school" as it were, then none of what AWD does best is under consideration when comparing the two.

 

[MerlintheMad]

This isn't limited to the AWD and isn't really a safety feature, it's a comfort/performance feature

This reply seems like an exercise in semantics. Isn't safety and performance the same thing for the most part, when we are talking about handling?

 

[Menissalt]

"On the gas" isn't dependent when corning solely on the gas pedal. Cars equipped with ECS and the interfacing tech that controls brakes and power will monitor the needs of each individual wheel and respond with a complex of stiffness, power and brake, all independent of what the driver does with the brakes or accelerator. That means that when cornering as speed, with your foot off the gas, power is still going to each wheel as the technology deems "necessary" at that instant. So grip is always maximized by what the car does, not just what you do. If you go bare bones basic RWD, "old school" as it were, then none of what AWD does best is under consideration when comparing the two.

This reply seems like an exercise in semantics. Isn't safety and performance the same thing for the most part, when we are talking about handling?

After some quick research it does seem that ECS is for safety as well. To call RWD bare bones is a stretch when talking about the GT1/GT2 though as they come with ECS as well. ECS is "just" suspension and you seem to be mixing it with traction control in your first reply, not that they don't work in tandem it make a better ride.

ECS and traction control work on both AWD and RWD GT1/GT2 Stingers.

I think what you're getting at is RWD has a mechanical limited slip differential where the AWD doesn't so the AWD can modulate all 4 wheels independently as needed for a safer drive on top having more traction while on the gas.

Not trying to say you're wrong about anything or start an argument. You actually helped me learn more about ECS.

 

[MerlintheMad]

ECS is "just" suspension and you seem to be mixing it with traction control in your first reply, not that they don't work in tandem it make a better ride.

True. I am using language that can be accused of conflating. But I am really talking about the "interface" of several computer monitored and controlled systems.

ECS and traction control work on both AWD and RWD GT1/GT2 Stingers.

I think I knew that before. But the basic Stinger and GT have no ECS, and as far as I know neither one have the other safety/performance suspension features either.

I think what you're getting at is RWD has a mechanical limited slip differential where the AWD doesn't so the AWD can modulate all 4 wheels independently as needed for a safer drive on top having more traction while on the gas.

Yes, that is what I am getting at. RWD will not, of course, have any power monitoring to the front wheels. So AWD having that will make it safer and perform better cornering, even with foot off the gas, than RWD. This would not make a lap time any quicker; and as already pointed out, being lighter and more nimble, the RWD will lap faster with the same driver at the wheel of either car. But on the road, daily driving, road trips, 99% of drivers are going to benefit more from AWD. RWD will confer no benefit whatsoever, but might be more fun, at least as a placebo effect!

 

[Menissalt]

In the future we might get the best of both worlds with Kia's CK D-AWD prototype. It adds the same LSD to the rear axle of the AWD system and adds two new driving modes that allows 13:87 and 7:93 torque split between front and rear axles, respectively.

Sharper Stinger: Testing Kia's upcoming performance-tuned AWD

 

[Grayt 8]

Just from following the heavily tuned crowd, if you ever suspect you will want to do performance tuning that will push the limits of the stock turbos or beyond, it's looking more and more like AWD is the way to go.

At around stock power levels the RWD is faster in every scenario, but once you get up to 100 whp+ over stock, the RWD is not putting the power down as effectively.

If/ when hybrid and big turbos come around, I'm almost certain the AWD will be a better choice (although RWD might be more fun still).

Just a consideration though as not too many go that crazy with power.

It seems RWD is ever so slightly faster on prepped track surfaces with good drivers. I think the AWD would prove to be faster in lots of situations in the real world, even at stock HP levels.

 

[westcoastGT]

Porsche 911 4S are not designed with AWD for snow ,its all about control and performance ..............

 

[Tonkabob]

Just from following the heavily tuned crowd, if you ever suspect you will want to do performance tuning that will push the limits of the stock turbos or beyond, it's looking more and more like AWD is the way to go.

At around stock power levels the RWD is faster in every scenario, but once you get up to 100 whp+ over stock, the RWD is not putting the power down as effectively.

If/ when hybrid and big turbos come around, I'm almost certain the AWD will be a better choice (although RWD might be more fun still).

Just a consideration though as not too many go that crazy with power.

Agree. Looking like in the next 6 months modified AWD will be faster than modified RWDs. On the Street they already are (when modified)

 

[Jwolf]

Agree. Looking like in the next 6 months modified AWD will be faster than modified RWDs. On the Street they already are (when modified)

I think 6 months is realistic. Maybe even sooner if Tork's stage 1+ tune ends up working out.

One thing I will say about RWD though is if you are a skilled driver, the RWD will feel more rewarding when pushed to the limit, especially at higher power levels. Maybe not faster, and definitely not safer, but if you can push a 600 rwhp to the limit you will feel like a god

 

[Helo58]

Keep in mind that each corner of the car has only so much grip to give. Any amount of intervening "nannies" such as computers, sensors, and all-wheel drive will not increase the ultimate grip of the tire itself. In the RWD configuration, the rear tires "drive" or propel the car only and the front tires turn or steer the car only. This was done intentionally for weight transfer reasons. When accelerating, weight transfers rearward increasing downforce (thereby traction) on the rear tires. During braking as you approach a turn, the weight transfers forward increasing front-end downforce and thereby traction during the turn maneuver. Each end of the RWD car can devote the maximum amount of grip for the intended purpose. The AWD divides front end grip between steering and acceleration increasing the chances of overwhelming the front tires resulting in understeer.

If you are concerned with such things, the AWD system is heavier and because of the increased driveline losses will result in lower gas mileage than the RWD counterpart. In a real world setting, a RWD car with dedicated winter tires will outperform an AWD car on summer or all-season tires in the snow for most cases. So if you are drag-racing in the rain or doing off-road rally racing you made a great choice with AWD. Otherwise, the case for AWD weight, mileage reduction, complexity, and added cost is hard to make.

 

[TimS]

If you are concerned with such things, the AWD system is heavier and because of the increased driveline losses will result in lower gas mileage than the RWD counterpart. In a real world setting, a RWD car with dedicated winter tires will outperform an AWD car on summer or all-season tires in the snow for most cases. So if you are drag-racing in the rain or doing off-road rally racing you made a great choice with AWD. Otherwise, the case for AWD weight, mileage reduction, complexity, and added cost is hard to make.

How much improvement in MPG are we talking? Kia themselves lists both the AWD and RWD versions at 19/25 - no difference. I would assume the 'real world' differences would be negligible at best. In fact, in a real-world test, Car and Driver found the difference in MPG between AWD and RWD to be 'small to none', and both models exceeded their listed MPG ratings by slight margins.

Better grip is still better grip, no matter how you spin it. Comparing RWD with winter tires vs AWD with summer tires seems kinda nit-picky. If you're going that route, what performance changes would there be for the same two vehicles on dry pavement (RWD with snow, AWD with summer?).

As for the complexity angle - I can't find any hard data on Stinger AWD issues yet. Sure, the 'potential' is there, but is probably marginal at best.

-Tim