What suspension/wheel mods to do first? Biggest impact to driving experience?

[milkboi69]

Hi everyone,

I've been a forum lurker since I picked up my '22 Stinger GT2 AWD (Ascot Green) with 3k miles this past October; this forum is awesome. I'm pretty happy with the stock power output for now, but there are a few things I'd like to do for the ride/handling that I have a few questions about.

Things I'm considering:
- New wheels (+ new tires)- for both weight reduction and better grip from tires (AWD came with primacy tours so I'd like to have a set of PS4s for summer). Also can't forget looks (thinking about something like a Gloss black Vertini 1.1, staggered 19" setup).
- Mando Control Unit
- Upgraded sway bars - (probably Eibach?)

I'm not looking to do these all at once, so I'm planning to start with the one that makes the biggest impact. For those of you familiar on the matter, what would you recommend?

I few specific questions in mind:

1. What makes a bigger overall difference between Mando vs. upgraded sway bars?
2. Does the Mando tighten up the suspension noticeably for aggressive "sport" driving? I understand that it can make the suspension considerably more comfortable on bumpy roads, which I'd definitely appreciate too.
3. If doing sway bars, would you recommend doing both front and rear? Would it be useful to only install one on its own and if so, which?
4. Is the weight savings from lighter wheels noticeable in how it drives?
5. Is grip between Primacy Tour vs. PS4 quite noticeable in everyday driving? I drive the Stinger quite aggressively and take every chance to hit a corner at speed.

Also, let me know if I'm missing anything that I should be considering!

 

[Snicklefritz]

1. From my reading, Mando makes a noticeable, some would say dramatic, difference in tuning the ride.
2. I do not know. And I haven't read of anyone making Sport more "tightened" up with Mando.
3. Both. That's what I would do over. But if you do one, do the rear bar first, it reduces the "bunny hop" and stepping out in the rear when cornering fast. A lot.
4. I have aftermarket wheels that weigh c. 21 lbs. The OEM wheels are c. 34 lbs. Ima sure some people can tell the difference driving around, but I can't. That's because once the rolling weight is rolling, it won't make any difference cornering. But accelerating out of a corner, or off the line acceleration, yes that will be noticeable in track times. But again, I doubt that many would be able to "feel" the difference.
5. Any A/S tire is going to get aced by a Michelin PS4(S). I've been running PS4S since the OEM PS4 got replaced back mid 2019. Replaced the 255 first then ran another 6,000+ miles on the PS4 225, and wore them out and replaced them. I can definitely tell the difference in grip. I can push the A/S that I also run on the OEM wheels, for winter, and make them sing and slide in the corners. I've yet to be brave enough to push the PS4S that far, although I have got to the point of starting to hear the tread "hiss", but that is the point where the Eibach sway bar in front tells me that the steering is starting to get very light and will snap over if I push harder, so I don't. Hah.

 

[D.J.]

Hi everyone,

I've been a forum lurker since I picked up my '22 Stinger GT2 AWD (Ascot Green) with 3k miles this past October; this forum is awesome. I'm pretty happy with the stock power output for now, but there are a few things I'd like to do for the ride/handling that I have a few questions about.

Things I'm considering:
- New wheels (+ new tires)- for both weight reduction and better grip from tires (AWD came with primacy tours so I'd like to have a set of PS4s for summer). Also can't forget looks (thinking about something like a Gloss black Vertini 1.1, staggered 19" setup).
- Mando Control Unit
- Upgraded sway bars - (probably Eibach?)

I'm not looking to do these all at once, so I'm planning to start with the one that makes the biggest impact. For those of you familiar on the matter, what would you recommend?

I few specific questions in mind:

1. What makes a bigger overall difference between Mando vs. upgraded sway bars?
2. Does the Mando tighten up the suspension noticeably for aggressive "sport" driving? I understand that it can make the suspension considerably more comfortable on bumpy roads, which I'd definitely appreciate too.
3. If doing sway bars, would you recommend doing both front and rear? Would it be useful to only install one on its own and if so, which?
4. Is the weight savings from lighter wheels noticeable in how it drives?
5. Is grip between Primacy Tour vs. PS4 quite noticeable in everyday driving? I drive the Stinger quite aggressively and take every chance to hit a corner at speed.

Also, let me know if I'm missing anything that I should be considering!

