Shared 3.3L

[turboAWD]

If you want a boosted engine, get one that's built to be boosted. Again, unless you're a mechanic experienced at engine internals work.

This. Upgrading an engine that COMES with a turbo (like a WRX/STI, Legacy GT in my case, etc) is SO much easier, because all the requirements are there. Just need to upgrade the components and re-tune. Assuming you can crack the ECU - much easier on a Subaru..

 

[westcoastGT]

This thread is about 20 posts too long already ....................

 

[Manaz]

Edit: So there is not anything like a cobb tuning port for this car, but could I buy something in order to piggy back the ECU? Or would I just have to go in for a custom tune?

Cobb AccessPort works with the stock ECU, adapting key data tables to make it behave differently to stock. But it doesn't (generally) allow functionality that isn't already there - so generally can't allow you to turbo a non-turbo engine.

Piggy-back ECUs can do it - you want one that uses the stock ECU for most functionality (a lot of the general operation of your car is run from the ECU, so if you disable it, you lose lots of the car functions).

But these are $$$. And not simple to program. And you still have a lot of other things to deal with (physical modifications to make the NA engine suitable for turbocharging - lower compression ratios are one thing, but then you need to consider how your engine will hold in the combustion pressures (so you're talking head gasket and head stud changes), whether the stock pistons/rods/bearings are up to forced induction pressure loads), whether the head design is suited to forced induction, what your inlet and exhaust manifold designs are (again, are they suitable), does your fuelling system provide enough fuel (at required pressures) etc etc. And that's before you find a location for the turbo/turbos, add additional components to support the turbo/s (intercooler and associated plumbing, intake plenum that can hold the boost, gear for controlling the wastegate, exhaust manifold that can turn the hot side of the turbo/s, a free-er flowing exhaust, can the transmission cope, etc).

The base engine may be related, but it almost certainly has different internal components (forged vs cast, different piston designs, etc) , and if I understand correctly, is transverse mounted in your car vs an inline mounting in the Stinger, meaning different ancilliaries and locations for them.

Improve what you can on the current car, or even better, accept it for what it is, learn to drive it well, and once you're in a position to buy a car more suited for modification, grab that turbo-engined vehicle, and once you've explored it's capabilities and have adjusted suspension, braking, etc, THEN look at power upgrades. By that stage, both you and the car will be much better able to handle the extra power you more easily, cheaply and reliably extract.

 

[turboAWD]

Edit: So there is not anything like a cobb tuning port for this car, but could I buy something in order to piggy back the ECU? Or would I just have to go in for a custom tune?

If you're still asking this question - you don't know enough to attempt this project.. Have you ever changed a fuel pump or injectors? What kind of pump is on the Azera? Both a LPFP and a HPFP? Which model, what flow rates? What is the injector size on the Stinger? Top feed or side feed? What capacity fuel rail? Can you retrofit the Stinger's pump, fuel rails, injectors?

Nothing like adding a turbo, only to find out your fuel system was already running at 80-85%, and the best you can safely do is 2 psi before you run out of fuel...

 

[Pnbnationsbest]

Hey everyone!

Alright, so first off, yes I have tried searching for this, but I haven't been able to find anything on this topic but I might not be wording it right so if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be helpful and I'm sorry if this has already been asked/discussed.

ALRIGHT, so I bought a Hyundai Azera, and the Azera and Stinger share the same 3.3L engine but we have the N/A G6DH and y'all have the G6DP and to my knowledge the only real differences mechanically are the twin turbos and some modifications to handle the turbos.

The compression ration for the G6DH is 11:5:1 and the Stingers is 10:0:1.

My question is, how did they lower the compression ratio by so much? Because I would like to take a turbo from a stinger and put it into the Azera, but my compression ratio is substantially higher than the Stingers. So how did the lower the compression ratio? And could I do what they did to the Azera?

I would bet the Stinger pistons are either negatively domed or have a dimple and bevel reliefs cut in it like an EcoBoost engine

 

[Chipmunk]

Again, thank y'all for the replies, I've gotten a lot more replies to this then I thought so thank y'all! But with this, let me clarify some things..

The turbo (if I did it at all) would be a couple down years down the line, not even within the year, probably within 2-3 years......

And now, for the ECU tune that I was talking about for something to piggy back off of it was in relation to the car being non-turboed, so maybe after I did an aftermarket exhaust because the Azera does run a bit rich, and it was designed this way.

if you're going into college, I wouldn't put FI on your car at all. You're asking for not only a crap load of downtime, there's a good chance you'll grenade your engine. I guess your parents are well off since you're driving an almost brand new car so if you know 100% they'll just buy you a new car if you kill yours, maybe it's ok but still. Trying to make an exam and not having your car turn over is a recipe for disaster.

You'll have plenty of time to tinker on cars after you graduate, it really shouldn't be a priority for you right now. As someone who blew up his VW GTI running a 50 trim turbo his freshman year of college, trust me on this one.

