Replacement Battery?

[Volfy]

If you own an AGM, you will be well advised to charge it with a charger that has a setting specifically for AGM. Don't take my word on this, here is one battery mfr's warning on this: Here’s How to Charge an AGM Battery and Why It’s Different | Interstate Batteries

Feel free to search for your specific battery mfr's instructions. I have yet to see any that do not list specific instructions for their AGM.

 

[JSolo]

I use this,


This is the 4.5A model form costco. Begs the question how well it does agm as it's a single setting for both. Been using it since I got the car in 8/2021. So far still on the original battery 30+ months later.

 

[Volfy]

I use this,

View attachment 84267
This is the 4.5A model form costco. Begs the question how well it does agm as it's a single setting for both. Been using it since I got the car in 8/2021. So far still on the original battery 30+ months later.

Most smart charger these days are microcontroller-driven, and many have the ability to detect the battery type. You'll be fine as long as the charger is able to apply the recommended 3-stage charge cycle for AGM - bulk (constant current), absorption (constant voltage) and supplemental (float charge).

Is it possible to use a regular charger on AGM batts? Answer is: it depends. best case scenario, your AGM will not reach full SoC (state of charge), which is generally not harmful. That is how most cars' charging system will do. However, if the regular charge is trying to be too smart and apply the wrong charge cycle (or stages), it can overcharge an AGM, causing a decrease in service life expectancy.

 

[Volfy]

Do you have anything to say about lithium ones, besides the cost? I've been using mine ( antigravity brand) for couple of years. No complaints so far.

I have LiFeSO4 batts on all my motorcycles for the past 6-7yrs now. I bought the first one back on Oct 2011 and I still have it. Even though it still performs well, I no longer use it for my road bikes, out of an abundance of caution. It lives in my GSXR600 track bike, which doesn't see much use these days. IMO, the weight saving on a 400 lbs motorcycle that dances on 2 wheels is far more impactful than in a 4000 lbs 4-wheeler. Still, I would buy a LiFeSO4 batt to replace the AGM in my Stinger in a heartbeat, if the price is reasonable enough. IMO, the industry isn't quite there yet, but they are coming down in price. Hopefully, by the time I need to replace mine, I am able to convince myself to splurge on one.

Since you own an Antigravity, you might already know some of the particularities of LiFeSO4, and their caveats (there are always caveats). All of mine are Shorai, and they are very clear on the do's and don'ts. Frequently Asked Questions I would say the most important consideration with LiFeSO4, as with lithium batts in general, is cell balancing. Some LiFeSO4 mfrs claim their batts have balancer built in, and that's good. I myself prefer batts with a separate charge ports that allows me to do that with a dedicated balancer.

I am so used to doing that with my RC car lithium packs that I already have the equipment to do that. Besides, charging/balancing lithium packs externally allows me to monitor each cell voltage and spot any "weak" cell before it can cause damage to the whole pack. Some of the RC car guys go to the nth degree to optimize their lithium packs, for racing purposes. I just backyard-bash my RC monster trucks, so I'm not as anal. However, the RC equipment makers cater to the racers, so the charger/balancers are typically far more sophisticated than what the automotive industry offers.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

I have LiFeSO4 batts on all my motorcycles for the past 6-7yrs now. I bought the first one back on Oct 2011 and I still have it. Even though it still performs well, I no longer use it for my road bikes, out of an abundance of caution. It lives in my GSXR600 track bike, which doesn't see much use these days. IMO, the weight saving on a 400 lbs motorcycle that dances on 2 wheels is far more impactful than in a 4000 lbs 4-wheeler. Still, I would buy a LiFeSO4 batt to replace the AGM in my Stinger in a heartbeat, if the price is reasonable enough. IMO, the industry isn't quite there yet, but they are coming down in price. Hopefully, by the time I need to replace mine, I am able to convince myself to splurge on one.

Since you own an Antigravity, you might already know some of the particularities of LiFeSO4, and their caveats (there are always caveats). All of mine are Shorai, and they are very clear on the do's and don'ts. Frequently Asked Questions I would say the most important consideration with LiFeSO4, as with lithium batts in general, is cell balancing. Some LiFeSO4 mfrs claim their batts have balancer built in, and that's good. I myself prefer batts with a separate charge ports that allows me to do that with a dedicated balancer.

