Would i need toe and camber arms when i lower my car?

[alex_man120]

Seen on fb that I might need toe and camber arms to get better alignment if I do lower my car with springs. Post said it's due to too much length on the arms and not enough movement on the eccentric bolts. Is this true or no?

 

[Ozstung]

Yes you will need those.Personally i wouldn't lower it, i was lowered for 5 years just one big headache. Mates went up to 20" wheels instead and it looked good. I got tired of uneven tyre wear and when i moved to the country the roads shouted at me "Sell" . Go the 20" instead.

 

[Volfy]

Yes, once you lower this platform past a modest amount, the eccentric bolts will run out of adjustment to correct the excessive rear camber. The Megan arms are meant to offer additional adjustment beyond that. HOWEVER, be warned that the end result will only be as good as the tech doing the alignment correction. Not all alignment shops are comfortable - or competent enough to work - with aftermarket suspension setups. You should talk to your shop before buying those arms.

Another thing to consider too is that even a good alignment shop can only correct static camber. Both front and rear suspensions have dynamic camber gain built into their geometry, which is optimized for at or near stock ride height. This is the very reason your camber goes more negative the more the suspension is compressed/lowered. The more you deviate from stock ride height, the more out of whack the dynamic camber gain will get. Especially for MacPherson strut type suspensions, once the suspension articulation goes beyond a certain point, that dynamic camber gain will turn into camber LOSS. That will really mess up your car's corner handling.

For this reason, I myself prefer to keep lowering to a modest amount. So what is considered a modest amount, you ask? Well, take the eccentric bolt adjustment range as a clue. If you go much beyond that, you are venturing into territory the stock suspension geometry was never designed to accommodate.

Now then, if you are just lowering for the slammed look, then likely none of this matters to you. I see plenty of low riders tooling around scraping their front bumper chin and floor pan. So... some folks are perfectly happy with that. It's up to you.

 

[socalvn]

I lowered for looks originally but the performance gain was huge, my front spoiler clears all bumbs and those parking concrete stops bairly, occasionally there's a driveway I can't get into, but I never scrape on anything no marks on the bottom of my car. I would like to bag it on days

 

[alex_man120]

Yes, once you lower this platform past a modest amount, the eccentric bolts will run out of adjustment to correct the excessive rear camber. The Megan arms are meant to offer additional adjustment beyond that. HOWEVER, be warned that the end result will only be as good as the tech doing the alignment correction. Not all alignment shops are comfortable - or competent enough to work - with aftermarket suspension setups. You should talk to your shop before buying those arms.

Another thing to consider too is that even a good alignment shop can only correct static camber. Both front and rear suspensions have dynamic camber gain built into their geometry, which is optimized for at or near stock ride height. This is the very reason your camber goes more negative the more the suspension is compressed/lowered. The more you deviate from stock ride height, the more out of whack the dynamic camber gain will get. Especially for MacPherson strut type suspensions, once the suspension articulation goes beyond a certain point, that dynamic camber gain will turn into camber LOSS. That will really mess up your car's corner handling.

For this reason, I myself prefer to keep lowering to a modest amount. So what is considered a modest amount, you ask? Well, take the eccentric bolt adjustment range as a clue. If you go much beyond that, you are venturing into territory the stock suspension geometry was never designed to accommodate.

Now then, if you are just lowering for the slammed look, then likely none of this matters to you. I see plenty of low riders tooling around scraping their front bumper chin and floor pan. So... some folks are perfectly happy with that. It's up to

Hmm, good read. I bought the ark performance gtf springs. From the website it looks to be an inch drop. (.15 in the front) I'm going to guess it will be enough to buy the toe and camber arms?

 

[Daniel @ K8 Stinger Store]

Hmm, good read. I bought the ark performance gtf springs. From the website it looks to be an inch drop. (.15 in the front) I'm going to guess it will be enough to buy the toe and camber arms?

The Ark GT-F Springs aren't going to "slam" your car, so would I say these arms are absolutely necessary? No, but I would definitely recommend them to anybody looking to perfect their alignment. We don't currently have these listed on our website, but my team can help you out with discounted pricing via email:

Sales@K8StingerStore.com

 

[Volfy]

Hmm, good read. I bought the ark performance gtf springs. From the website it looks to be an inch drop. (.15 in the front) I'm going to guess it will be enough to buy the toe and camber arms?

If I have to guess... yeah, you'll probably need at least the camber arm.

Ark springs are pretty soft, so a lot depends on how heavy your car is. I don't have first hand experience. Maybe others that have can chime in. You can check the spring rate comparison here: OEM vs Eibach vs Ark Spring Rates To me, only the Eibach spring rates make sense. Any time you lower the car, you are effectively reducing the suspension travel by the same amount. The proper way is to increase the spring rate by a proportional amount to compensate for that reduced suspension travel. This is because load handling = spring rate x max suspension travel.

Even if one disregards max load handing, the main reason for lowering a car has traditionally been to enhance handling via two means:

1. lowering the CG
2. Stiffening the spring rates

Both will to reduce the roll moment (when cornering) and pitch moment (when accel/decel'ing)

Making lowering springs softer makes zero sense to me. Maybe they know something I don't. Either that, or improving handing is no longer the primary goal for lowering a car for a lot of folks these days. Me thinks that is probably more like it.

 

[alex_man120]

i wish i would have done more research, i never knew about the spring rates and how it affects the car. I was just in the understanding that the springs just lower the car a tad and thats it. Now, would it be better if I got coilcovers than springs?

 

[Volfy]

i wish i would have done more research, i never knew about the spring rates and how it affects the car. I was just in the understanding that the springs just lower the car a tad and thats it. Now, would it be better if I got coilcovers than springs?