Lol yeah, I wouldn't turbo it until I got a second car, so thats why I was thinking about doing it a couple years down the line.

But no, funny story about the car, I found a really good deal on it, so good in fact that I drove 4 hours to go get the car, which SUCKED because I did it twice And also I work at a bank and get paid pretty decent and was able to get a loan, so again, nothing would happen to this car until it got paid off but yeah.

You make this sound easy. And it's not. If you're an experienced mechanic in engine internals, that's one thing. I'm certainly not and wouldn't go near what you're thinking about without a lot of money, help, and another car to drive while trying to make it work.

I've thought long and hard about a similar path (with a very different car), and ultimately opted to just do everything I could to make it the best I could without forced induction. That boiled down to anything and everything to make it breathe better (intake, throttle body, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, exhaust) and a tuned ECU (flash or aftermarket). But I had a lot of that done by professionals that knew what they were doing and used their own dyno for tuning. The car still could be a bit temperamental to drive, but very manageable.

If you want a boosted engine, get one that's built to be boosted. Again, unless you're a mechanic experienced at engine internals work.

Just my $.02.

Thanks for the response! And honestly this is the route I'll probably go with the car, just make it the best I can with what I got and then leave it in it's N/A form and then just get something that was already boosted like and Evo, or 335i.

 

[Chipmunk]

Again, thank you all for the responses!

So with the ECU response I should've clarified that I was mentioning an ECU piggy back to the N/A engine if I would to upgrade everything stuff like exhaust, intake components, etc. and leave out the turbo

But the route I would probably go now is buy something already turboed and keep the Azera NA and maybe upgrade some its components.

I have been looking at E92/335i or maybe something NA with a lot of aftermarket support and knowledge base like the GT86. But, like I said, this is for later down the line

 

[Doel]

Again, thank you all for the responses!

So with the ECU response I should've clarified that I was mentioning an ECU piggy back to the N/A engine if I would to upgrade everything stuff like exhaust, intake components, etc. and leave out the turbo

But the route I would probably go now is buy something already turboed and keep the Azera NA and maybe upgrade some its components.

I have been looking at E92/335i or maybe something NA with a lot of aftermarket support and knowledge base like the GT86. But, like I said, this is for later down the line

I wouldn't bother with an ECU tune on that car, you aren't going to gain much and does anyone even make a piggy back for it? Plus it already has almost 300 hp and it's FWD, as someone who came from a 300 hp Maxima, any more power is essentially a spin understeer fest anyway.

As for a 2nd tuner car, sky's the limit man. Any car with good aftermarket support will be fun to tinker with, just depends on your financial situation and what you're in to. 3 years from now you'll probably be able to snag a base high mile Stinger GT for 20k, just saying

 

[Chipmunk]

MY DUMBASS IS BACK Y'ALL.

Alright, so it's been awhile so I'll give y'all and update on things.......no I'm not gonna turbo the Azera, I'm thinking about doing something MUCH MUCH WORSE,
*cough*
ENGINE SWAP BABBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Not an LS swap lol but swapping a wrecked Stinger engine into the Azera if I can get a wrecked one for cheap enough. Now, someone did mention that I would have to get the 8 speed transmission (so many speeds I don't even know what I would have to do with that).

However, I currently don't have that much knowledge on how everything would line up, this idea just came into my head a couple hours ago so we'll see, and yeahhhhh it might be cheaper to get a Stinger, but that's not what I wanna do, I just wanna make a a sleeper Azera.

One question I do have though is, since it is the same engine (structurally speaking) could I put my 6 speed trans on it rather than the 8 speed? Or am I thinking of this wrong because I know some people have been able to engine swap, keep their stock trans, but put in the clucth from the donor car (now again, thats with manuals, and not with autos so I'm not sure).

Hope y'all had a Merry Christmas!

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

Just to get a few things out of the way (my only credentials being someone who has spent plenty of hours dicking with N/A to boosted conversions and engine swaps in much simpler, much less electronically-intrusive older GM cars).

Stinger engine in an Azera: Right off the bat, the 3.3T engine is designed for longitudinal mounting and is not installed by Kia/Hyundai in any transversely mounted configuration. It's completely possible that all of the correct mounting bosses are already in the block, but it's also entirely unlikely. GM did this with the 3800 Series II for example, but it was also just a cost cutting measure since THAT specific block was shared between longitudinal and transversely mounted applications. This is not accounting for any other clearance issues, just simply the most basic part of physically installing the block in the car.

Transmissions: As long as the bellhousing is the same between FWD and RWD applications, it really doesn't matter. Physically anyway. Electronically is a whole different story. A RWD transmission isn't going to work in your setup. You don't have any choice but to use what's already in your car or some other electronically compatible Kia/Hyundai FWD transmission.

Bolting on turbo stuff: Again, the packaging of the 3.3T and it's manifolds, are designed for clearance around a longitudinally mounted configuration. I would be extremely surprised if you could simply bolt on the Stinger/K900/Gx0 manifolds and turbos and not have clearance issues hitting the firewall in the back or the radiator fans up front. This doesn't include all of the necessary fabrication for the exhaust.

