Shared 3.3L

[Chipmunk]

Hey everyone!

Alright, so first off, yes I have tried searching for this, but I haven't been able to find anything on this topic but I might not be wording it right so if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be helpful and I'm sorry if this has already been asked/discussed.

ALRIGHT, so I bought a Hyundai Azera, and the Azera and Stinger share the same 3.3L engine but we have the N/A G6DH and y'all have the G6DP and to my knowledge the only real differences mechanically are the twin turbos and some modifications to handle the turbos.

The compression ration for the G6DH is 11:5:1 and the Stingers is 10:0:1.

My question is, how did they lower the compression ratio by so much? Because I would like to take a turbo from a stinger and put it into the Azera, but my compression ratio is substantially higher than the Stingers. So how did the lower the compression ratio? And could I do what they did to the Azera?

 

[Manaz]

Shorter stroke, thicker head-gaskets, different heads, different pistons, there are a few ways to lower compression ratio.

It's generally not a simple matter to retro-fit a turbo to a non-turbo engine. The differences between an NA and a turbo engine are much more substantial than just the turbos themselves - the compression ratio difference is only one of the things you need to address.

 

[Chipmunk]

Thanks for the reply!

Would these be easily transferable to the G6DH?

This is true, but for the Azera the compression ratio was going to be one of my biggest issues, I already have a plan for upgraded brakes, suspension, sway bars, etc. its just more the technical stuff I need to figure out

 

[MerlintheMad]

Hi, ambitious one! Welcome to the forum, even if we don't see/hear much from you after you get your technical questions asked and answered (hopefully).

 

[Thrashmetl]

Shorter stroke, thicker head-gaskets, different heads, different pistons, there are a few ways to lower compression ratio.

It's generally not a simple matter to retro-fit a turbo to a non-turbo engine. The differences between an NA and a turbo engine are much more substantial than just the turbos themselves - the compression ratio difference is only one of the things you need to address.

If you didn’t already know any of this, then it’s definitely a bigger job than you can handle.

 

[Chipmunk]

Hi, ambitious one! Welcome to the forum, even if we don't see/hear much from you after you get your technical questions asked and answered (hopefully).

Thanks!

If you didn’t already know any of this, then it’s definitely a bigger job than you can handle.

Well I wasn't sure, I've been discussing it with some of the people the on club3g forums (3G Eclipse) and they said to ask y'all how the engineers did it, because I went over to the Azera forums and the hardly have a welcome page really, plus there's hardly any aftermarket support for the car as well so that's why I came here Also, this isn't something I would do anytime soon, probably in a couple years just because this is currently my daily, and there's so much I have to figure out about this engine and turboing. Only one other person has ever boosted this car, and he's a bit of a myth and the video of his boosted Azera can't be found anymore so I'm legit shooting in the dark with this

 

[westcoastGT]

Why ....................... just by a used Stinger ..........................then rebadge it as an Azera !

 

[turboAWD]

This question got asked ALL the time on the Subaru forums for the 4th gen Legacy - some came with 2.5 N/A and some with 2.5 turbo. And even there, the answer was: SELL the N/A, BUY a turbo.

You'll spend either $25K or 18 months full-time getting a turbo to run right on an Azera, IF you ever manage it. Seriously, unless you've built full racing cars before, done standalone ignition/ECU, ONLY want this as a racing car, never need to pass any kind of smog and don't need the car to be street legal, this is NOT the way you want to proceed. If you don't already know everything you need to do this, please don't try. It's like a level 9/10 in terms of difficulty.

Turbo requires new up-pipe/down-pipes, or, I believe in the Stinger's case, an integrated exhaust manifold to drive the turbos. Unless that manifold fits directly onto your Azera (I'd give it a 10% chance) AND there's clearance for it in the engine bay, you'll have to make new brackets, etc.. And of course, you need TWO turbos, two such manifolds, etc. That's probably $5K in factory parts, if not more, right there.

THEN you'll have to run new vacuum lines, oil lines, add an intercooler somewhere that merges the boosted air, split that output back into separate throttle bodies, and find a way to hook your exhaust pipes to the new exhaust manifold. Or do a full new muffler for $2-3k. Never mind opening up the engine to reduce compression - unless you're an engine machinist, that's like $2-3k in labor from a mechanic + parts. IF you can find parts that fit. With no guarantees.

And even if you get ALL that to fit, THEN you get the joy of trying to crack the ECU. Since the Azera is N/A, it's unlikely to be cracked. And even if it is, it probably doesn't have ANY capabilities for handling boost, wastegate duty cycle, etc. So you'll have to fit a standalone ECU. And then you'll have to tune it. And then hope the regular ECU will accept that, and won't constantly disable ABS, air bags, any advanced driving aid, drive by wire, steer by wire, traction control, stability control, etc.

And then, if you get all that to work, then you'll need someone to build your transmission so it doesn't break the first time you put down 200 more hp than stock. That's minimum $5k.

Sure, ANYTHING can be done with enough $$$$. It sounds like you're trying to save $$ by upgrading an Azera. Don't do it. Either find someone willing to fit a supercharger kit for you and tune it at 5 psi for 75-80 more hp, or sell the car and buy a faster one.

 

[Manaz]

Thanks for the reply!

Would these be easily transferable to the G6DH?

No. You're talking about significant engineering here. A modern turbo engine isn't just a modern NA engine with a turbo slapped onto it. This may have worked years ago (and even then, not terribly well), but is near-on impossible these days without considerable expense (probably more than the car is worth, certainly more than the changeover price to trade in the current car on a factory turbo model).