That's like asking whether you should go with the 3.3T or the 2.5T. It's easy to say, yeah, go with the bigger engine and more HP. However, if a guy is really honest with himself, the real answer is: it depends.

Same goes for suspension mods. All depends on what you are trying to achieve, and how you drive your car. Just because mine is a 2.5T with Riaction coilovers doesn't mean that is the right for everyone. Coilovers offer a lot more adjustability than a set of lowering springs. That is great... if you know how to tweak those added variables. If you don't, your car could handle worse than if left stock. Or, it might do things contrary to what you expect, whether you realize or not.

Not to say you couldn't acquire the necessary competency to take advantage of coilovers. You need to go into it knowing what you don't know, the consequences of getting it wrong, and commit to getting it RIGHT... and do what it takes. I will say this... if you are not willing to spend weekends getting under the car and tweaking the coilovers, test driving the car extensively (preferably at the track or AutoX), and go back to tweak some more... I would think twice about going that route.

Anybody that tells you they can install and setup your coilovers in one shot... they are either BS'ing, or have zero clue about suspension tuning. Or are experts with decades of experience, including this particular platform.



Then again... if all you want to do is to lower your car to look cool, then forget what I said above. Get the coilovers, set the ride height to whatever looks good to you. And be happy.

 

[alex_man120]

That's like asking whether you should go with the 3.3T or the 2.5T. It's easy to say, yeah, go with the bigger engine and more HP. However, if a guy is really honest with himself, the real answer is: it depends.

Same goes for suspension mods. All depends on what you are trying to achieve, and how you drive your car. Just because mine is a 2.5T with Riaction coilovers doesn't mean that is the right for everyone. Coilovers offer a lot more adjustability than a set of lowering springs. That is great... if you know how to tweak those added variables. If you don't, your car could handle worse than if left stock. Or, it might do things contrary to what you expect, whether you realize or not.

Not to say you couldn't acquire the necessary competency to take advantage of coilovers. You need to go into it knowing what you don't know, the consequences of getting it wrong, and commit to getting it RIGHT... and do what it takes. I will say this... if you are not willing to spend weekends getting under the car and tweaking the coilovers, test driving the car extensively (preferably at the track or AutoX), and go back to tweak some more... I would think twice about going that route.

Anybody that tells you they can install and setup your coilovers in one shot... they are either BS'ing, or have zero clue about suspension tuning. Or are experts with decades of experience, including this particular platform.



Then again... if all you want to do is to lower your car to look cool, then forget what I said above. Get the coilovers, set the ride height to whatever looks good to you. And be happy.

Hmm, more than likely I'll stick with the springs. With this info, and talking to one of my coworkers, I'm going to stick the springs.

 

[Deviate]

Im gonna thow my useless 2cents In on the camber and toe arms. My understanding is they were offered up to help the guys and girls that wanted to run dumb low and still keep some kind of an alignment. Usually those that are bagged. Now you cant hold me to that statement, but i do remember finding that tid bit of info.

Im on bags and i really dont have an issue eating tires up. My alignment is actually pretty on point and i do a ton of driving. Now that said I need to be aired up pretty far in order to get full lock to lock in my turning raius.

Sorry...thats a whole lotta useless info for me to tell you im bagged and DO NOT have either set of arms and have a decent alignment . So do you need to be worried and run out and get them? Probably not, but once your alignmen is done if your not happy with it you have that option which is nice.

If i ever get a set it wont be for anything other than adding camber so i can lay the car out more. Along with front camber plates thrown into the mix.

 

[alex_man120]

So, i bought these...

Megan Racing Camber Arms Kia Stinger (2018-2022) Rear Kit

But, now looking at other websites, I probably bought the wrong ones because i have seen the same ones on other sites saying this is only for rwd stingers. (Mine is awd) would i still be able to use these or no?

 

[Thomby]

But, now looking at other websites, I probably bought the wrong ones because i have seen the same ones on other sites saying this is only for rwd stingers. (Mine is awd) would i still be able to use these or no?

On a RWD-based car, I can't think of anything that would key a set of rear camber arms to the RWD version only, since the AWD gear is up front (it's not like different versions swap to a diff-less subframe or anything).

I could see them only having a RWD car handy when they design/test, and labeling them RWD-only to be conservative. Since you already bought them, might as well test fit them (and report back for others!)

 

[Deviate]

So, i bought these...

Megan Racing Camber Arms Kia Stinger (2018-2022) Rear Kit

But, now looking at other websites, I probably bought the wrong ones because i have seen the same ones on other sites saying this is only for rwd stingers. (Mine is awd) would i still be able to use these or no?

So i gotta ask....outside of the obvious of wanting "perfect" alignment after dropping the car, why the must haves of the camber arms? I know that the our cars tend to go thru rears probably a little quicker than others but with my experience its not that bad. Are you planning on auto cross or anything? Maybe adding camber to get more grip?

Im not saying that it was a bad purchase by any means. But im on bags and have no real issues. Now i know im out of adjustment but im within decent specs and dont go thru tires due to too much camber.

 

[alex_man120]

So i gotta ask....outside of the obvious of wanting "perfect" alignment after dropping the car, why the must haves of the camber arms? I know that the our cars tend to go thru rears probably a little quicker than others but with my experience its not that bad. Are you planning on auto cross or anything? Maybe adding camber to get more grip?

Im not saying that it was a bad purchase by any means. But im on bags and have no real issues. Now i know im out of adjustment but im within decent specs and dont go thru tires due to too much camber.

I know about the tire wear issue, i want to just prolong it as much as possible since my car is a daily.

 

[alex_man120]

So I asked redline360 (where I bought the arms) and they replied that Megan racing can confirm the fitment for the upper camber arm on rwd, but not on awd. So should I just return the arm or see if it will work?