Will Kia feel pressure to change its name , or add a premium tier ?

[westcoastGT]

Kia’s problem is not design, is not quality, is not value, and especially now that the 2018 Stinger is arriving, is not performance. Perception is the problem. And it seems as though nothing the company does, from winning quality awards to selling a true full-size luxury car, allows it to shake its image as an inexpensive alternative to something you’d really rather drive.

I can write glowing reviews of Kias until my fingertips bleed, but that’s not going to convince you to consider one unless you’re the type of person who doesn’t care what other people think. That’s Kia’s challenge. Change that perception. And that’s why the 2018 Kia Stinger exists.

Styling and Design
If you’ve never considered any Kia to be cool, the Stinger provides cause for pause. Just look at it. Rakish and low-slung, the Stinger blends Kia’s handsome styling themes with classic long-hood, short-deck, rear-drive, gran turismo proportions. Also, like the Audi A5 Sportback and the BMW 4 Series Gran Coupe against which it will compete, the Stinger’s fastback roofline hides hatchback practicality.

Inside, the Stinger boasts aircraft-inspired design, upscale detailing, and in some models, lush Nappa leather seating. With few exceptions, materials easily support a price range spanning between the low 30s and the low 50s. Read more...

 

[Kia Stinger]

"Nissan might claim that it sells a 4-door sports car. Kia is selling the real deal."

Pretty good review. Thorough. It's a shame that cars like the K900 didn't cause a ruckus but that's because (in my opinion) they priced it too high. I think the price has come down a bit but I remember seeing the sticker at the Detroit Auto Show and it was about $72,000... That is just too much for a first year "Oh my God, it's expensive" Kia. Even Lexus let the original LS wear a low price tag to get people on board in the beginning.

In any event, now they have another opportunity with the Stinger - which is priced much more reasonably. Let's see how this goes...

 

[exodus]

It is pretty clear to me what is going on. Senior management at Kia and Hyundai are the same people. They are positioning Hyundai as the value brand, Genesis as the premium brand and Kia in between them. The telltale sign is that you can get Nappa leather on an Optima or Sorento but not on a Sonata or Santa Fe.

 

[Kia Stinger]

It is pretty clear to me what is going on. Senior management at Kia and Hyundai are the same people. They are positioning Hyundai as the value brand, Genesis as the premium brand and Kia in between them. The telltale sign is that you can get Nappa leather on an Optima or Sorento but not on a Sonata or Santa Fe.

This has been going on for a while. You can load up an Optima EX-L or SX-L with more top-end features than a Sonata. Are you sure about senior management? I haven't heard that. Hyundai may own a piece of Kia but they're competing companies...

 

[exodus]

This has been going on for a while. You can load up an Optima EX-L or SX-L with more top-end features than a Sonata. Are you sure about senior management? I haven't heard that. Hyundai may own a piece of Kia but they're competing companies...

Yes. Albert Biermann is one of them. That is why he is working on both the Stinger and the G70.

Middle management is different but senior management is the same.

"When it comes to driving talent we looked at this car from Bavaria [BMW], and when it came to luxury we looked at a car coming from the Stuttgart [Mercedes] area," said Albert Biermann, formerly with BMW's M division, now executive vice-president of engineering for Genesis, Hyundai and Kia. "We drove all kinds of cars in the segment – but in the end, you have to do your own thing."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glo...r-with-a-german-state-ofmind/article36300444/

 

[Kia Stinger]

Yes. Albert Biermann is one of them. That is why he is working on both the Stinger and the G70.

Middle management is different but senior management is the same.

"When it comes to driving talent we looked at this car from Bavaria [BMW], and when it came to luxury we looked at a car coming from the Stuttgart [Mercedes] area," said Albert Biermann, formerly with BMW's M division, now executive vice-president of engineering for Genesis, Hyundai and Kia. "We drove all kinds of cars in the segment – but in the end, you have to do your own thing."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glo...r-with-a-german-state-ofmind/article36300444/

Yes, both brands are sharing the same platform and the single platform was developed by one set of people.