I am so used to doing that with my RC car lithium packs that I already have the equipment to do that. Besides, charging/balancing lithium packs externally allows me to monitor each cell voltage and spot any "weak" cell before it can cause damage to the whole pack. Some of the RC car guys go to the nth degree to optimize their lithium packs, for racing purposes. I just backyard-bash my RC monster trucks, so I'm not as anal. However, the RC equipment makers cater to the racers, so the charger/balancers are typically far more sophisticated than what the automotive industry offers.

Thanks for detailed explanation. To be honest, I have a very little understanding about any of that stuff. I know it has built In safety future that will shut it off, if it gets to critical levels, and let you jump start it with remote. Just hoping it lasts, since, even the cheapest model that I picked, wasn't really cheap.

 

[Volfy]

Yes, that is one of the peculiarities of lithium batts in general. They don't like being at either extremes of charge state. Like most batt types, over-discharging is really detrimental to lithium too. It can severely decrease service life. They also don't like to be fully charged either. Although not as bad as being over-discharged, lithium chemistries are typically less stable at fully-charged state. It promotes the grown of lithium tendrils and can reduce service life.

So, do not be tempted to put a LiFeSO4 batt on battery tender, if you don't plan on driving it for a while. That might be okay with lead acid, not so with lithiums. Instead, most LiFeSO4 mfrs recommend discharging to some 50-60% charge state for long term storage. That and periodically balancing the cells to make sure 1 or more of the cells don't end up being over-charged or over-discharged in regular cycling.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

Well, at least in my case, I don't have to worry about discharging, since it's my dd. Don't even have battery tender.

 

[Landshark]

i will put my batteries on a trickle charger every few months to "top them up" as short trips and all the computers and electronics in newer cars may not let them get fully charged. my car batteries have lasted 6-8 years (some longer as i have sold cars with them still going strong).

also, i disabled the stop/start feature on the Stinger because, 1.) its annoying 2.) to prolong the battery and starter life

 

[Ah GetFd]

Yes, that is one of the peculiarities of lithium batts in general. They don't like being at either extremes of charge state. Like most batt types, over-discharging is really detrimental to lithium too. It can severely decrease service life. They also don't like to be fully charged either. Although not as bad as being over-discharged, lithium chemistries are typically less stable at fully-charged state. It promotes the grown of lithium tendrils and can reduce service life.

So, do not be tempted to put a LiFeSO4 batt on battery tender, if you don't plan on driving it for a while. That might be okay with lead acid, not so with lithiums. Instead, most LiFeSO4 mfrs recommend discharging to some 50-60% charge state for long term storage. That and periodically balancing the cells to make sure 1 or more of the cells don't end up being over-charged or over-discharged in regular cycling.

You are referring to Lithium "Dendrites"

This term is not new in the battery industry and it plagued Nickel Cadmium technologies in the 80s

Dendrites commonly cause "memory effect" in Nickel Cadmium Batteries.

It opens up a whole new world of pain for EVs that was largely eradicated when battery technologies moved from Nickel Cadmium to Nickel Metal Hydride.

The growth of these crystals in nickel cadmium batteries due to shallow charging and discharging created what was commonly caused memory effect. These crystals (dendrites) inhibited the full utilisation of the amhour capacity of the battery.

This is why consumers were advised to discharge their portable appliance batteries completely before recharge to avoid these dendrites forming. It did not apply to other battery technologies. Not lead. Not Nmh. But people did it anyway. Meh.

Now if Lithium is exhibiting these issues then that is just one reason why all the guinea pigs out there spending billions on EVs might come to grief in a few years as these Lithium batteries exhibit dendrite symptoms.

My new twin turbo charged V6 petrol users will be worth something as I thought they always would.

 

[Transmetal]

Most of this conversation is way over my head. How long does the battery in Stinger last generally? I know conditions affect it but I had heard from a coworker that's owned a few Kia's: Soul, Sorento, etc, that the stock battery doesn't last very long.

Seems odd to me cuz our 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee still has the factory battery with no issues whatsoever and that's while living in MN where it's currently -1.

 

[Ah GetFd]

You are referring to Lithium "Dendrites"

This term is not new in the battery industry and it plagued Nickel Cadmium technologies in the 80s

Dendrites commonly cause "memory effect" in Nickel Cadmium Batteries.

It opens up a whole new world of pain for EVs that was largely eradicated when battery technologies moved from Nickel Cadmium to Nickel Metal Hydride.

The growth of these crystals in nickel cadmium batteries due to shallow charging and discharging created what was commonly caused memory effect. These crystals (dendrites) inhibited the full utilisation of the amhour capacity of the battery.

This is why consumers were advised to discharge their portable appliance batteries completely before recharge to avoid these dendrites forming. It did not apply to other battery technologies. Not lead. Not Nmh. But people did it anyway. Meh.

Now if Lithium is exhibiting these issues then that is just one reason why all the guinea pigs out there spending billions on EVs might come to grief in a few years as these Lithium batteries exhibit dendrite symptoms.

My new twin turbo charged V6 petrol users will be worth something as I thought they always would.

Most of this conversation is way over my head. How long does the battery in Stinger last generally? I know conditions affect it but I had heard from a coworker that's owned a few Kia's: Soul, Sorento, etc, that the stock battery doesn't last very long.

Seems odd to me cuz our 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee still has the factory battery with no issues whatsoever and that's while living in MN where it's currently -1.

It just depends.....

Every battery is built differently. They are a bunch of chemicals thrown into a package. That's why one AA battery fails in your appliance and the other three are fine.....

A car battery generally has thin plates. That's to get the a large current off the surface of the plates quickly to turn the starter. But it is also susceptible to corrosion and breaking off known as sudden death. That's when you start the car and drive away but at that instant the plate breaks so the next time you come to start the car it does not. So they only last three or four years.

The corrosion occurs on recharging the battery. So the less you discharge it the less you have to recharge it. But it's unlikely you will keep it on a trickle charge. Fire trucks tend to be on trickle charge as an example so they always start with a fully charged battery...

IF the SLA Batteries that people call AGM have thicker lead plates as the Industrial models do then they should last longer. It depends what the manufacturers provide to the car market.

Also. batteries simply last longer in cold weather because their lifetime is also rated on temperature. Typically 20C.

Over 20C last less. Lower than 20C last longer than they are rated for. An SLA Battery is typically 10 years at 20C in a continuously float charged environment like a computer data centre or a radio base station.

Used in a car its going to be a lot less. How much less will be determined by the number of failures they record over time.

 

[Volfy]

Most of this conversation is way over my head. How long does the battery in Stinger last generally? I know conditions affect it but I had heard from a coworker that's owned a few Kia's: Soul, Sorento, etc, that the stock battery doesn't last very long.

Seems odd to me cuz our 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee still has the factory battery with no issues whatsoever and that's while living in MN where it's currently -1.

Heat is the #1 destroyer of batteries. Most FWD vehicles put the battery up front in the engine bay, because the hefty weight helps with traction. Being a RWD, the Stinger has the battery in the trunk floor, This helps to even out the weight distribution, but it also allows the batt to stay far away from engine heat, so it stays nice and cool. Any type of battery will tend to last longer because of this. As I mentioned above, the AGM I installed in my old '09 Genesis sedan, also in the trunk floor, was still good after some 9yrs. I got rid of the car then, so no telling whether it would've lasted longer than that.

I just replaced the battery in Mrs. Volfy's Fiat 500X. OEM battery lasted the typical 4-5yrs max for one living in the engine bay. The car is a keeper, so we'll have time to test how long that new AGM will last.

In any case, how long a battery lasts also depends on how it is used and abused. Stinger has "smart charging", where it varies alternator output voltage depending on load and engine operating conditions. Theoretically, this should prevent overcharging typical of a constant regulated voltage "dumb" alternator, and allow the batt to last longer. The other potential battery life reducer is letting the voltage drain down too low. This can be very detrimental to batt life. Deep cycle batteries are more tolerant of this, but even they don't like being drain to to be completely flat. Starter batteries, which most cars have, are less tolerant. I've seen ones weakened drastically after being subjected to just once.

Modern cars, with all the computer controls and electric everything, are pretty power hungry. Even more so if you add aux lighting and/or audio amps. If you run short drives for extended periods, you risk the battery not getting a full charge. This encourages sulfation in lead acid batts. In such cases, it doesn't hurt to put the battery on an external charger periodically to keep it in good health.

