Throttle position Error Code and Performance loss after Emissions or Fuel Pump Recall?

[HanStinger]

2020 Stinger 2L GT-Line

I had a check engine light come on and the car couldn't get to highway speed. Friend with scanner read out the code that said the two throttle position sensors were not agreeing. Restarted the car and it drove better so dropped it off at the dealer. Dealer saw code but thinks it is my use of the parking brake that caused the problem. Said it was unnecessary to use and I stretched the cable. The cable is touching something that interferes with the throttle. (Owner's manual says in yellow box to always use the parking brake). Anyway, they could not replicate the loss of power I experienced -- so returned the car with no charge to me.

But they also did two recalls while it was in. The fuel pump recall (NHTSA 23V634) letter says the problem causes "loss of drive power". The Emission recall is not mandated by NHTSA and has no number -- but it says that the dealer will update the ECM software to improve emissions.

Got the car back and it doesn't seem as responsive as before. I'm trying to figure if this is still the throttle position problem or did the recalls reduce the power?

In my thinking, improved emissions would translate into a loss of acceleration (kind of like VW Diesel Gate). To rule that out, did anyone do the emissions recall and get a car back that didn't feel as sporty?
Likewise, the fuel pump recall includes an ECM flash. If they dial back the action of the fuel pump, that would also cause what I am feeling. Did anyone notice a change in their car after the fuel pump recall?
A third alternative is that they disconnected the battery and the car is re-learning. I noticed the annoying ignition start / stop feature wasn't working on the way home. It just gave me an "A" inside a yellow circle on the dash. Looking into the manual it says something about the start/stop system needing some hours to recalibrate the battery sensor before allowing the start / stop feature to work. Maybe it will drive better tomorrow.

A lot to chew on.

 

[HanStinger]

I started keeping a log of how it was behaving.
This morning it started up in ECO mode and felt restrained while driving.
During the day I just started it 3x in the parking lot at work and each time it went into COMFORT mode and it does that going forward.
Drove home and it seemed normal for once.
Went shopping that evening and the auto/stop start started working for the first time -- I got the green A in the circle and it does that going forward.
So this evening it seems all is fine. But I'm wondering why the improvement. Perhaps the battery charge state has something to do with this?

 

[Snicklefritz]

I have no answers. But I do know that if you turn the Stinger off in Eco it will restart in Eco.
Also, just turn ISG OFF when you start the car, that way you save yourself an annoying headache and your starting system lasts longer too.

 

[bfglitch]

ISG/Auto stop start absolutely is tied to battery state (among other things as well). If the battery is below a certain level ISG won't work. It also needs to meet a few other criteria as well. Either way I disable every time I drive mainly to put less stress on the starter. Don't need to add one more reason to possibly drop the engine.

 

[HanStinger]

I'm leaving the ISG on because it not work could indicate a problem with the car. For example, this afternoon the ISG did not work. It would show a yellow circle with an "A" on the dashboard and the ISG off button near the center armrest came on. The outside temp was 71 and I had the AC set to 73. I think if the car was normal it would have come on.

 

[Snicklefritz]

you are attaching too much confidence in the ISG system. the manual gives a long list of conditions that will make it not function. the most common is battery strength, but a bunch of others, a complex of others, will make ISG stay off. I think it is the stupidest most useless feature of the car.

 

[HanStinger]

I'm logging it's activation down every trip in case I see a pattern. Anyway, here is the text of what they wrote on my paperwork in regards to the problem . It was written on the invoice -- they charged me nothing though.

"Tech scanned for DTC and a history code for P213800 accelerator pedal code. Tech checked connections to the pedal, everything is tight. Tech is advised concern can come present due to e-brake being applied and stretching cable over pedal harness ..."

When I looked up the code is said the two pedal position sensors disagreed. So I thought I needed to change sensors. But I take the statement above to mean the tech interpreted it as a loose sensor that was out of position. But nothing was loose. These sensors never go bad? Just get loose?

According to Kelly Blue Book (https://www.kbb.com/obd-ii/p2138/) concerning the sensors:

"However, when they deviate for two or more seconds, the ECM triggers the P2138 code to indicate a malfunction somewhere in the system."

"The first symptom you may notice with the P2138 code is a sudden loss of power at cruising speeds. Next, your vehicle may experience trouble with acceleration and loss of power, and unresponsiveness from the engine. The Check Engine Light will also illuminate when the code is set to indicate an issue exists. Finally, you may find that the throttle sticks at any RPM, and you cannot change the position."

I had everything except the "stickiness".