 

[zoop]

KIA doesnt need to change their name they just need to change their logo. KIA just doesnt look nice as a logo.

 

[exodus]

" said Albert Biermann, formerly with BMW's M division, now executive vice-president of engineering for Genesis, Hyundai and Kia.

I read an article about Hyundai months ago and when they mentioned senior management for both companies was the same i thought that was a bit odd . Albert was the easiest example to pull up on Google.

 

[hej]

"Kia’s problem is not design, is not quality, is not value, and especially now that the 2018 Stinger is arriving, is not performance. Perception is the problem."

Going to go ahead and disagree with JDPA here. With all the decontenting they're doing to the US spec stinger, value actually is an issue and perception is wholly accurate.

 

[Kia Stinger]

" said Albert Biermann, formerly with BMW's M division, now executive vice-president of engineering for Genesis, Hyundai and Kia.

I read an article about Hyundai months ago and when they mentioned senior management for both companies was the same i thought that was a bit odd . Albert was the easiest example to pull up on Google.

Each brand has separate leadership at the very top. President. CEO. Chairman. CFO. Etcetera. Similar to how brands like Ford and GM do things. If the Buick Regal is built on the same platform as seven other cars - they're not going to have seven different people lead that team. That's where the similarity comes into play. The decision making is done by different people at each brand. Certain aspects of the business like the engineering of platforms is naturally handled by one person or one team. It wouldn't make sense any other way.

"Kia’s problem is not design, is not quality, is not value, and especially now that the 2018 Stinger is arriving, is not performance. Perception is the problem."

Going to go ahead and disagree with JDPA here. With all the decontenting they're doing to the US spec stinger, value actually is an issue and perception is wholly accurate.

They do definitely have an issue but you should try to see things from their viewpoint. They're launching two versions of the same platform in America: the Kia Stinger and the Genesis G70. They probably weren't aware of how well received the Stinger would actually be - and that's going to give the premium branded G70 a rough time moving forward - or WAS. In order for South Korean luxury cars to make an impact in America - the G70 needs to make a splash.

NOT saying it's right - or that any of this was the right way to handle things. However, there's a reason for everything and that reason is not just because they figure they can get more money out of American pockets - for less vehicle. They're scrambling. It was a mistake. But the remedy to that mistake is either the G70 or another car altogether. Some will go buy a Regal. Some will go buy a G70. Lesson learned.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

Evening, first post so be gentle on me.

Brand perception is a difficult one. Personally I buy the car not the brand.
My first BMW was when it was considered a left field choice. Only when company fleet managers caught onto better residual values than Ford / Vauxhall did sales really pick up. Alfa Romeo trashed their brand in the 70's / 80's with rusty cars and still now people will not buy them today because of perceived reliability problems - but they are fantastic cars. I was about to purchase my third Alfa the new Giulia...

However, on Monday I put down my deposit for a 3.3 RWD GTS (my first Kia). Brilliant car in all respects. Have already had some surprised faces when I tell them I am buying a Kia - normally from friends who drive the usual German brands.

Be proud to own the best car in class and the Kia brand will soon be perceived as it should be.
Not a fan of sub-brands so will not be sticking E badges on my car!

 

[Kia Stinger]

Evening, first post so be gentle on me.

Brand perception is a difficult one. Personally I buy the car not the brand.
My first BMW was when it was considered a left field choice. Only when company fleet managers caught onto better residual values than Ford / Vauxhall did sales really pick up. Alfa Romeo trashed their brand in the 70's / 80's with rusty cars and still now people will not buy them today because of perceived reliability problems - but they are fantastic cars. I was about to purchase my third Alfa the new Giulia...

However, on Monday I put down my deposit for a 3.3 RWD GTS (my first Kia). Brilliant car in all respects. Have already had some surprised faces when I tell them I am buying a Kia - normally from friends who drive the usual German brands.

