Buying a piggyback... what one?

[ScottM]

Not really, because Apple can more or less do everything Android can. It's more like JB4 is Android, and RaceChip is a 2003 Motorola Flip phone. You can still make a phone call on it. But it's night and day in terms of features and functions.

My whole point was that you dont see a racechip tuner out in the shop thrashing his wrench showing the folks what he is installing or how he is modding the car
You see glamor shots with racechips...you see slick photos and videos..not realistic installs or anyone working with a car like you see Terry out there showing installs and how to actually work on the jb4....its laffable when you look at the glamor team shot of the race chip crew....a hundred people of which maybe theres a few that even know how to open the hood of the car....racechip sells the sizzle....not the steak..is all i meant in my post .. .Wash

It's funny because I first read the vendors response and he talks about how JB4 is iPhone like...which to me is all sizzle and marketing and then mentions the flip phone that basically gets the job done. I then see a comment about how racechip is about the sizzle and not the steak. So, which is it? iPhone which is pretty much sizzle and expensive for no reason or is it steak?

In any event, I'm personally not a big fan of a vendor who talks trash "...RaceChip is a 2003 Motorla flip phone" when trying to build up his/her brand. Speaks volumes about their solid marketing approach.

 

[Kato_the_kia_stinger]

I just go for proven results. I’ve seen, and then experienced for myself, results for the JB4 at the track. I like real world results. Two other “similar” companies probably have great products too. But I would have to see more than dyno sheets to judges.

 

[Terry@BMS]

It's funny because I first read the vendors response and he talks about how JB4 is iPhone like...which to me is all sizzle and marketing and then mentions the flip phone that basically gets the job done. I then see a comment about how racechip is about the sizzle and not the steak. So, which is it? iPhone which is pretty much sizzle and expensive for no reason or is it steak?

The iPhone is historically one of the most technically advanced pieces of phone hardware out there and the industry leader. You can make a phone call with a 2003 Motorola flip phone, it's arguably easy to use, and cheap. But you can't surf the web, can't run navigation, can't run apps. In this analogy the tuning is just really limited without CANbus, fuel control, etc. And no amount of marketing is going to make flip phone comparable to an iPhone just like no amount of marketing is going to make RaceChip comparable to the JB4. FWIW I prefer to think of the JB4 as an android phone because of our reasonable pricing and flexible interface.

 

[xot1]

I just bought a lap3 chip second hand.

Trying it tomorrow.

 

[ScottM]

The iPhone is historically one of the most technically advanced pieces of phone hardware out there and the industry leader. You can make a phone call with a 2003 Motorola flip phone, it's arguably easy to use, and cheap. But you can't surf the web, can't run navigation, can't run apps. In this analogy the tuning is just really limited without CANbus, fuel control, etc. And no amount of marketing is going to make flip phone comparable to an iPhone just like no amount of marketing is going to make RaceChip comparable to the JB4. FWIW I prefer to think of the JB4 as an android phone because of our reasonable pricing and flexible interface.

"Historically" is the keyword. And that is history, they aren't the leader anymore. And I don't mean financially, I mean by capability standards. But honestly, I'm sure neither one of us focused on the comparison, just the facts.

My main point;

You may have the better product, but I don't look at a website and say "wow, it's got guys with greasy hands doing stuff...their product is on point!" I just think that's silly. I also believe that a vendor speaking negatively about a competitors product via comparisons is silly as well. If your product is so good, talk about it. Talk about it. Talk about it. Nothing needs to be said about any other product. That show's weakness.

I mean I don't talk about how awesome I am, while at the same time saying why you aren't awesome. My awesomeness stands and towers without comparison.

 

[Terry@BMS]

I've learned over the years not everyone is going to like a more aggressive marketing style. But I've also learned if we don't clearly explain what our products do that other similar looking products don't do, customers won't understand why ours works better, is a better value, etc. We always try to walk the line as best we can knowing we'll never please everyone.

 

[ScottM]

I've learned over the years not everyone is going to like a more aggressive marketing style. But I've also learned if we don't clearly explain what our products do that other similar looking products don't do, customers won't understand why ours works better, is a better value, etc. We always try to walk the line as best we can knowing we'll never please everyone.

You should write hallmark cards!

You are right though, it's how you're team does what it does and it must work. In any event, we shall agree to disagree on styles. And that is how and why the worlds spins.

