Vibration When Braking

[19stngrGt1]

Hello, Yes I have already read the 100s of discussions on this topic but I need some help understanding what’s going on in my specific situation.

I had all 4 rotors resurfaced and brake pads replaced about 2 1/2 or 3 months ago. I had them install the Euro spec brake pads as my service advisor told me about the negative issues with oem parts. Fast forward about 1,000 miles and I have that DREADED vibration/ shaking when applying the break from any speed over 45mph.

I asked my service advisor what he thinks and mentioned the known issues with oem pads, he said there’s no way its the pads as he only installs euro spec pads on stingers because of the known issue. He is telling me its most likely a warped rotor. I paid $1500 about 3 months ago when I had the rotors and pads done so he said they will resurface the rotors under warranty but can’t guarantee how long it will correct the issue for. Sounds crazy to me. Any opinions, suggestions or similar situations? Thanks!

 

[Snicklefritz]

surely you know after all your reading that you the driver are the common ingredient here. drivers don't like being told that the way they use the brakes is the cause of deposits getting on the rotors. they say they are gentle brakers or not really hard on brakes at all. it is subjective reasoning not to be resolved in textual form on the internet.

 

[19stngrGt1]

surely you know after all your reading that you the driver are the common ingredient here. drivers don't like being told that the way they use the brakes is the cause of deposits getting on the rotors. they say they are gentle brakers or not really hard on brakes at all. it is subjective reasoning not to be resolved in textual form on the internet.

The dealer installed euro spec pads which from what I’ve heard, Don’t cause the deposit issues? The dealer is saying its a warped rotor. That’s what I am a bit confused about.

 

[bfglitch]

You also still have to bed the brakes properly, otherwise you'll most likely wind up with the same issue.

 

[Snicklefritz]

The dealer is saying its a warped rotor. That’s what I am a bit confused about.

You also still have to bed the brakes properly, otherwise you'll most likely wind up with the same issue.

this is the thing to understand, bedding in the brakes is absolutely not necessary if you baby the brakes during the break in time. kia says that is the first approx 600 miles on a new car. I did what they said religiously, which included going easy on the brakes. I never did bed the oem north american pads, just drove them brand new nice and easy. this did not change, because that is how I brake anyway all the time, outside of an emergency stop which I have had less than half a dozen times since new over the past more than five years. when you hoon and that includes sudden heavy stops, that's when bets are off and you can heat up the pads big time and hold them onto the hot rotor while stopped. presto, pad deposits.

 

[D.J.]

Hello, Yes I have already read the 100s of discussions on this topic but I need some help understanding what’s going on in my specific situation.

I had all 4 rotors resurfaced and brake pads replaced about 2 1/2 or 3 months ago. I had them install the Euro spec brake pads as my service advisor told me about the negative issues with oem parts. Fast forward about 1,000 miles and I have that DREADED vibration/ shaking when applying the break from any speed over 45mph.

I asked my service advisor what he thinks and mentioned the known issues with oem pads, he said there’s no way its the pads as he only installs euro spec pads on stingers because of the known issue. He is telling me its most likely a warped rotor. I paid $1500 about 3 months ago when I had the rotors and pads done so he said they will resurface the rotors under warranty but can’t guarantee how long it will correct the issue for. Sounds crazy to me. Any opinions, suggestions or similar situations? Thanks!

That sucks.

I can't imagine paying $1500 (assuming USD) to replace pads, and machine 4x rotors.
Those must be some expensive pads. Worse yet the issue was not resolved.
Very curious, what was the parts vs labor breakdown for your $1500 brake job - are those pads exceedingly expensive?


Side note:
I am currently rolling with OEM rotors, which were machined on car ~5K kms ago
Current pads are Dynamic Friction DFC 5000 Advance from Rockauto.
Current status - after only 5000 kms - still perfectly smooth!