This is true, but for the Azera the compression ratio was going to be one of my biggest issues, I already have a plan for upgraded brakes, suspension, sway bars, etc. its just more the technical stuff I need to figure out

Do the brakes and suspension upgrades, absolutely. They can make a car faster around corners. But power upgrades on NA engines are rarely particularly successful except with, as noted, considerable effort and expense.

I don't like giving you bad news, but it's better than giving you false hope.

 

[Doel]

Your only hope would be to drop a 3.3 TT from a wrecked Stinger/G70 into your car. But then your car is FWD and you'll need the 3.3TT 8 speed to make it work, I hope you're an excellent fabricator

But seriously, it'll take a ton of effort, a ton of money, for an extra 70 HP. You would save money by simply buying a Stinger, save a lot of money.

 

[ecko04]

Anything can be done if you have the money and resources to do it. With that being said, unless your pockets are deeper than most and your time is infinite, I’d strongly suggest abandoning this project before it leads you to Chapter 7/11/13.

 

[Kinvara8017]

This thread made my day lmao.. this is like a 20/10 impossible unless your planning on throwing 20k+ at the car..

 

[Oryan]

The car you're proposing as the end result...is called the Kia K900. And to do what you're proposing, reliably, you may as well go buy one.

 

[Thrashmetl]

The car you're proposing as the end result...is called the Kia K900. And to do what you're proposing, reliably, you may as well go buy one.

The K900 is much bigger than an Azera.

 

[turboAWD]

The K900 is much bigger than an Azera.

Sure, but it's a much better bargain for a "more powerful Kia sedan" than trying to retrofit a Stinger turbo to an Azera.. The "bigger" tradeoff is one I'd be much more comfortable with than "I hacked in the turbo, and it's been running at 3 psi for a month with only occasional knock"..

 

[Chipmunk]

Thank you all for the replies!

I knew that this would be an insane project if I were to take it on, the reason I thought that engine parts would be swappable was because the 3g eclipse had the 4g64 engine while the 2g/evo had the 4g63 engine, however, with some parts, DOHC, and some fabrication you could basically have the 4g63 engine, not the engine itself, but the components of it (only difference was that the transmission was mounted differently).

I would've bought a stinger, but this is my first car and honestly I would've gotten a G37 but I'm moving out to college soon so I decided not to (again, the idea of turbo charging this thing would be down the road).

However, I have thought about doing a supercharger kit, but I wasn't sure if I would run into the exact same problems.

Honestly, in due time, I will probably upgrade the brakes and swap them for the brembos from the Genesis coupe since they are interchangeable (at least in the front), sway bars, coils, and some other stuff and make it a nice show car, but my mindset is that a racecar is always a showcar, however, not every showcar is a race car


Edit: So there is not anything like a cobb tuning port for this car, but could I buy something in order to piggy back the ECU? Or would I just have to go in for a custom tune?

 

[Thrashmetl]

Sure, but it's a much better bargain for a "more powerful Kia sedan" than trying to retrofit a Stinger turbo to an Azera.. The "bigger" tradeoff is one I'd be much more comfortable with than "I hacked in the turbo, and it's been running at 3 psi for a month with only occasional knock"..

Yes and no. He wants a fast car. While the K900 may be relatively quick, it’s also a boat which will not handle very well due to its size.

 

[turboAWD]

Yes and no. He wants a fast car. While the K900 may be relatively quick, it’s also a boat which will not handle very well due to its size.

With the V8 / RWD and electronic suspension, it'll probably outrun a stock Azera around a track..

 

[Doel]

Thank you all for the replies!

I knew that this would be an insane project if I were to take it on, the reason I thought that engine parts would be swappable was because the 3g eclipse had the 4g64 engine while the 2g/evo had the 4g63 engine, however, with some parts, DOHC, and some fabrication you could basically have the 4g63 engine, not the engine itself, but the components of it (only difference was that the transmission was mounted differently).

I would've bought a stinger, but this is my first car and honestly I would've gotten a G37 but I'm moving out to college soon so I decided not to (again, the idea of turbo charging this thing would be down the road).

However, I have thought about doing a supercharger kit, but I wasn't sure if I would run into the exact same problems.

Honestly, in due time, I will probably upgrade the brakes and swap them for the brembos from the Genesis coupe since they are interchangeable (at least in the front), sway bars, coils, and some other stuff and make it a nice show car, but my mindset is that a racecar is always a showcar, however, not every showcar is a race car


Edit: So there is not anything like a cobb tuning port for this car, but could I buy something in order to piggy back the ECU? Or would I just have to go in for a custom tune?

if you're going into college, I wouldn't put FI on your car at all. You're asking for not only a crap load of downtime, there's a good chance you'll grenade your engine. I guess your parents are well off since you're driving an almost brand new car so if you know 100% they'll just buy you a new car if you kill yours, maybe it's ok but still. Trying to make an exam and not having your car turn over is a recipe for disaster.

You'll have plenty of time to tinker on cars after you graduate, it really shouldn't be a priority for you right now. As someone who blew up his VW GTI running a 50 trim turbo his freshman year of college, trust me on this one.

 

[Kazz]

You make this sound easy. And it's not. If you're an experienced mechanic in engine internals, that's one thing. I'm certainly not and wouldn't go near what you're thinking about without a lot of money, help, and another car to drive while trying to make it work.

I've thought long and hard about a similar path (with a very different car), and ultimately opted to just do everything I could to make it the best I could without forced induction. That boiled down to anything and everything to make it breathe better (intake, throttle body, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, exhaust) and a tuned ECU (flash or aftermarket). But I had a lot of that done by professionals that knew what they were doing and used their own dyno for tuning. The car still could be a bit temperamental to drive, but very manageable.

If you want a boosted engine, get one that's built to be boosted. Again, unless you're a mechanic experienced at engine internals work.

Just my $.02.