 

[washguy]

It's funny because I first read the vendors response and he talks about how JB4 is iPhone like...which to me is all sizzle and marketing and then mentions the flip phone that basically gets the job done. I then see a comment about how racechip is about the sizzle and not the steak. So, which is it? iPhone which is pretty much sizzle and expensive for no reason or is it steak?

Scott Nope cant let ya pull this stunt.....I posted What I thought about the products...not anyone else but lil ol Me....that post was My Post.... You cant come along, and make a choose this or choose that....from two different posters ..and merge the two as in its gotta be a this or that... .. .Im raising the BS Flag on ya ! Wash

 

[ScottM]

Scott Nope cant let ya pull this stunt.....I posted What I thought about the products...not anyone else but lil ol Me....that post was My Post.... You cant come along, and make a choose this or choose that....from two different posters ..and merge the two as in its gotta be a this or that... .. .Im raising the BS Flag on ya ! Wash

Actually, you posted what you thought about the website and how that should relate to a product....which I disagree with. But, that's just me, myself, and I. In any event, to each there own.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

I normally don't step into these kinds of bouts, but I have been around other vendors in other car communities, and this thread demonstrates a common problem that turns me off from some vendors.

Long story short, I would choose Lap3 over JB4 simply because of how toxic the majority of JB4 users are and how this mostly comes from how BMS uses "competitive" (read: negative) marketing on the forums to attract buyers. Watching how JB4 owners and BMS jump into threads on competing products just to bluntly tell someone to get a JB4 has a sort of snobbish "clique" to it: something I've noticed from BMS' posts as well. The way BMS sells their JB4 builds a type of community I don't want to be a part of. I've quietly been watching vendors and the types of people that are both adamant and disappointed in each's products, and while BMS responds well to those who need help with their products, they respond absolutely poorly to competition and similar mindsets in the community fend for them. All of this is under the guise of keeping it "real", but it really comes off as juvenile.

Think about how us car enthusiasts always make fun of Mustang drivers. Yet, a GT 5.0 is nothing to laugh at: it's an excellent car for the buck (and it sounds better than we ever will!). But most of us probably don't want to be part of that community because we just imagine people wiping out in fast food parking lots from a failed burnout or donut. Sometimes the type of people that own a product are just as important as the quality of the product itself. Watching BMS and many of its owners with their chins up in the air over their JB4 just makes me not want to be a part of that.

 

[brancky3]

I normally don't step into these kinds of bouts, but I have been around other vendors in other car communities, and this thread demonstrates a common problem that turns me off from some vendors.

Long story short, I would choose Lap3 over JB4 simply because of how toxic the majority of JB4 users are and how this mostly comes from how BMS uses "competitive" (read: negative) marketing on the forums to attract buyers. Watching how JB4 owners and BMS jump into threads on competing products just to bluntly tell someone to get a JB4 has a sort of snobbish "clique" to it: something I've noticed from BMS' posts as well. The way BMS sells their JB4 builds a type of community I don't want to be a part of. I've quietly been watching vendors and the types of people that are both adamant and disappointed in each's products, and while BMS responds well to those who need help with their products, they respond absolutely poorly to competition and similar mindsets in the community fend for them. All of this is under the guise of keeping it "real", but it really comes off as juvenile.

Think about how us car enthusiasts always make fun of Mustang drivers. Yet, a GT 5.0 is nothing to laugh at: it's an excellent car for the buck (and it sounds better than we ever will!). But most of us probably don't want to be part of that community because we just imagine people wiping out in fast food parking lots from a failed burnout or donut. Sometimes the type of people that own a product are just as important as the quality of the product itself. Watching BMS and many of its owners with their chins up in the air over their JB4 just makes me not want to be a part of that.

Oh man you should see the Facebook groups for this car and how much everyone talks up Lap3 - it's the complete opposite of what you wrote. Everyone with a Lap3 on Facebook talks so much trash...

 

[washguy]

Scott I also posted this in another post...did you not read it fully?

My whole point was that you dont see a racechip tuner out in the shop thrashing his wrench showing the folks what he is installing or how he is modding the car
You see glamor shots with racechips...you see slick photos and videos..not realistic installs or anyone working with a car like you see Terry out there showing installs and how to actually work on the jb4....its laffable when you look at the glamor team shot of the race chip crew....a hundred people of which maybe theres a few that even know how to open the hood of the car....racechip sells the sizzle....not the steak..is all i meant in my post .. .Wash

This is the post im referring to....This one about the Sizzle .....then theres another my post about the Racechips website....which I wont even bother to quote
This post about the sizzle is mine ,NOT Terry's......this is the post where you took me ,and a post from Terry ( his post) and merged them into a choose this or that challenge post from you ...."sizzle or steak?" Now do you get it? Terry had nothing to do with my post Wash

 

[ZyroXZ2]

Oh man you should see the Facebook groups for this car and how much everyone talks up Lap3 - it's the complete opposite of what you wrote. Everyone with a Lap3 on Facebook talks so much trash...