Lathing on a Sunday afternoon

About 55k KMs on the rotors Measured 29.85mm before Measured 29.25mm after Dynamic Friction DFC 5000 Advance - were installed

stingerforum.org

 

[Kazz]

Regardless of the cause, you need to re-surface the rotors again just to be sure you're addressing the problem. Whether it's warped rotors are pad deposits, you still have to re-do it. I would recommend doing your own research on pads to find a set that don't cause the same problem as the OEMs. I don't trust any service writer or mechanic to give me the best recommendation. They can only sell you what they have.

You then should look into how/whether the new pads need bedding. Also look into how to use brakes on a vehicle to avoid warping your rotors. It's really about smooth, easy input of the brake pedal - the same thing you need for good gas mileage and passenger comfort with the accelerator pedal.

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!!

 

[19stngrGt1]

this is the thing to understand, bedding in the brakes is absolutely not necessary if you baby the brakes during the break in time. kia says that is the first approx 600 miles on a new car. I did what they said religiously, which included going easy on the brakes. I never did bed the oem north american pads, just drove them brand new nice and easy. this did not change, because that is how I brake anyway all the time, outside of an emergency stop which I have had less than half a dozen times since new over the past more than five years. when you hoon and that includes sudden heavy stops, that's when bets are off and you can heat up the pads big time and hold them onto the hot rotor while stopped. presto, pad deposits.

I purchased the car CPO with 9k miles. Never had an issue with brake vibrations until 1k miles after the break job (completed at 21k miles). Maybe the north american pads were used properly by previous owner or a swap was done before I purchased it… Who knows. Being gentle on breaks here in south fl is a bit hard lol.

 

[19stngrGt1]

That sucks.

I can't imagine paying $1500 (assuming USD) to replace pads, and machine 4x rotors.
Those must be some expensive pads. Worse yet the issue was not resolved.
Very curious, what was the parts vs labor breakdown for your $1500 brake job - are those pads exceedingly expensive?


Side note:
I am currently rolling with OEM rotors, which were machined on car ~5K kms ago
Current pads are from Rockauto.
Current status - after only 5000 kms - still perfectly smooth!

Not exactly sure how much I paid for the parts vs labor off the top of my head. I do know however- they installed the Euro spec pads. I specifically had the job done at the dealership because of the known break issues with the stinger. If i had the work done somewhere else, easy for Kia to come up with some excuse. Thanks for noting what pads you have!

 

[19stngrGt1]

Regardless of the cause, you need to re-surface the rotors again just to be sure you're addressing the problem. Whether it's warped rotors are pad deposits, you still have to re-do it. I would recommend doing your own research on pads to find a set that don't cause the same problem as the OEMs. I don't trust any service writer or mechanic to give me the best recommendation. They can only sell you what they have.

You then should look into how/whether the new pads need bedding. Also look into how to use brakes on a vehicle to avoid warping your rotors. It's really about smooth, easy input of the brake pedal - the same thing you need for good gas mileage and passenger comfort with the accelerator pedal.

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!!

I will have them resurfaced under the warranty but i’m not sure if I should replace the Euro spec pads I just had installed. What a headache lol

 

[Kazz]

I will have them resurfaced under the warranty but i’m not sure if I should replace the Euro spec pads I just had installed. What a headache lol

Personally, I know nothing about the Euro spec pads. So I have no idea what you should expect. Perhaps another user here has experience?

 

[ddavis1982]

Hello, Yes I have already read the 100s of discussions on this topic but I need some help understanding what’s going on in my specific situation.

I had all 4 rotors resurfaced and brake pads replaced about 2 1/2 or 3 months ago. I had them install the Euro spec brake pads as my service advisor told me about the negative issues with oem parts. Fast forward about 1,000 miles and I have that DREADED vibration/ shaking when applying the break from any speed over 45mph.

I asked my service advisor what he thinks and mentioned the known issues with oem pads, he said there’s no way its the pads as he only installs euro spec pads on stingers because of the known issue. He is telling me its most likely a warped rotor. I paid $1500 about 3 months ago when I had the rotors and pads done so he said they will resurface the rotors under warranty but can’t guarantee how long it will correct the issue for. Sounds crazy to me. Any opinions, suggestions or similar situations? Thanks!