"One of the first causes of the P2138 code is a defective ECM. Circuit problems, such as spoiled or corroded wires or faulty connections, can also cause the issue. You will often find that a defective throttle position sensor can cause the code to set. A damaged throttle body will also lead to the ECM setting of the P2138 code and damaged wiring or sensors of the accelerator pedal. These are leading causes of the issue because they inhibit the ECM from gathering and correlating the voltages to keep the vehicle operating as it should. Finally, the ECM may need a software update if it’s not working normally, or you may need to replace the ECM altogether in rarer cases."

Humm... ECM is $1,000 part! I see why they won't rush to change that.

 

[G-252127]

I'm logging it's activation down every trip in case I see a pattern. Anyway, here is the text of what they wrote on my paperwork in regards to the problem . It was written on the invoice -- they charged me nothing though.

"Tech scanned for DTC and a history code for P213800 accelerator pedal code. Tech checked connections to the pedal, everything is tight. Tech is advised concern can come present due to e-brake being applied and stretching cable over pedal harness ..."

When I looked up the code is said the two pedal position sensors disagreed. So I thought I needed to change sensors. But I take the statement above to mean the tech interpreted it as a loose sensor that was out of position. But nothing was loose. These sensors never go bad? Just get loose?

According to Kelly Blue Book (https://www.kbb.com/obd-ii/p2138/) concerning the sensors:

"However, when they deviate for two or more seconds, the ECM triggers the P2138 code to indicate a malfunction somewhere in the system."

"The first symptom you may notice with the P2138 code is a sudden loss of power at cruising speeds. Next, your vehicle may experience trouble with acceleration and loss of power, and unresponsiveness from the engine. The Check Engine Light will also illuminate when the code is set to indicate an issue exists. Finally, you may find that the throttle sticks at any RPM, and you cannot change the position."

I had everything except the "stickiness".

"One of the first causes of the P2138 code is a defective ECM. Circuit problems, such as spoiled or corroded wires or faulty connections, can also cause the issue. You will often find that a defective throttle position sensor can cause the code to set. A damaged throttle body will also lead to the ECM setting of the P2138 code and damaged wiring or sensors of the accelerator pedal. These are leading causes of the issue because they inhibit the ECM from gathering and correlating the voltages to keep the vehicle operating as it should. Finally, the ECM may need a software update if it’s not working normally, or you may need to replace the ECM altogether in rarer cases."

Humm... ECM is $1,000 part! I see why they won't rush to change that.

Have kia or you figured out the problem? Ive been having this problem for about 2 years but mines out of warranty for all electrical components. So ive just been restarting my car 3 times to reset it and get rid of the engine code temporarily

 

[Deviate]

I'm logging it's activation down every trip in case I see a pattern. Anyway, here is the text of what they wrote on my paperwork in regards to the problem . It was written on the invoice -- they charged me nothing though.

"Tech scanned for DTC and a history code for P213800 accelerator pedal code. Tech checked connections to the pedal, everything is tight. Tech is advised concern can come present due to e-brake being applied and stretching cable over pedal harness ..."

When I looked up the code is said the two pedal position sensors disagreed. So I thought I needed to change sensors. But I take the statement above to mean the tech interpreted it as a loose sensor that was out of position. But nothing was loose. These sensors never go bad? Just get loose?

According to Kelly Blue Book (https://www.kbb.com/obd-ii/p2138/) concerning the sensors:

"However, when they deviate for two or more seconds, the ECM triggers the P2138 code to indicate a malfunction somewhere in the system."

"The first symptom you may notice with the P2138 code is a sudden loss of power at cruising speeds. Next, your vehicle may experience trouble with acceleration and loss of power, and unresponsiveness from the engine. The Check Engine Light will also illuminate when the code is set to indicate an issue exists. Finally, you may find that the throttle sticks at any RPM, and you cannot change the position."

I had everything except the "stickiness".

"One of the first causes of the P2138 code is a defective ECM. Circuit problems, such as spoiled or corroded wires or faulty connections, can also cause the issue. You will often find that a defective throttle position sensor can cause the code to set. A damaged throttle body will also lead to the ECM setting of the P2138 code and damaged wiring or sensors of the accelerator pedal. These are leading causes of the issue because they inhibit the ECM from gathering and correlating the voltages to keep the vehicle operating as it should. Finally, the ECM may need a software update if it’s not working normally, or you may need to replace the ECM altogether in rarer cases."

Humm... ECM is $1,000 part! I see why they won't rush to change that.

