Velossa Tech Designs Big Mouth Intake Snorkel: Initial Review

[Metalmania82]

Definitely diggin these. Looks like it should help funnel some more fresh air and help with the JB4 tune.

 

[VelossaTech]

Hi Dan, have a concern of water ingress together with the full frontal ram air. Am from tropical Singapore and we get big downpours quite often. Have you tested for this?

Hello Robs!

Water shouldnt be a problem. I live here in South Florida where it rains every day, no reported issues on our test mules that have had kits installed for a couple months now. The filter element does a great job of keeping moisture out, and don't worry about ingesting water in large quantities, it is nearly impossible unless you go through a 3 foot deep puddle at 60 mph, but I suppose if you did that you'd have other problems!

Best,

D/VT

 

[washguy]

No worries with this one for the stinger....ive got a vortex snorkel on the vette which is only a few inches off the road...and never have sucked up any water...don't drive thru puddles or hurricanes and you will be fine Wash

 

[KLR STINGER]

Looks great. Ordered two sets!

Would be nice to have an option of a filter bypass kit for k&n setup for track setup. Suck cold into the turbos directly from behind the grill

 

[Rango]

I agree on no problems with water ingress. I have a Jonny Tig CAI setup but did not install the grill flow. This grill intake option looks much better considering it curved and will protect your filter better from debris and water. With my JT filter facing forward, that is even more protection from water.

 

[Audible Silence]

That's a large filter

 

[Tonkabob]

No, but you did miss the part where I said I’ll be installing them this weekend.

Yes they emailed me an install manual. I read over it and don’t remember having to tap any holes, should utilize existing hardware.

They do say to remove the radiator shroud and leave it off to avoid cutting or fabrication but I’m going to try and get both to work together.

You can keep the radiator shroud but only if you cut two large holes in them.

 

[DaJackson]

You can keep the radiator shroud but only if you cut two large holes in them.

That’s the plan

 

[Tonkabob]

That’s the plan

I would go that route too. Using two large drilled holes and connecting the holes with a hand saw is easy.

Removing the stock snorkle and making hole even without the big mouth snorkle should help.

 

[DaJackson]

I would go that route too. Using two large drilled holes and connecting the holes with a hand saw is easy.View attachment 13313

Removing the stock snorkle and making hole even without the big mouth snorkle should help.

Because of the size of the snorkle I’ll probably need to cut a U shape out of the top of the shroud. Nothing a Dremel can’t handle.

 

[StruttinSoul]

Let me know how it works out for you - I was kind of waiting for someone to do that before deciding to buy these since I wanted to keep the shroud.

 

[SKStinger]

So what added benefit (other than looks) would this Big Mouth snorkel add over and above the cutting of holes in the factory shroud? Wouldn't the shape of the factory shroud help funnel the air into the intake in basically the same way?

 

[Tonkabob]

So what added benefit (other than looks) would this Big Mouth snorkel add over and above the cutting of holes in the factory shroud? Wouldn't the shape of the factory shroud help funnel the air into the intake in basically the same way?

You would get a bit of a ram effect with the big mouth and less turbulent airflow. Theoretically.

 

[VelossaTech]

You would get a bit of a ram effect with the big mouth and less turbulent airflow. Theoretically.

Correct, and good question! Cutting a hole in the shroud will allow unguided dynamic pressure to build up which will help 'some'. Having a duct capture all the momentum of the air and physically delivering it to the airbox/filter is the proper way to create the ram effect. In layman terms, you dont want the engine to have to fight for air, you want to deliver it on a silver platter (low pressure drop).

 

[DaJackson]

Sorry for the delay in getting this written up.

This weekend I installed the snorkels which was fairly easy even with trying to save as much of the shroud as possible. The hardest part was removing the clips for the wireing harness as there isn’t much room to get a tool in there to pry them out but that took no more than 5 min.

I taped everything up when removing the bumper to try and keep from having any paint issues.


After getting the bumper off I found some interesting things stuck to my intercooler including this butt and a dragonfly.