So if you love the car I do have the solution, as I was in your situation. I am finding it is actually an issue with the design of the car itself. Why? Air. There is not enough air getting to the rotors and brakes. I live in California, we get the same summers you do and I noticed as well my brakes/rotors get super hot on regular driving in the summer time. Now where does this come into play in with the rotors you ask? No there not warped, they just can't clean themselves and the brake deposits collect, solidify causing an uneven surface, and shudder here we come.

I have tried 3 different types of brakes (stock, low dust ceramics and a non kia reccomended brand) every time the dust accumulates on the rotors within 2k miles and the shudders return

I can fix it by re-bedding the brakes by a 3 set of getting to 80 and stomping on em till it basically cleans the rotor. 1-2k miles later, here we go again. All this explanation leads to this, you minimally need to replace the rotors with slotted rotors so they shed the dust, the stock ones just won't do it because of the defect of the car.

This is my suspicion after countless trial and error, and with haggling with Kia. There service manager himself stated that they can replace the brakes and rotors however the problem will persist. His reccomendation was an outside shop that will put on slotted/drilled rotors. I have been on my slotted and drilled rotors now for 3k miles, smoothe as butter, and still in the Cali summer. I didn't go with his shop reccomendation but got the r1 slotted and drilled rotors and replaced them myself, wasn't all that hard to do with a YouTube video. It's a beautiful car, don't ditch her for this ez fix. But don't believe people when they say the rotors are fine, there not.

 

[Kodiack]

Did you have to post this to 4 different threads?...
Your experience does not supersede hundreds of other who have solved this by replacing the stock pads and continuing to use the stock rotors.
I have over 150k kms on my stinger with the same stock rotors and I have 0 shudder or vibration.
Drilled and slotted rotors are simply for aesthetics for a street car......they do cool for track use but serve no purpose for normal use unless you stomp the brake on every stop....they do wear out pads at a much higher rate though.
Im not diminishing what you did but it is not the easiest or best solution to the problem.

 

[blnewt]

My Dynamic Friction 5000 series low-metallic pads w/ my G70 Brembos (stock rotors) and no brake judder, just better bite w/ a bit more dust than OEM, great tradeoff.

 

[LordKOTL]

So if you love the car I do have the solution, as I was in your situation. I am finding it is actually an issue with the design of the car itself. Why? Air. There is not enough air getting to the rotors and brakes. I live in California, we get the same summers you do and I noticed as well my brakes/rotors get super hot on regular driving in the summer time. Now where does this come into play in with the rotors you ask? No there not warped, they just can't clean themselves and the brake deposits collect, solidify causing an uneven surface, and shudder here we come.

I have tried 3 different types of brakes (stock, low dust ceramics and a non kia reccomended brand) every time the dust accumulates on the rotors within 2k miles and the shudders return

I can fix it by re-bedding the brakes by a 3 set of getting to 80 and stomping on em till it basically cleans the rotor. 1-2k miles later, here we go again. All this explanation leads to this, you minimally need to replace the rotors with slotted rotors so they shed the dust, the stock ones just won't do it because of the defect of the car.

This is my suspicion after countless trial and error, and with haggling with Kia. There service manager himself stated that they can replace the brakes and rotors however the problem will persist. His reccomendation was an outside shop that will put on slotted/drilled rotors. I have been on my slotted and drilled rotors now for 3k miles, smoothe as butter, and still in the Cali summer. I didn't go with his shop reccomendation but got the r1 slotted and drilled rotors and replaced them myself, wasn't all that hard to do with a YouTube video. It's a beautiful car, don't ditch her for this ez fix. But don't believe people when they say the rotors are fine, there not.

I think the problem is slightly different based on my observations: I don't think it's necessarily a lack of cooling that is the main culprit, but rather that the Stingers smart cruise control rides the brakes, as mentioned in this thread.

If you brake the car manually while driving on a downhill gradient how you're supposed to--braking periodically and not riding them, downshifting, etc., you don't develop the shudder. I've also noticed when I ended up in a rented Challenger a year ago that when it is in cruise and you're going down a hill, it downshifts as well. The Stinger doesn't--at least not automatically.

