Bad Steelership blaming catch can for oil leak

[Redvoodoo55]

Shortly after getting the turbo oil line recall work done on my 19' GT1 w/ 63k miles I started to smell burning oil after a drive. I schedule a service appointment at my local Kia Dealership to have it checked out and some regular maintenance. After a couple hours my SA, who is a great guy & fellow enthusiast, tells me that the Tech claims that the slight bends in my oil catch can lines are causing increased air pressure in the engine which is cause oil to leak past the o-ring on the drivers side exhaust camshaft position sensor and since it is not warrantable the cost to replace it would be $785.63!!. Me knowing that the bends in my CC hoses are not obstructing airflow, I told the to only do the regular maintenance and I would check this out myself.

Saturday 1/22 I sent 4 hours with the car on jack stands with the upper and underneath engine covers off inspecting the size and scope of the oil lean, checking the CC hoses, and analyzing where oil was observed in relationship to where the exhaust camshaft oil sensor is located. Based on what I found I am fairly confident that sensor is not the source of the lean and I am 100% sure that the slight bends in the CC hoses is not the cause of the oil leak. The sheer amount and location of the oil leaked suggests it likely not the sensor that is leaking past the o-ring. There was oil on top of the driver side head, around the area of the sensor, drivers side downpipe heat shielding, mid-pipe, drivers side suspension parts, Both driver's and passenger side subframe, entire oil pan cover, front of oil pan, transmission cover, the underneath engine cover was soaked to point it soaked all the way through onto both sides, and just many other places, well there was a lot of oil in a lot of places. In order for oil to get on top of the head by the drivers side coil packs and on the front side of that big foam protector the oil would have had to shoot upward against gravity without hitting the engine cover or the underside hood insulation because there was no oil in either of those places. I suspect the leak source is either a leaking/blown head gasket, leaking turbo, oil line leak, or maybe a combination of one/some of these and an oil pan seal leak.

I took some videos but the are between 2-3 minutes so I can't post them here. I was pretty frustrated and pissed that I have to go through the trouble of doing their job in my garage on jack stands. If I am correct in my assessments that it is not the sensor leaking and the hose bends are not the cause, that means that the Tech and/or Service Mgmt are either incompetent, lazy, or playing games to avoid a warranty claim. No matter the reason behind their position, what was done is very poor customer service!! I would love to hear everyone's opinions and advice on how to handle the situation! I welcome the feedback even if you think I am wrong.

 

[Thomby]

I suspect the leak source is either a leaking/blown head gasket, leaking turbo, oil line leak, or maybe a combination of one/some of these and an oil pan seal leak.

That's a lot of potential sources, so probably best to start narrowing it down. Was any other maintenance done along with the oil line recall, or was that the only change when it appeared? And have you tried cleaning up all the oil and trying to find the source?

I'd start by letting the engine idle while you look under the hood, then revving it if the leak isn't obvious, and going for a short drive if it's still not showing up. Simplest answer would be the replaced oil line itself vs. some unrelated turbo or head gasket problem.

I don't think any other oil connections besides the line itself are opened for the recall, so unless they got creative while doing it, that line should be the likely culprit. The instructions do specify not to reuse the oil bolt or oil pipe gaskets, so it's possible they reused them and that's the source.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

That's a lot of potential sources, so probably best to start narrowing it down. Was any other maintenance done along with the oil line recall, or was that the only change when it appeared? And have you tried cleaning up all the oil and trying to find the source?

I'd start by letting the engine idle while you look under the hood, then revving it if the leak isn't obvious, and going for a short drive if it's still not showing up. Simplest answer would be the replaced oil line itself vs. some unrelated turbo or head gasket problem.

I don't think any other oil connections besides the line itself are opened for the recall, so unless they got creative while doing it, that line should be the likely culprit. The instructions do specify not to reuse the oil bolt or oil pipe gaskets, so it's possible they reused them and that's the source.

During the recall to replace the oil line they just did an oil change and was done included as part of the work.

I did have the car idle while looking to see if I could see the source of the oil leak. I also had someone rev the engine for me as I looked as well but with no luck.

I am taking it back on Tuesday and will mention for them to check and confirm whether a new bolt and gasket were used during the recall. To me the timing of the oil leak starting after the recall service points to it being the source of the problem since the car was not leaking oil before that service.

 

[Thomby]

I did have the car idle while looking to see if I could see the source of the oil leak. I also had someone rev the engine for me as I looked as well but with no luck.

Did you clean up all the existing oil? Even a slow leak can create a pretty big mess over time and while driving down the road, so it might be hard to spot if it's everywhere. Cleaning it up as best you can and then going for a short drive should help you find the new oil before it gets so many places you can't nail down the source.

If all they touched were the oil line itself, the filter, and the drain bolt, that would really point to oil line connection, because even if it was one of the other two, it's not going to end up at the top of the engine.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

Did you clean up all the existing oil? Even a slow leak can create a pretty big mess over time and while driving down the road, so it might be hard to spot if it's everywhere. Cleaning it up as best you can and then going for a short drive should help you find the new oil before it gets so many places you can't nail down the source.

If all they touched were the oil line itself, the filter, and the drain bolt, that would really point to oil line connection, because even if it was one of the other two, it's not going to end up at the top of the engine.

Yes, I did a pretty good clean up job. I agree that everything seems to point to the oil line recall job. So I think part of the issue is that my SA insisted that the Tech that did the recall work be the person to analyze the oil leak and he could have just been trying to cover his ass. Luckily, after talking to the Service Mgr., he is going to put his head Tech to look at the leak when I bring the car back tomorrow.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

Yes, I did a pretty good clean up job. I agree that everything seems to point to the oil line recall job. So I think part of the issue is that my SA insisted that the Tech that did the recall work be the person to analyze the oil leak and he could have just been trying to cover his ass. Luckily, after talking to the Service Mgr., he is going to put his head Tech to look at the leak when I bring the car back tomorrow.

I also plan to mention what was said regarding making sure that the old bolt and gasket were not reused.

 

[Thomby]

Yes, I did a pretty good clean up job. I agree that everything seems to point to the oil line recall job.

You could try putting a couple of rags against the connection points and then repeat the idle & rev tests. But if that doesn't work, you probably don't want to risk a test drive with them near the really hot stuff like the turbine housing & exhaust...your active oil leak around those already has some degree of fire risk.

If it was enough of a leak to get oil everywhere, yet hasn't showed up during idle/rev tests, it may need some combination of engine heat, pressure/rpm, and engine/body movement, so your best bet may just be a few more drives, spirited enough to let the leak do its thing, but brief enough to catch the start of the leak before it gets everywhere again.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

So, I dropped the Stinger back off at the dealership and talked with the Service Director. They are going have their Head Technician inspect and add oil dye to the engine and truly find where the leak is coming from! This is what I would have expected them to do the first time I dropped the car off but at least now the source will be. My SA believes it is either related to the oil line recall work or the driver's side valve cover gasket. I tend to agree with his assessment but we shall see.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

Update 1/29: I dropped the Stinger back off at the dealer and showed the Service Director with my SA present all that I found during my own inspection and I reiterated my position that the leak has to do with the recall work that was done several months earlier. I reviewed the recall instruction document and noticed that the removal of the exhaust camshaft position sensor is 4 steps before removing the oil feed pipe nuts and that connection is in the same area as the sensor. So either things were not torqued down correctly or old gaskets/nuts were reused instead of new replacements.

Also, I was given advice on how to get my videos upload and into the thread:

Videos:
Under car: Watch Sting_under | Streamable
Sensor: Watch Sensor | Streamable
Hoses: Watch Hoses | Streamable

 

[Redvoodoo55]

OK Dealers Service Dept sent me this picture of the Exhaust Camshaft Sensor and the o-ring on it is damaged but not in the way I would think increased air pressure would or could damage it. To me this looks like it was pinched/damaged during re-installation during the oil feed pipe recall. Do you agree/disagree?

 

[Thomby]

To me this looks like it was pinched/damaged during re-installation during the oil feed pipe recall

Of course that's what it looks like. It looks like they either reused an old one, didn't lubricate the new one, or used the tightening of the bolts to pull it into place without first seating it fully. Are they suggesting otherwise?

 

[Redvoodoo55]

Of course that's what it looks like. It looks like they either reused an old one, didn't lubricate the new one, or used the tightening of the bolts to pull it into place without first seating it fully. Are they suggesting otherwise?

They originally claimed my bent catch can hoses increase valve cover pressure to cause highly pressurized oil to move past the o-ring or in this case now damage the o-ring.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

Dealer responded that they do realize this damage was caused by improper re-installation during the oil feed pipe recall. What a Dog and Pony Show this has been! I was telling them that the recall work was likely the cause from the beginning due to the timing of the start of the oil leak!

 

[Redvoodoo55]

I got my Stinger back from the dealership after they replaced the exhaust camshaft position sensor and "cleaned" up the oil. No other oil leaks were detected using the oil dye. I brought it home and found that the car is still smoking off oil from the downpipe/heat shielding, which I suppose I should expect some of that. I just hope that does not continue much longer.

I did voice my displeasure with how this thing was handled in the beginning and pointed out that the Average Joe would have just gotten ripped off by paying them to do the work. I expressed that I had been bringing my Stinger there for regular maintenance since it was new and this experience really put a sour taste in my mouth and makes me question whether I should return or not.

 

[Volfy]

How bent was your catch can hose? I cannot imagine them pointing finger at it, unless the bend is severe enough to kink the hose shut.

 

[Snicklefritz]

I got my Stinger back from the dealership after they replaced the exhaust camshaft position sensor and "cleaned" up the oil. No other oil leaks were detected using the oil dye. I brought it home and found that the car is still smoking off oil from the downpipe/heat shielding, which I suppose I should expect some of that. I just hope that does not continue much longer.

I did voice my displeasure with how this thing was handled in the beginning and pointed out that the Average Joe would have just gotten ripped off by paying them to do the work. I expressed that I had been bringing my Stinger there for regular maintenance since it was new and this experience really put a sour taste in my mouth and makes me question whether I should return or not.

I understand what you are saying. Had I experienced even a shadow of what you have shared here, the "honeymoon" would definitely have ended badly. By not getting the recall done I have maintained good relations, ha hah.

I've been taking my '18 GT1 and '19 Premium since I bought them from the same dealer, to the same dealer for regular maintenance, and the couple of minor warranty diagnostics and resulting repairs that I have needed done. Now that both vehicles are out of the 60K miles / five years bumper to bumper warranty, and only powertrain warranty remains, I am going to return to our family mechanic for all other service. Even oil changes from now on. Ima sure that our guys can do regular oil changes for even less than KIA's discounted two changes package. As for any electrical work, we just hope that doesn't come up anytime soon! But the dealer will undoubtedly charge more for any of that as well.

 

[Redvoodoo55]

How bent was your catch can hose? I cannot imagine them pointing finger at it, unless the bend is severe enough to kink the hose shut.

This hose had the most extreme bend but the CC was full of blowby and I took off the hose, held it at that angle and a more extreme one and was able to blow air with no obstruction.

 

[Snowwhite]

I've had to switch dealers 3 times now. One billed me a diagnostic fee on a warranty item; the second dropped my nephew's K5 from the lift and tried to hide the damage and blame HIM for it; the third refused to replace my brake booster on three separate repair attempts after I repeatedly told them that was the problem and well documented everywhere.

And that is why this will be my last Kia/Hyundai. Luckily, it is quite reliable, so I don't have to go to dealers much.

 

[Volfy]

This hose had the most extreme bend but the CC was full of blowby and I took off the hose, held it at that angle and a more extreme one and was able to blow air with no obstruction.

Neither of those two hoses would impede flow enough to cause any appreciable crankcase pressure rise. Not even close to possible.

That said, could your hose routing be done a bit better? Yeah... But it was a big stretch to jump all the way to saying the slight kink in the hose caused your oil leak. There is about as much plausible causation as a mouse fart. That is just their way to shifting blame on anything they can point finger at.

FWIW, just as a reference, my son did these on his G70 6MT Sport, with my guidance. It's 2.0T, but the hose routing game is similarly played. We actually reused the inlet hose, since it has the bends pre-molded in already. The other "outlet' hose is done with generic fuel hose cut to the "right" length. What's "right" depends on each install. Play with the hose a bit and it will tell you how it wants to bend - too long or too short will worsen the bend. Somewhere in between... there is a goldilocks position, where the hose is the most relaxed and happy (as shown). Also, it helped that the way we fabbed the mounting "L" bracket, we can swivel it horizontally to get the optimum angle, where both hoses are at their happiest place.

IMO, the red OCC (above) is pretty much unnecessary. We rarely see anything more than a few tiny specs of oil inside the can. But, for less than $30... why not.

The blue OCC (below) does the real work. With a custom-fabbed L-bracket, the hoses are basically straight shot.

 

[StingerKMA]

When they replaced the turbo feed line they have to remove the drivers side exhuast cam sensor to install the updated dipstick tube. I guarantee you they 100% caused the oil leak by either starting the car without the cam sensor and made a huge mess or they didn't torqued down the 10mm bolt