3.3TT Oil changes and track days

[ElChanclo]

How often do you guys change your oil if you do the odd track day in the summer?

I'm following the "Normal" 10Kkm (6.2k miles) interval as outlined in the manual, despite every dealership pushing for the "Severe usage" interval of 6Kkm (3.2k miles).
I rack up about 1000km (620miles) every month in the Vancouver BC area, garage parked and maybe a day or two of snow driving per year.

What's the best practice here? I'm considering just extracting 2.5L of oil and topping up with new after every track day, and sticking to the 10K schedule regardless.
I just hate rolling the dice at the dealership every time, they always lose a clip or leave a cap off... "Your cabin filter is looking a little dirty" I JUST REPLACED IT MYSELF LAST WEEK!?!

 

[D.J.]

How often do you guys change your oil if you do the odd track day in the summer?

I'm following the "Normal" 10Kkm (6.2k miles) interval as outlined in the manual, despite every dealership pushing for the "Severe usage" interval of 6Kkm (3.2k miles).
I rack up about 1000km (620miles) every month in the Vancouver BC area, garage parked and maybe a day or two of snow driving per year.

What's the best practice here? I'm considering just extracting 2.5L of oil and topping up with new after every track day, and sticking to the 10K schedule regardless.
I just hate rolling the dice at the dealership every time, they always lose a clip or leave a cap off... "Your cabin filter is looking a little dirty" I JUST REPLACED IT MYSELF LAST WEEK!?!

That's an odd choice (replace 2.5l of oil)

Why not just do an early oil change? Extract it all, and replace it all. (leaving the filter to be changed at your scheduled 10k interval)

 

[Thomby]

Swapping the oil yourself at 3k intervals, in between the 6k full dealer changes with filter, is a great idea. And you could send a few samples off to Blackstone to see how it impacts different measures -- tell them what you're doing and they'll give you relevant commentary on what they're seeing.

 

[Volfy]

A lot depends on what kind of "track day" it is, and under what conditions you run it at, as well as how your car has been prepped.

If it is a full on back-to-back 20-25min sessions going balls-to-the-wall all day, morning and afternoon, that is a lot of stress on the car's drivetrain and chassis. Especially if it's in the middle of Summer down south, fluids are going to get pretty darn hot. For example, if you do not have a transmission oil cooler, your ATF could get toasty enough to start breaking down. Excessively hot fluids would also age all the seals and o-rings faster as well. Worse case scenario, you might even consider changing the fluids right after a long TD.

OTOH, if it's a track sprint type event, where each run is a single timed lap around the track, with plenty of rest time in between, then I wouldn't sweat it. Keep your engine running a while after each lap and fluid temps shouldn't get out of whack.

I will tell you this... if you plan on tracking your car regularly, you should not even even bother going by the "severe usage" schedule. What you put your nice comfy GT car through at the track is far beyond what that schedule is meant to accommodate.

 

[rtv900]

just fyi, some guys I know with a Z06 like mine have done 3 or 4 track days in summer where oil hits 300F and sent to blackstone with results showing it was ok.
The manual recommends changing after every track day, but that's ultra conservative.
this is also a forced induction motor
Mines a manual, but if I had an auto (or tracked my stinger which of course is auto) I'd be WAY more worried about the ATF than the motor oil.
Good synthetic motor oil can handle 300 and not self destruct
ATF at 300 means you are going to have serious issues

 

[Volfy]

For engine oil, what I'm more concerned about is high temp viscosity thinning. The typical 5w-30 oil, as the name indicates, thins down at 100degC roughly equivalent to what a straight 30w oil would. If engine oil temp continue to rise, your oil's kinematic viscosity will continue to drop. The higher temp, the thinner it becomes.

What happens then is your oil pressure will drop and the thin film strength, on which internal lubrication desperately depends on will weaken - at the time you are pushing balls to the wall and need protection the most. THAT is even if the oil is perfectly good and performing as it should. Even Blackstone only test viscosity at 100c (212F). So what happens at 250F? At 300F?

For this reason, I would run no less than 5w-40 on the track, and that's for the cooler months. For brutally hot Summer events, 10w-50 or 20w-50. BMW used to spec 10w-60 for their M turbos for this very reason.

But... do I really want to run that thick an oil for everyday driving? Since I live in Texas, where it's hotter than Hades in August, I could probably get away with it. For you guys up north, not a good idea.

Let's be realistic, as much as Kia might play up Stinger's sporting credentials, they designed it primarily as a comfy gran turismo car, not a track ready weapon. Putting it thru that kinda paces is hard on the car. You have to be prepared to do what is necessary to make sure it survives unscathed.

 

[rtv900]

right, nobody should run a 30 on a track.
but there are 0w-40's. My Z06 specs that as street/track safe in either case, and the 40 is totally fine at 300F all day long
it's also fine in freezing temps. I have it in my Z right now and I run winter tires over winter here in Pa and drive that thing in single digit weather.
Oil still runs around 200 when hot but the cold starts are no problem at all

 

[ElChanclo]

That's an odd choice (replace 2.5l of oil)
Why not just do an early oil change? Extract it all, and replace it all. (leaving the filter to be changed at your scheduled 10k interval)

5L after every track day seems a bit overkill, but that's why I thought I'd ask the whiz kids here Assuming 4 track days/yr that's essentially 5 full oil changes where I normally do 1.