As with anything, constant monitoring is the best thing you can do. I run a fast charger for my smartphone and it has a voltage display on it. It is actually somewhat entertaining just to watch what the smart charging system does with varying charge voltage. First thing I do in the morning is the get the car in accessory mode, wtihout starting and turning on all the heavy electrical loads. This allows me to check the battery "open voltage at rest". Yeah, it isn't completely "open" since there are still some loads in the accessory position, but it is close enough to benchmark. And it's very conveniently repeatable every morning. I also load test all my batts with a load tester periodically.

 

[Snicklefritz]

This is very entertaining and informative, between @Volfy 's and @Ah GetF 's posts. You two guys are really exceptionally focused battery geeks. I am at best toward the lower end of the middle, as far as battery consciousness goes. That means that most of the time, I've not given batteries a conscious thought. Only when I first notice a change - the car turns over slower - do I wake up and consider. I'll replace a battery when I know it's dying, rather than have it die on me. As far as Stinger batteries go, at this point almost six years in, each time my car starts up - still like new - I give her a thumbs up and thank you God for another trouble-free day. That day is coming, of course, just like all the other things that have a lifespan.

 

[Ah GetFd]

This is very entertaining and informative, between @Volfy 's and @Ah GetF 's posts. You two guys are really exceptionally focused battery geeks. I am at best toward the lower end of the middle, as far as battery consciousness goes. That means that most of the time, I've not given batteries a conscious thought. Only when I first notice a change - the car turns over slower - do I wake up and consider. I'll replace a battery when I know it's dying, rather than have it die on me. As far as Stinger batteries go, at this point almost six years in, each time my car starts up - still like new - I give her a thumbs up and thank you God for another trouble-free day. That day is coming, of course, just like all the other things that have a lifespan.

I am not really. I worked in the industry and had to know stuff. I am really an electrical/electronics guy. But I had to read then tender all this stuff in period contracts selling millions at a time.

 

[SRV]

I have not replaced my battery yet, I bought the car Nov 2021, so it's only about 2.5 years old.

When I park the car, and I know I won't be driving it for a week, I automatically put a smart-charger on it regardless of the season. Next time I drive it, the battery is 100% charged, and starts no problem, especially important during the cold Wisconsin winters.

Another plus is that the alternator does not have to do extra work to recharge the battery from sitting too long undriven.

 

[stoopid]

also, i disabled the stop/start feature on the Stinger because, 1.) its annoying 2.) to prolong the battery and starter life

This. I hit the disable button as part of the "startup" process getting into my car every time I use it. If I did a lot of city I might leave it on (for the nominal fuel savings), but most of my driving is highway. Definitely not worth the wear on components for 2-8 traffic lights on a typical drive that might save me .025 gallons fuel over the duration of the trip.

OE battery still seems to be going strong in my 3yr 3mn old car, and I think it was on the lot for several months prior to my purchase. I'm expecting about 6 years out of the battery before replacement, in part because I don't use stop/start. Most batteries last 3 years here in Vegas due to the excessive heat mid May through late September. AGMs (calm down Ah GetFd!), per local lore, typically last longer here. I'm certain there's technical explanations for how they handle the heat better. We just know they do through trial and error. haha

 

[Thomby]

This. I hit the disable button as part of the "startup" process getting into my car every time I use it.

The 10 cent resistor trick is calling your name...

Disable ISG (Idle Stop and Go) (Idle Stop and Go) and enable Sport mode on each start up for under $20

I know there's a ton of other discussions out there, but these tips do it for under $20! They do it the safest and most efficient way also. ISG Sport mode on start up

stingerforum.org

 

[byebyeSTI]

i disabled the start / stop function with a timed relay ,, so it automaticity shuts off when i start the car ,

 

[stoopid]

The 10 cent resistor trick is calling your name...

Disable ISG (Idle Stop and Go) (Idle Stop and Go) and enable Sport mode on each start up for under $20

I know there's a ton of other discussions out there, but these tips do it for under $20! They do it the safest and most efficient way also. ISG Sport mode on start up

stingerforum.org

Is it though? I mean, I push two buttons when I get into my car rather than just one. Good god, imagine having to push TWO BUTTONS!

[and I do intend on reselling, so whatever I do needs to be reverted I would imagine]

 

[JSolo]

I have my routine down pat when leaving from the garage. Leaving from elsewhere it becomes more hazy. Need to drive the car more. Once a week isn't helping muscle memory.