At the end of the day: I'm a fan of sleepers, I completely get it. I own a relatively built FWD Buick Regal that drinks ethanol and runs 12s. It's a laudable goal. However, I'm also in my 30s with no kids and I have a budget for bullshit that I know I'll never see any dividends from. I've learned a lot in 15 years of wrenching on shitboxes. I also don't need to drive the car every day nor do I rely on it for any serious transportation. My first go at this idea was when I was a teenager and knew barely enough to be dangerous. Same type of car, same engine, but with much worse results that consistently ended with me having an unreliable, nearly undriveable moneypit. The current incarnation of the Regal wasn't cheap, and at the end of the day, it still can't go, stop, handle, or be as comfortable as my Stinger is. It's an utterly pointless car that I built because I'm probably having some bizarre early mid-life crisis and wanted to relive some dream 16-year-old Me had.

An additional two pennies: If you are truly bought into this idea and no one can change your mind, don't waste your time trying to play "junkyard legos" and attempting to get OEM stuff to work in this application. Read and learn everything you can about turbocharging and fabricate your own single turbo setup. Going about this trying to use the OEM parts is way more difficult than doing something bespoke.

But really: don't mess with your car. If you want something fast, get something that's fast (or at least designed for it) out of the box. Take it from someone who has been there, done that, and got the emotional scars/t-shirt to prove it.

 

[Chipmunk]

Holy crap thank you for the feedback! Much better and constructive than the "if you have enough money" "Dont waste your time" etc that some people normally give.

Here's my responses:

Stinger engine in an Azera/Turbo: The mounting is for sure gonna be the biggest deal breaker for the build if I were to do it and that is something I'm going to have to look into! As for clearance, I don't know how I would do with clearance vertically (i.e. the oil pan dragging) but horizantially I should be good, if not then I would be cutting it close. The Azera as it sits has a huge amount of room behind the engine, it's kind of suprising, but I still need to measure everything out.

Transmissions: If the engine lines up then this will be the next biggest thing. Like you said, electronically this thing will be a PAIN so more research is needed on my part.

Bolting on turbo stuff: Like you said, a lot would probably have to be fabricated, and I figured as much, which will be one part nice because we'll get everything to fit, but on the other hand it'll suck because I need to make everything from scratch.

But really: Who knows if I'll do this, I might not, but even if I don't, maybe the next guy can take this info and run with it and do something crazy. Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[moinmoin]

But really

LOL, just reading this thread...kind of fitting and funny so close to year's end. Without wishing to hurt anybody's feelings, and I apologize if I do,
but "Chipmunk" and "Nuts" in the above context just seem to go so well together...

Hoping that you will make good decisions in future, here to a successful 2020. Santé!

 

[Chark]

Genesis G80 Sport, perhaps?

 

[Kimberly Lazarski]

I know it's an old thread but on the STI thing: anything past 400whp (or 450whp if you actively seek to avoid hard launches off the line) you'll need to upgrade engine internals since the EJ25 pistons and rods are seemingly made of glass. I was looking into a WRX STI because c.diff is so dang sweet (I wish Kia would offer a similar setup in the Stinger with front/rear/center locking diffs) and to get a RELIABLE 450whp-500whp setup you can thrash all day long, you need to upgrade the whole short block to a closed-deck setup with forged internals. I'd be looking at $22K for the build, and with the EJ25 being the EJ25, it'd still be prone to spun bearings. I almost went forward with it anyhow, then I realized I didn't want to spend $48,860 on a car with an econobox interior and only 310bhp and the dealer's unwilling to help source the parts for me to install the few JDM safety features available for the STI.

You can turbocharge a high-compression engine, but you'll need to go with a low-pressure turbo setup, and the gains won't be worth the money, or alternatively, you could run a full-time meth injection system, but methanol tends to eat the valves and piston rings and contaminates the oil very quickly. For power gains that are reliable on pump gas, there is no avoiding lowering the compression ratio by opening up the combustion chambers on the heads, swapping in low-compression pistons, or a thicker head gasket (a thicker head gasket will generally be more prone to burning and blowing). The torque steer with the setup will be rather annoying to deal with.

I agree with Chark; look at the G80 instead, or G70 or Stinger..

 

[turboAWD]

Seriously - if you want a sleeper 4 door sedan, find a lightly used Chevy SS and add a Whipple SS kit to it. ~600-650 hp. Done. With only some issues, depending on tuner, etc. Looks like a Malibu/Impala. Runs 11s. Or do an LSA swap + supercharger, seems to be able to get into 10s.

Or, talk to Bisimoto who did a turbo conversion on a Honda Odyssey and has previously done 700+ hp Sonata and 600+ hp Elantra. At least he knows Hyundai/Kia.

Unless of course, you enjoy having a lot of random parts all over your garage and undriveable cars in the driveway