Be proud to own the best car in class and the Kia brand will soon be perceived as it should be.
Not a fan of sub-brands so will not be sticking E badges on my car!

Welcome aboard, @Dick Dastardly! And thank you for signing up. So! You must be really excited! What is the Stinger replacing for you?

 

[Dick Dastardly]

Hi, thanks for the welcome.
I currently drive a VW Golf R - a real pocket rocket.
Just want something now with more room and a bit more refined - must be an age thing.
Funnily enough when I paid £30+K for a Golf everyone thought I was crazy (again brand perception) but now everyone raves about the R and price is never mentioned.

 

[Kia Stinger]

Hi, thanks for the welcome.
I currently drive a VW Golf R - a real pocket rocket.
Just want something now with more room and a bit more refined - must be an age thing.
Funnily enough when I paid £30+K for a Golf everyone thought I was crazy (again brand perception) but now everyone raves about the R and price is never mentioned.

The Golf R is a very nice car. I kinda love it - especially in whatever that dark blue is. But I see them in other colors and they still catch my eye. A great performance car for the money. I think the Stinger GT will be a great replacement considering you want something bigger and I'm assuming more luxurious. Yes, perception of these non-luxury brands really needs to change because they're making some really impressive products there days...

 

[Euljiro1ga]

What was the general perception of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura like when they first launched?

I would assume Toyota/Nissan/Honda were facing the same questions about if they can actually deliver luxury cars considering their brand and product history.

I am supporting Kia introducing a luxury brand of its own though.

 

[Kia Stinger]

What was the general perception of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura like when they first launched?

I would assume Toyota/Nissan/Honda were facing the same questions about if they can actually deliver luxury cars considering their brand and product history.

I am supporting Kia introducing a luxury brand of its own though.

If I remember correctly, I was pretty young at the time, all three brands were scrutinized quite a bit. It's very similar to the situation right now with Genesis and Hyundai. Half the people still feel Genesis is a cheap throw-away car. Half the people know they're getting an amazing deal on an amazing car because of the low price AND the quality. Lexus did have a much higher level of quality for the time, however.

Infiniti kinda caught on - but never like Lexus. Acura was the first by a year or two and they had a large following - but attention to detail was still not as good as Lexus. But all three brands did have a large hill to climb. Somehow I don't see Kia bringing out a luxury division any time soon. I'm not sure why I feel that way because their cars can certainly warrant a luxury division. I just think right now it would be way too competitive. It's already difficult for Hyundai and it would be an even bigger challenge for Kia.

Remember, Kia is thought of as the Hamster brand. Hyundai never had to overcome that...

 

[westcoastGT]

If I remember correctly, I was pretty young at the time, all three brands were scrutinized quite a bit. It's very similar to the situation right now with Genesis and Hyundai. Half the people still feel Genesis is a cheap throw-away car. Half the people know they're getting an amazing deal on an amazing car because of the low price AND the quality. Lexus did have a much higher level of quality for the time, however.

Infiniti kinda caught on - but never like Lexus. Acura was the first by a year or two and they had a large following - but attention to detail was still not as good as Lexus. But all three brands did have a large hill to climb. Somehow I don't see Kia bringing out a luxury division any time soon. I'm not sure why I feel that way because their cars can certainly warrant a luxury division. I just think right now it would be way too competitive. It's already difficult for Hyundai and it would be an even bigger challenge for Kia.

Remember, Kia is thought of as the Hamster brand. Hyundai never had to overcome that...

I really hate that Hamster campaign and cringe everytime I see it ! Someone please make it go away so Kia can grow up !

 

[Euljiro1ga]

Hamster? what hamster?

Gotta go Google that...

 

[Kia Stinger]

I really hate that Hamster campaign and cringe everytime I see it ! Someone please make it go away so Kia can grow up !

It was a fine ad campaign and I think it brought them a lot of attention from the customers they were targeting. But Hyundai did not have to overcome this...

 

[westcoastGT]

arghhhh , nigtmares !!