1. Difficult to compare, 1 is mechanical and the other can dynamically adjust your suspension damping characteristics based on speed and various inputs. Both are substantial.
2. The Mando ECS10 allows you to customize your compression damping, and in advanced mode, you can change the characteristics based on vehicle speed. You can spend many hours playing with, and developing, profiles that you can then apply and remove and modify in seconds. The softest compression damping available with the ECS10 is slightly softer than the OEM comfort mode. I use this mode for long highway commutes.
3. Yes, both (my opinion)
4. Probably
5. YES!

 

[1OttawaStinger]

Just added this week 19” x 8.5 RSSW Legend wheels on my 21 awd gt ltd.

 

[Ric 'Ochet]

Hi everyone,

I've been a forum lurker since I picked up my '22 Stinger GT2 AWD (Ascot Green) with 3k miles this past October; this forum is awesome. I'm pretty happy with the stock power output for now, but there are a few things I'd like to do for the ride/handling that I have a few questions about.

Things I'm considering:
- New wheels (+ new tires)- for both weight reduction and better grip from tires (AWD came with primacy tours so I'd like to have a set of PS4s for summer). Also can't forget looks (thinking about something like a Gloss black Vertini 1.1, staggered 19" setup).
- Mando Control Unit
- Upgraded sway bars - (probably Eibach?)

I'm not looking to do these all at once, so I'm planning to start with the one that makes the biggest impact. For those of you familiar on the matter, what would you recommend?

I few specific questions in mind:

1. What makes a bigger overall difference between Mando vs. upgraded sway bars?
2. Does the Mando tighten up the suspension noticeably for aggressive "sport" driving? I understand that it can make the suspension considerably more comfortable on bumpy roads, which I'd definitely appreciate too.
3. If doing sway bars, would you recommend doing both front and rear? Would it be useful to only install one on its own and if so, which?
4. Is the weight savings from lighter wheels noticeable in how it drives?
5. Is grip between Primacy Tour vs. PS4 quite noticeable in everyday driving? I drive the Stinger quite aggressively and take every chance to hit a corner at speed.

Also, let me know if I'm missing anything that I should be considering!

Sways IMO make the most dramatic difference in overall handling as you can "feel" the car squat to hold in turns. A couple lbs in the wheels either way won't make a significant difference unless you plan on tracking the car.

PS4 over Primacy Tour as well, I'm putting PS A/S4 on mine as we speak (staggered) though I don't drive in the winter (ever) or rain if I can avoid it, more for the combination of tread life and occasional spirited driving.

Get a catch can.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

Upgrading the swaybars make the most dramatic difference based on cost & this is where I started, I then added heavy duty Endlinks which seem to just further firm things up.
Next was the wheels & tyres, I went 19” semi forged wheels, the OE wheel is 16kgs & upgrade is 12kgs, tyres are 245 & 275 respectively & with a good wheel alignment the car really improved again, steering was direct & responsive especially at higher speed bends. Lastly I added Ultra Racing chassis braces (centre & rear only) the car really now runs on rails, it feels so balanced on the road & provides great confidence & control in all condition's.
I have a GT & in OZ it comes with the active suspension & these upgrades have not had any adverse affect on the car’s drivability or comfort, it suits my driving style perfectly & puts a huge smile on my face every time I drive it.

 

[Volfy]

If you are starting out with bone stock suspension, here are the order of mods I would recommend:

1. Tires. if OEMs are all-season touring tires, then lots of better performance-focused options. If OEMs are the Summer Michelins, then they are pretty good already. Out of all suspension components, tires often makes the biggest difference.

2. Lightweight wheels. Whether you'll necessarily "feel" their effects, the faster accel/decel, better suspension control and ride quality are all very real. People's butt dynos have a funny way of amplifying some mods while "detuning" others. As long as you select a reputable wheel with equal or better than stock load rating, this is about the only "upgrade' that has almost no downside.

3. Lowering springs. But... only if the spring rates are stiffer than stock. Then they help with better suspension control in both roll and pitch axis.

4. Anti-roll bars. This stiffen the suspension control in the roll axis only. Unlike coil springs, the stiffer the anti-roll bars, the less independent the suspension is (from side to side), so there are drawback, like many things in suspension tuning. If you live where the pavement is smooth and twisties are aplenty, anti-roll bars will be more worthwhile than if the roads are straight, rough, and infested with potholes big and small.

In lieu of lowering springs, you can jump straight to coilovers, for far more tunability. However, that tunability can be a double edge sword. I've seen no shortage of folks that set up their coilovers in ways that don't always benefit handling, but it's up the individual owner to decide whether aesthetics trumps handling. I only state this caveat here because OP appears to stress better handling as the primary goal.

 

[milkboi69]

I really appreciate the replies everyone! I’ve been really busy lately, so I may need to mull over your responses for a bit.