Here you can see the stock snorkle and how it comes up from behind the radiator shroud. This is when I realized that saving and of the upper scoops wasn’t going to happen. However there are still guides for the lower half of the radiator that I wanted to save.



With the shroud out this is where I cut it to retain the lower parts. This keeps two of the bolts per side so it’s still firmly attached. It also keeps all the mounting holes for the wireing harness that runs across the front.

To cut the shroud I used a combo of snips and a Dremel. The plastic is fairly brittle so the snips would cause the plastic to crack a bit further than where it was cut. This can’t be seen when the bumper is on so no need to make it look pretty.



Here you can see the snorkels installed with the lower shroud



Close up of the shroud and the snorkels.



Bumper reattached



I wanted to do some testing of air temps before and after install. Unfortunately I started baseline testing on Saturday where it was about 85 degrees and by the time I got the readings it had dropped to 78. And Sunday after the snorkels were installed it was in the lower 90s.

To do the testing I hooked up my FireBoard that I use for smoking with 3 ambient temperature probes. One in the duct, one in the K&N air box behind the filter and one on the other side of the air box in the engine bay.



Here is a view of the probe in the duct from the front of the car with the snorkel off.



Here is a read out of the temperatures over a 20 min drive. As you can see the car started out at about 125-130 degrees. As soon as the car started moving at about 45mph the duct and filter temps drop below 100 degrees.

Each of the spikes is where I stopped for a light or traffic. All three temps would increase but as soon as the car started moving the duct and filter temps would immediately drop while the engine bay would slowly drop. Cruising at about 55mph the duct and filter temps got very close to ambient temp.

Also for those that thought the K&N mistakes didn’t do enough to block engine heat, you can see the filter is seeing ~30 degree cooler temps than the engine bay. The two probes were about 2” apart with just the K&N heat shield between them.



In addition to seeing he temperature changes just looking at the design installed you can see how there will be much more air traveling through the snorkel and over the filter which will help overcome heat soak.

Also I drove though a bit of a rain shower on the way home yesterday and the air box was dry. There was still water on the hood and grill as well as a few drops on the mouth of the snorkel but none in the air box.

 

[hummus]

Correct, and good question! Cutting a hole in the shroud will allow unguided dynamic pressure to build up which will help 'some'. Having a duct capture all the momentum of the air and physically delivering it to the airbox/filter is the proper way to create the ram effect. In layman terms, you dont want the engine to have to fight for air, you want to deliver it on a silver platter (low pressure drop).

Are the turbos ingesting any additional air versus the stock air guides? Seems like maybe a pressure difference at the turbo inlet would be interesting; any measurements there before and after smoothing the pathway with the snorkels?

Also would be interesting to know if the pressure changes behind the grille when installing the snorkels; if it drops, would that mean that the snorkels are capable of guiding more air than the aerodynamics of the car can supply?

 

[VelossaTech]

Are the turbos ingesting any additional air versus the stock air guides? Seems like maybe a pressure difference at the turbo inlet would be interesting; any measurements there before and after smoothing the pathway with the snorkels?

Also would be interesting to know if the pressure changes behind the grille when installing the snorkels; if it drops, would that mean that the snorkels are capable of guiding more air than the aerodynamics of the car can supply?

Hello!

One can't attain more dynamic pressure than is present as dictated by Bernoulli's principle. But, what we do with that pressure is the magic of a well designed flow path.

Pressure difference at the turbo dictates at what RPM the turbo attains a target mass flow rate. Or, at a particular mass flow rate (constant turbine RPM) there can only be one pressure ratio. With that said, increasing the inlet pressure to an undersized centrifugal compressor commonly found on cars today such as the Stinger, decreases turbine RPM for a load targeted tune or increases mass flow rate for a boost targeted tune.

Either way, you'll see some nice benefits to having an efficient front facing ram scoop. Your tune will dictate how it shows up, the engine nannies and types of tunes will 'feel' that the ambient pressure increased by a small amount and think the car is below sea level, or at a negative DA, for example.