About BMS, or ...?

 

[Terry@BMS]

Oh man you should see the Facebook groups for this car and how much everyone talks up Lap3 - it's the complete opposite of what you wrote. Everyone with a Lap3 on Facebook talks so much trash...

From my experience a little trash talking is all part of the fun of participating in the car forums and FaceBook pages. It's certainly not exclusive to JB4 owners although we do make up a large segment of the tuned Stinger community. The way I see it competition among tuning platforms drives innovation and benefits all of us.

If you think we're aggressive with our JB4 posts you should read what the flash tuners write regularly.

As to those who want to pay more for less features with alternative products simply of perceived forum decorum, more power to them. We need a few "alternative" tuned cars floating around for the rest of us to take on at the drag strip and runway events anyway.

 

[brancky3]

From my experience a little trash talking is all part of the fun of participating in the car forums and FaceBook pages. It's certainly not exclusive to JB4 owners although we do make up a large segment of the tuned Stinger community. The way I see it competition among tuning platforms drives innovation for everyone.

I agree, but so many people on Facebook are simply stating 'Lap3 pro-tuner is soooo much faster, look at this comparison of my timeslips from 4 months ago with different weather when my JB4 was on map 1 with 87 octane'. It makes it feel like the beta testers for the pro-tuner are being paid to market it, which I doubt is true, but it doesn't come across as professional.

I really like seeing competition but comparing two different products from two different dynos / users / cars / locations is worthless. Claiming a 'highest HP record' is worthless unless that record is being set in a controlled environment.

 

[Terry@BMS]

They are, it's all part of the game. New vendors to the market give away free or heavily discounted products in exchange for social media hype. Push things aggressively to claim a record to further build hype. We play the same game as well sometimes. Since their product costs so much more than ours they have to work harder to build demand for it. They are going to push and we're going to push back a bit, always in a polite and professional way.

One key difference I see is our tuning solution offers full logging right out of the box. So when our testers are testing things it's not change maps, floor car, hope it doesn't blow up. They are providing legitimate data (boost, timing, afr, fuel trims both banks, throttle, temperatures, etc, etc) that they can look at themselves and we can use to ensure the tuning is working as intended.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

Claiming a 'highest HP record' is worthless unless that record is being set in a controlled environment.

And here we go...

 

[brancky3]

And here we go...

brb getting my flamesuit on

 

[Kamauxx]

I normally don't step into these kinds of bouts, but I have been around other vendors in other car communities, and this thread demonstrates a common problem that turns me off from some vendors.

Long story short, I would choose Lap3 over JB4 simply because of how toxic the majority of JB4 users are and how this mostly comes from how BMS uses "competitive" (read: negative) marketing on the forums to attract buyers. Watching how JB4 owners and BMS jump into threads on competing products just to bluntly tell someone to get a JB4 has a sort of snobbish "clique" to it: something I've noticed from BMS' posts as well. The way BMS sells their JB4 builds a type of community I don't want to be a part of. I've quietly been watching vendors and the types of people that are both adamant and disappointed in each's products, and while BMS responds well to those who need help with their products, they respond absolutely poorly to competition and similar mindsets in the community fend for them. All of this is under the guise of keeping it "real", but it really comes off as juvenile.

Think about how us car enthusiasts always make fun of Mustang drivers. Yet, a GT 5.0 is nothing to laugh at: it's an excellent car for the buck (and it sounds better than we ever will!). But most of us probably don't want to be part of that community because we just imagine people wiping out in fast food parking lots from a failed burnout or donut. Sometimes the type of people that own a product are just as important as the quality of the product itself. Watching BMS and many of its owners with their chins up in the air over their JB4 just makes me not want to be a part of that.

That's a shit ton of moralizing from someone who just referred to the majority of JB4 users as "toxic".

Take a look in the mirror.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

That's a shit ton of moralizing from someone who just referred to the majority of JB4 users as "toxic".

Take a look in the mirror.

And here we go... again