I’m leaning towards starting with wheels/tires to start. I do feel like the tires are being pushed more than the car itself in my current driving.

As far as the anti-roll bars go, how much do they adversely affect comfort on those rough pothole infested roads? Reducing body roll is something I’d really like, but I also do a lot of driving in Seattle where the streets are exactly that. I do want the Stinger to be remain comfortable for my day-to day- driving, so I’m wondering how much upgraded sway bars add to the discomfort of rough roads vs. the benefit to performance? I know it’s hard to say exactly (and maybe there is no great answer), but I want to make sure I won’t hate myself for the sway bars as I drive around the city on a regular basis.

As far as the Mando unit, my main use for that would be softening things up around the city since it’s quite rough right now - would that make a material difference for this use case on its own? Moreover, could that offset the negative impact of sway bars?

 

[Snicklefritz]

As far as the anti-roll bars go, how much do they adversely affect comfort on those rough pothole infested roads?

Avoid potholes to begin with. I steer around/over every pothole that I see. As for rough roads generally, it sounds like your already sensitive to the Stinger's relatively stiff ride - the compromise between performance/handling and comfort/luxury. I wasn't. In fact it took me two weeks after getting the car to notice that the tires were inflated to 50+ psi! But anyone who objects to a stiffer ride should probably avoid the antiroll sway bars, because they'll just feel everything more than they already do. If you change your mind and decide that better cornering and steering feedback is more important than the stiffer ride, then get the bars. I had read that some drivers noticed the loss of riding comfort, so, when I had my rear bar installed I was concentrating on the ride all the way home, and was glad that I couldn't tell any difference in the ride. Bar has always been set on "soft". Later, I put the front bar in, and same thing happened, no difference that I could tell in comfort, but the steering feedback improvement was big, and the body roll reduced noticeably also. I've never regretted the antiroll sways and still feel it was the best improvement for the money spent.

 

[D.J.]

As far as the Mando unit, my main use for that would be softening things up around the city since it’s quite rough right now - would that make a material difference for this use case on its own?

Nope.
If you want a noticeably softer ride, perhaps a Toyota Camry?

Using the ECS10, and setting the dampers to 0% compression damping at all speeds; the result of that is only slightly softer than the OEM default suspension without the ECS10, using eco or comfort or smart.

Adding sway bars, though they don't directly affect the ride quality on smooth roads, they will cause significant "discomfort" on roads that aren't smooth.

If you are describing the stinger, with electronic damping set on comfort/eco, of you would describe that as "too firm" - I'm thinking there is no suspension modification that can achieve your desired result.

 

[milkboi69]

Nope.
If you want a noticeably softer ride, perhaps a Toyota Camry?

Using the ECS10, and setting the dampers to 0% compression damping at all speeds; the result of that is only slightly softer than the OEM default suspension without the ECS10, using eco or comfort or smart.

Adding sway bars, though they don't directly affect the ride quality on smooth roads, they will cause significant "discomfort" on roads that aren't smooth.

If you are describing the stinger, with electronic damping set on comfort/eco, of you would describe that as "too firm" - I'm thinking there is no suspension modification that can achieve your desired result.

To clarify, I’m fine with the ride quality of the OEM suspension and I’m not expecting a super plush ride out of the Stinger. However, the city roads are poor, and with a lot of broad hand wavy claims I’ve read regarding Mando unit, I thought I’d at least try to get a better understanding of its benefit (or lack thereof) for this particular use case. I’m just trying to be informed on what’s possible. Based on your comment, it seems like there isn’t much a of a solution to considerably soften the ride - I am content with that.

 

[milkboi69]

Regarding sway bar upgrades - I’ve only seen references to Eibach and ARK. ARK is more expensive - is it also better? Is there another brand that is preferred?

Also, my understanding is that either aftermarket option on their soft setting will still be an upgrade over the OEM sway bars - is that correct?

 

[Snowwhite]

Regarding sway bar upgrades - I’ve only seen references to Eibach and ARK. ARK is more expensive - is it also better? Is there another brand that is preferred?

Also, my understanding is that either aftermarket option on their soft setting will still be an upgrade over the OEM sway bars - is that correct?

the ARKS are solid and a slight bit larger diameter than the Eibachs, which are hollow. Solid bars are more effective at reducing roll, of course, at the expense of more single-wheel impact harness than hollow ones.

Any aftermarket sway bar will improve things over the stock ones, even on the soft setting. the stock sway bars are way too small for this car, in my opinion. Maybe they don't need to be as thick as the aftermarket units (ARK 27mm/20mm, eibach 25mm/19mm) but the stock ones look like paper clips in comparison and that weird uneasiness this car has stock proves it.