I will agree that cooling comes into it, but I think the deeper issue is how the cruise control works to slow the vehicle. I think if you are using slotted/drilled/dimpled it does provide some mitigation to the problem and can be a fix. I also have noticed this (in retrospect) in PacNW winters--where it gets cold not not really snowy/icy enough to have to drive slowly--the shudder still develops.

My $0.02; no refunds.

 

[Thomby]

I don't think it's necessarily a lack of cooling that is the main culprit, but rather that the Stingers smart cruise control rides the brakes

While this might contribute, I don't think it can be the primary cause. How many people have reported brake vibration, and how many of those are regularly using smart cruise on long downhills?

The fact that it happens to US cars which are known to use a softer/quieter pad material, and that switching to other pads seems to resolve it, makes me think it's primarily the compound (probably combined with the weight & performance nature of the car --> probably more heat than these pads might see in other uses).

At ~25k miles I've noticed the occasional mild pulsing, but one or two moderate brake applications (maybe 6/10, nowhere near threshold) from cruising speed cleans them right up, so I'm sure it's tied to driving style.

 

[Snicklefritz]

But don't believe people when they say the rotors are fine, there not.

OEM rotors are fine. They're Brembo. If you get all giddy over slots and holes that's alright. I have over 70,000 on my original brakes and never a hint of shudder. But I tend to drive more toward the hypermiling end of the spectrum. Downhill conditions require the correct way to use the brakes, which is a stiff, brief application to reduce speed and let off, repeat as required to maintain speed. That will not heat up the brakes.

 

[D.J.]

OEM rotors are fine. They're Brembo.

The OEM rotors are fine, yes, BUT NOT because they are Brembo!

The OEM pads are Brembo as well, and most owners do not have positive experiences with these Brembo pads.

 

[ddavis1982]

Did you have to post this to 4 different threads?...
Your experience does not supersede hundreds of other who have solved this by replacing the stock pads and continuing to use the stock rotors.
I have over 150k kms on my stinger with the same stock rotors and I have 0 shudder or vibration.
Drilled and slotted rotors are simply for aesthetics for a street car......they do cool for track use but serve no purpose for normal use unless you stomp the brake on every stop....they do wear out pads at a much higher rate though.
Im not diminishing what you did but it is not the easiest or best solution to the problem.

True it would be nice if it was all in 1 post but it is not . With all the frustration and money it took for me to find the solution though I wanted to at least get it out to the top search results for recent posts. Not meant to spam, but I would rather someone learn from my heart ache then have to go through it themselves ya know?

 

[ddavis1982]

I think the problem is slightly different based on my observations: I don't think it's necessarily a lack of cooling that is the main culprit.

If you brake the car manually while driving on a downhill gradient how you're supposed to--braking periodically and not riding them, downshifting, etc., you don't develop the shudder. I've also noticed when I ended up in a rented Challenger a year ago that when it is in cruise and you're going down a hill, it downshifts as well. The Stinger doesn't--at least not automatically.

I will agree that cooling comes into it, but I think the deeper issue is how the cruise control works to slow the vehicle. I think if you are using slotted/drilled/dimpled it does provide some mitigation to the problem and can be a fix. I also have noticed this (in retrospect) in PacNW winters--where it gets cold not not really snowy/icy enough to have to drive slowly--the shudder still develops.

My $0.02; no refunds.

Guess that can be a thing in a perfect world, but most times I nor morst people get the opportunity for perfect braking situations especially with long commutes, or even small ones for that matter. The air theory is def a hypothesis as I have no way to say it's 100% the issue, although it's the best I can come up with especially with how easily the dust accumulates even with low dust brake solutions. Air flow would make more sense though if it's a cold temp issue too though as the dust would still collect

I do use the cruise at times as well so you may have something there too, but I can tell you that even with using cruise with the new rotors the problem has not re-surfaced thank the car gods. So hopefully my trial and error can help end the pain I had to go through to get the win with little effort for people just starting out with this frustrating situation.