Best,

D

 

[hummus]

Hello!

One can't attain more dynamic pressure than is present as dictated by Bernoulli's principle. But, what we do with that pressure is the magic of a well designed flow path.

Pressure difference at the turbo dictates at what RPM the turbo attains a target mass flow rate. Or, at a particular mass flow rate (constant turbine RPM) there can only be one pressure ratio. With that said, increasing the inlet pressure to an undersized centrifugal compressor commonly found on cars today such as the Stinger, decreases turbine RPM for a load targeted tune or increases mass flow rate for a boost targeted tune.

Either way, you'll see some nice benefits to having an efficient front facing ram scoop. Your tune will dictate how it shows up, the engine nannies and types of tunes will 'feel' that the ambient pressure increased by a small amount and think the car is below sea level, or at a negative DA, for example.

Best,

D

Interesting stuff, appreciate the info. What I'm wondering is, under what conditions are the snorkels removing a constraint to deliver this benefit? If the factory pieces are not flowing the available maximum from the area behind the grille, does that mean those who don't have snorkels will have pressure build up there, and if not, where does the pressure go? I gather you have analyzed the airflow in that area when placing the openings for the snorkels.

With the snorkels, would you say that the car benefits more from increased flow rate or a reduction in turbulence?

The concept is clever, to be sure, and I have no reason to doubt they are worthwhile. I am just curious about the science behind them.

Also, when you refer to the compressor as undersized, are you referring specifically to the 3.3, or the 2.0T as well?

Thanks again and best wishes on this venture. Creating this specialized product for a small market, it's clear you are a genuine enthusiast, so hopefully you will inspire others.

 

[VelossaTech]

Interesting stuff, appreciate the info. What I'm wondering is, under what conditions are the snorkels removing a constraint to deliver this benefit? If the factory pieces are not flowing the available maximum from the area behind the grille, does that mean those who don't have snorkels will have pressure build up there, and if not, where does the pressure go? I gather you have analyzed the airflow in that area when placing the openings for the snorkels.

With the snorkels, would you say that the car benefits more from increased flow rate or a reduction in turbulence?

The concept is clever, to be sure, and I have no reason to doubt they are worthwhile. I am just curious about the science behind them.

Also, when you refer to the compressor as undersized, are you referring specifically to the 3.3, or the 2.0T as well?

Thanks again and best wishes on this venture. Creating this specialized product for a small market, it's clear you are a genuine enthusiast, so hopefully you will inspire others.

Thank you for the kind words! And yes I am an enthusiast first before anything!

To answer your question about the stock snorkels, they are pulling air from a dead cavity. The definition of a dead cavity is a place where air stagnated and dynamic pressure was lost to turbulence energy or momentum loss etc... when instead the momentum of the air could have been used to transport more air mass, which is what the ram ducts do.

The engine is always always always sucking. It pulls in air faster than can be rammed in from the big mouths, what the big mouths do is allow the ECU to suck air from a place of higher pressure, this pressure increases with the square of velocity of the car. Instead of pulling air from a dead cavity (stock inlets) that is essentially always at ambient pressure due to the loss of dynamic pressure because of the shroud in the way and how the stock snorkels are tucked up and away (picture coming), the air through the big mouths is moving at a high enough velocity such that it will stagnate at or near your air filter, and thats what the engine 'sees' as an increase in inlet absolute pressure. Note i said inlet absolute pressure because the engine will still be under vacuum with the ram ducting, just 'less vacuum' because the ducts are putting more of a positive value to the 'sucking' effect, this is a reduction in engine vacuum work and where power comes from and massflow comes from. Hope this makes sense!

 

[washguy]

Ah Yes....the ol pinwheel ,and blowing on it from different angles can speed it up or slow it down...hmmmm maybe even reverse it?....shows my age....lol
have todays kids even seen a pinwheel? Lots of drag and airflow stuff going on with a pinwheel....pucker up and blow Wash