 

[Snicklefritz]

the stock sway bars are way too small for this car, in my opinion.

If I remember right, the OEM sway bars are not really sway bars in the sense that the opposite ends communicate with each other. Aftermarket sway bars twist inside of bushings. The OEM bars have their mounts permanently attached to the bar, thus the only flexing possible is from the mount to the end link. Rather than operating like a proper anti-sway bar, the OEM have been described as "another kind of spring". Or am I getting this wrong?

 

[D.J.]

If I remember right, the OEM sway bars are not really sway bars in the sense that the opposite ends communicate with each other. Aftermarket sway bars twist inside of bushings. The OEM bars have their mounts permanently attached to the bar, thus the only flexing possible is from the mount to the end link. Rather than operating like a proper anti-sway bar, the OEM have been described as "another kind of spring". Or am I getting this wrong?

Yes, you are getting that wrong.

OEM sway bars work the same as aftermarket, just OEM are thinner and less effective based on that thickness, which makes them less stiff.

OEM use rubber mounts - which are almost always silent, and very long lasting, and not as rigid.

Aftermarket typically use polyurethane, which is firmer, but can eventually cause squeaks and unwanted sounds.

In BOTH cases, the sway bar pivots inside the mount.

Here are the OEM components - same as aftermarket., just smaller + different materials.

As you can see, the OEM rubber bushing is the same design as all the aftermarket polyurethane bushings .. the bar pivots in the bushing

 

[Snicklefritz]

Thanks for the correction. I don't know how I got the impression that the mounts were permanently attached to the bars, as they appear to be in that picture I posted. Memory does not serve and it's too long ago and the OEM bars are long gone. I just "remember" the mounts being permanently attached to the bars upon examination. Oh well.

Yes, you are getting that wrong.

OEM sway bars work the same as aftermarket, just OEM are thinner and less effective based on that thickness, which makes them less stiff.

OEM use rubber mounts - which are almost always silent, and very long lasting, and not as rigid.

Aftermarket typically use polyurethane, which is firmer, but can eventually cause squeaks and unwanted sounds.

In BOTH cases, the sway bar pivots inside the mount.

Here are the OEM components - same as aftermarket., just smaller + different materials.

As you can see, the OEM rubber bushing is the same design as all the aftermarket polyurethane bushings .. the bar pivots in the bushing

View attachment 86648

View attachment 86647

 

[Volfy]

All anti-roll bars are basically a torsion spring that couples the two sides of the front or rear suspension together. Most OEM bushings are rubber to reduce NVH. Only some high performance sportscars come stock with polyurethane bushings.

The stock rubber bushings just appear to be fused to the bar. I doubt they actually are. Even if they are, the rubber has enough flexibility in it to function as intended, as they don't need to mover laterally.

 

[Volfy]

Regarding sway bar upgrades - I’ve only seen references to Eibach and ARK. ARK is more expensive - is it also better? Is there another brand that is preferred?

All our Stingers and G70 run on Whiteline anti-roll bars. I did upgrade to greasable bushings and brackets, which can be readily be bought for both front and rear. I believe ARK does not have greasable bushings either. Only Eibach does.

Also, my understanding is that either aftermarket option on their soft setting will still be an upgrade over the OEM sway bars - is that correct?

Stiffer yes. Most guys understand that suspension tuning are a compromise, trading a bit more NVH and stiffer ride for better chassis response. Aftermarket caters to that need. Rarely do you see them sell stuff that are softer than stock.

 

[D.J.]

I did upgrade to greasable bushings and brackets, which can be readily be bought for both front and rear.

Did you have to drill a hole in the polyurethane bushing to allow a grease path from the zerk fitting to the sway bar? Or did the greasable brackets come with bushings designed to be greased?

 

[Volfy]

Did you have to drill a hole in the polyurethane bushing to allow a grease path from the zerk fitting to the sway bar? Or did the greasable brackets come with bushings designed to be greased?

When I first got the Whiteline bars, I did drill/tap the brackets to receive Zerk fittings. Also drilled the bushings to let the grease pass through. However, I found that while the zerk fitting worked great, it was next to impossible to pump the grease into the tight gap between the bushing and the bar.


So, I later changed them out with greasable bracket and fitting from Energy Suspension and Prothane. These not only have the Zerk fittings, the bushings also have grooves molded into them to allow grease to flow. These work much much better. IMO, all aftermarket anti-roll bars should come with these.