Have kia or you figured out the problem? Ive been having this problem for about 2 years but mines out of warranty for all electrical components. So ive just been restarting my car 3 times to reset it and get rid of the engine code temporarily

Either one of tou bave a pedal tuner? If so disconnect it to eliminate that. As for the recall work, was the hpfp replaced? If not it may be your issue. The update is a bandaid on a broken arm. All the pumps should have been replaced imo. Kia, i believe was only really doing replacement if a light was on. Of course mine just took a shit and is currently in the shop. Luckily my warranty covered it since the recall was already done, just the update at the time.

Ive had all the symptoms that were in your search for a long time. Just never got a code to show its face. I couldn't convince them the pump was bad until now

 

[G-506506]

Mines is just the p2138 code. Mines does not have the hpfp recall.

 

[G-340705]

Either one of tou bave a pedal tuner? If so disconnect it to eliminate that. As for the recall work, was the hpfp replaced? If not it may be your issue. The update is a bandaid on a broken arm. All the pumps should have been replaced imo. Kia, i believe was only really doing replacement if a light was on. Of course mine just took a shit and is currently in the shop. Luckily my warranty covered it since the recall was already done, just the update at the time.

Ive had all the symptoms that were in your search for a long time. Just never got a code to show its face. I couldn't convince them the pump was bad until now

No pedal tuner and no fuel pump replacement - just a software upgrade they told me.

Now it it has been a few months and the car is acting as if there was never a problem. The recall didn't impact performance at all.

 

[HanStinger]

It's happened again. I was driving at constant speed on the highway behind a truck and decided to change to the left lane. I looked in the side mirror and so car moving up but I had space if I went now, hit the turn signal, jabbed on the gas .... no acceleration. Suddenly the computer voice told me there was a big problem and the check engine light came on.

I went to the right lane and limped along. I was able to do highway speed but the throttle was not responsive. I pulled over. Shut down. Restarted. The car acted normal but the CE light was still on. It remained on for few days but the car acted normal. Then it was gone. But the code as in the system and it was the old P2138 again.



I tried duplicating the problem after the light went out. I went on the highway and drove at constant speed and then jabbed the pedal. But I could not cause the error.

Warranty expiring this summer. How to convince the dealer to replace the sensors? They just inspected them last time. But this is an intermittent problem and I can't make it happen to show them.

 

[Deviate]

It's happened again. I was driving at constant speed on the highway behind a truck and decided to change to the left lane. I looked in the side mirror and so car moving up but I had space if I went now, hit the turn signal, jabbed on the gas .... no acceleration. Suddenly the computer voice told me there was a big problem and the check engine light came on.

I went to the right lane and limped along. I was able to do highway speed but the throttle was not responsive. I pulled over. Shut down. Restarted. The car acted normal but the CE light was still on. It remained on for few days but the car acted normal. Then it was gone. But the code as in the system and it was the old P2138 again.

View attachment 89367

I tried duplicating the problem after the light went out. I went on the highway and drove at constant speed and then jabbed the pedal. But I could not cause the error.

Warranty expiring this summer. How to convince the dealer to replace the sensors? They just inspected them last time. But this is an intermittent problem and I can't make it happen to show them.

Car getting stuck at like 2000 rpms? Will slowly climb but the car really aint going anywhere?

 

[HanStinger]

Car getting stuck at like 2000 rpms? Will slowly climb but the car really aint going anywhere?

I didn't look at the RPM I was looking at the cautionary words that the info screen had thrown up and then at the speed.

 

[Deviate]

I didn't look at the RPM I was looking at the cautionary words that the info screen had thrown up and then at the speed.

Yea dont blame ya there. Any mods?

 

[HanStinger]

Yea dont blame ya there. Any mods?

No mods at all. I'm actually at the Kia dealership right now. They say because the check engine light went off they probably won't find anything.

 

[HanStinger]

Just came back from the dealer. They said they couldn't do anything about the throttle position code because the CE light was out. It has to be on for them to diagnosis. All they found was "accelerator pedal connector routed improperly and stretching the wires unplugged and routed correctly". They didn't emphasize that that was the problem.

 

[Thomby]

They said they couldn't do anything about the throttle position code because the CE light was out. It has to be on for them to diagnosis. All they found was "accelerator pedal connector routed improperly and stretching the wires unplugged and routed correctly"

It sounds like they found the issue...if the cable was rerouted and the code is gone, what's left to diagnose? If you're worried about it coming back at an in opportune time, you can check to see if the wires are loose at the connector, or wiggle it around with the car running to see if it loses connectivity and throws another code.

 

[HanStinger]

I was cleaning the car and think I might have a bolt missing on the firewall behind the brake pedal. Can someone tell me if their Stinger has the bolt? Also, compare my bolts with this other guy on the forum who has screw threads there only: Brake Pedal (guard?)