Swapping the oil yourself at 3k intervals, in between the 6k full dealer changes with filter, is a great idea. And you could send a few samples off to Blackstone to see how it impacts different measures -- tell them what you're doing and they'll give you relevant commentary on what they're seeing.

Excellent idea, are there any Canadian oil analysis companies someone here would recommend? Mailing used oil across the border looks like a no go.
A before/after track day sample comparison should reveal exactly what effect each event has, almost like putting an equivalent "accelerated" number of miles on the engine oil.

A lot depends on what kind of "track day" it is, and under what conditions you run it at, as well as how your car has been prepped.

I will tell you this... if you plan on tracking your car regularly, you should not even even bother going by the "severe usage" schedule. What you put your nice comfy GT car through at the track is far beyond what that schedule is meant to accommodate.

15 minute sessions with warm up and cool down laps so 10 minutes to the wall, 30 min breaks, 8 sessions/day.
After seeing what that did to my tires and brake pads I gotta wonder what else I need to upgrade to keep the car happy.

For this reason, I would run no less than 5w-40 on the track, and that's for the cooler months. For brutally hot Summer events, 10w-50 or 20w-50. BMW used to spec 10w-60 for their M turbos for this very reason.
But... do I really want to run that thick an oil for everyday driving? Since I live in Texas, where it's hotter than Hades in August, I could probably get away with it. For you guys up north, not a good idea.

Would replacing the service shop oil (I can only assume they use 5w30 synth) with 5w40 at the beginning of summer/track season be a better option? Then do a service shop oil job before the weather cools?

I'd be WAY more worried about the ATF than the motor oil.
Good synthetic motor oil can handle 300 and not self destruct
ATF at 300 means you are going to have serious issues

What's the best way to get an ATF temp reading? Would an OBD2 scanner show that? Not sure how to handle an ATF schedule when tracking a car.

 

[Thomby]

The JB4 will display both transmission temp and coolant temp (but not oil temp, oddly enough). It plugs into the ODBII port/CANbus so I assume any of those bluetooth logger apps would also be able to display it in real time.

 

[Volfy]

15 minute sessions with warm up and cool down laps so 10 minutes to the wall, 30 min breaks, 8 sessions/day.
After seeing what that did to my tires and brake pads I gotta wonder what else I need to upgrade to keep the car happy.

10mins of balls-to-the-wall is actually not too bad, especially if they give you a couple of cool down laps, with lots of air flow. One good thing with Stinger is that all 3 engines are equipped with engine oil coolers. 3.3T shows an OEM ATF cooler, though I'm not sure if every GT trim has it. If yours has one, you're much better off. Regardless, there are always aftermarket oil cooler that can be added on. IMO, if a guy is committed to regular track days, keeping the fluids cool is a far better mitigation than changing fluids frequently.

Would replacing the service shop oil (I can only assume they use 5w30 synth) with 5w40 at the beginning of summer/track season be a better option? Then do a service shop oil job before the weather cools?

Since you live up in Canada, I'd say that might work, depending on how many miles you put on your car each season.

What's the best way to get an ATF temp reading? Would an OBD2 scanner show that? Not sure how to handle an ATF schedule when tracking a car.

Most OBD2 scanners should show Transmission Oil Temp. I use Torque Pro, and I had to buy a Hyundai/Kia plug-in to show ATF temp, but it was only a few dollars, so no biggie. If you have a piggie-back controller like JB4, then you're GTG.

The most important thing is to monitor all your temps. Then base your mitigation strategy based on what you see. As I mentioned, if your 3.3T has an ATF cooler and you live up in North with cool Summers, you might be okay. Even then, if this were my car, I would go early on the ATF flush interval... and I definitely not cheap out on changing the filter that is built-in to the pan.


FWIW, track prep goes beyond just engine oil and ATF oil. There are a whole lot of other attention points:

1. Brake fluid. This is arguably the most important fluid not to cheap out on frequent changing. Old fluids have lower wet boiling temp that would cause vapor lock when your brake calipers experience high temp at the track. We live in hot and humid south, flushing our track-active cars before start of each season is an absolute must. Up north... well, your call. There are test strips you can get, if you want a justification for not flushing frequently.

2. Brake pads. There are plenty of other threads on this topic, so I won't elaborate here.

3. Differential. If your car does not have LSD, I highly recommend you retrofit one on. Stinger/G70's mechanical LSD does not have a diff oil cooler, so feel free to beat on this dead horse some more. Diff oil take less than a qt of gear oil, so there is little excuse not to err on the conservative side.

4. Alignment. If you want to track your car, do yourself a favor and find a shop that offer lifetime alignment policy. I got mine for less than $200, which is not a lot more than a single alignment check, and for sure way cheaper than track tires.

5. Tires. If you are gonna track regularly, dedicated track hoops will make a lot more sense than trying to run street tires on the track, or worse... risk track tires on the street.

 

[Volfy]

Savagegeese did a great intro into track prep and the reality of "high performance cars". Worth a watch, if you're wanting to track your car:

 

[SRV]

There is NO WAY I'd track a Stinger...

It is simply way too heavy, and that weight is going to literally beat the crap out of the entire car - tires, brakes, suspension, bushings, transmission, diffs, engine.

If you like to track, you should consider getting a dedicated track car like a spec Miata for example. And if you put it in the wall, it's not as big an issue since it's not your daily driver.

Here's my tracker for Road America which is also street legal, and weighs 2,800 lbs: