New Forbes Article - Stinger vs performance Icons

[MisterMac]

I thought it was pretty sad I pulled through a Hyundai dealership yesterday and 3 sales people didn’t even know what the Stinger was.

You should at least know what Kia’s are available if you work for the parent company.

Lol, just like the cells in your child's big toe should know everything your (parents) brain is thinking.

 

[TwinSnails]

Lol, just like the cells in your child's big toe should know everything your (parents) brain is thinking.

Not exactly, but in MY opinion... I know what GM cross references, which MITSUBISHI/Dodge/Chrysler/Eagle overlapped, Lexus/Camry, Infiniti/Nissan... and I dont sell cars. I will walk out if you don’t know something about the cars you sell.

If you sell cars... you should probably know at least where the next Genesis’ reference point is.

 

[Gferg01]

Kia as a brand has never sold anywhere near the top in any class. Optima selling 95k for the year is actually not good at all when Camry and Accord will both sell over 300k. The old Altima isn't far behind either. So comparing sales of Kia's will be a loss across the board. And the 4 series includes the 4 door, 2 door, convertible and M cars, so I would hope it would sell double the amount of the Stinger.

New car in a new category from a brand that didnt have the reputation to sell anything over 35-40k prior, let alone one that has performance cred. Expectations are a little unrealistic here.

If Kia Corp only has enough resources and allocation to sell about 15k Stingers in the US it's first year and they just passed that with a month to go, they are very clearly on target in the US. No cause for alarm, at least not yet.

 

[MisterMac]

Not exactly, but in MY opinion... I know what GM cross references, which MITSUBISHI/Dodge/Chrysler/Eagle overlapped, Lexus/Camry, Infiniti/Nissan... and I dont sell cars. I will walk out if you don’t know something about the cars you sell.

If you sell cars... you should probably know at least where the next Genesis’ reference point is.

You are making some mighty big assumptions fueled by wishful thinking more than by reality.

 

[Tonkabob]

Halo car is something that is thrown around pretty loosely and I don’t see Stinger in general as a good Halo car. Honestly Stinger reminds me of my past 2006 MazdaSpeed 6 GT. The MazdaSpeed 6 was odd car too and died at Mazda same way Stinger appears to be. But thinking back surprising how similar Stinger experience has been to MazdaSpeed 6. Also reminds me of Subaru SVX in 1990s. I’d argue BMW M cars, Audi S series, Mercedes AMG, Porsche GT cars, Dodge SRT, Ford Mustang GT 500, Chevy Z series, Cadillac V Spec are true halo cars. I’d prefer anyone of those halo cars over Stinger GT and I don’t believe I’m the only one who thinks this way. It’s just that my fully loaded Stinger GT2 at heavy discount was $20 K plus less than most of these Halo cars and it was unknown oddball that not many had seen. I bought car more as a novelty than on its true merits.

If Stinger was true Halo car it would draw people to showrooms, people would dream about it. While it’s a cool quirky car I don’t think most people even know this car exists. Which is kind of pathetic given Kia bought huge dollar ads on super bowl Sunday.

I’m not as emotionally attached to my purchase as many on this forum. I love the militancy from some who are clearly trying to convince themselves Stinger is second coming of car world. I see Stinger as well designed yet quirky car. It’s too sporty for most sedan buyers but not sporty enough for halo car buying crowd.

I’d argue Soul is more of a Halo car than Stinger. Bringing young buyers in and introducing them to Kia brand. Stinger is sort of quirky test by Kia. I love it but no denying it’s a bit of an odd duck with a fairly predictable ending.

Kia Stinger was the most prominently featured car in the Seattle auto show TV commercial last month. Somebody thought it would draw crowds unless Kia payed for its placement.

 

[Tonkabob]

I suspect Stinger will fall is ranks of cars like these we have seen from Asia over decades. GT cars from Asia have had spotted past in traditional US markets regardless of brand. For their time they were very cool cars as well. I’d say even more revolutionary than Stinger.


70s era Mazda GT sedan

80s era failed Mitsubishi GT sedan

90s era failed Subaru GT

Mazda tries again in 2005 with AWD Turbo GT sedan. ...fails again. So sad as it was a cool car. The big 2.3 turbo 4 motor was a torque monster like Stinger. And it had manual 6 speed!

....And now Korea’s turn

Hyundai Genesis RIP

And Stinger 2020 RIP. ...and no I don’t think rear doors will save Stinger.

Those are all sweet cars except the Mazda. The Mitsubishi Starion ran 7 years. Not too bad. Always wanted one.

 

[CaliSting]

Population of California 40mil, population of Australia 25mil.
All the vehicles you mention are less expensive in the US for the reason of population & consumerism, US gets the cheaper pricing = higher volume sales = rest of world subsidises your low pricing & if you believe that doesn’t happen you are delusional.
Your obviously a Porsche guy, did Porsche sell 15,000 911’s in the US this year? If not does that also make it an abject failure?
Us Aussies don’t need to be told about our Govt. taxes we are screwed in all facets of life, let alone taxes on cars, funny though the prices supposedly have drop since manufacturing here ceased.
Luxury car tax rate and thresholds

I do business all over world mostly in Asia and understand trade barriers countries erect. Can tell you that your government drives up price of Porsche and other car brands not US population or consumerism. Had to laugh as Toyota sales drive biggest portion of Australias nutty luxury car tax.

Don’t forget beyond luxury taxes Australia also imposes tariffs on Porsche and all other companies to import their cars, then GST, then huge registration fees. Then stamp tax at title transfer. Then there is Australian income taxes Porsche Australia and other car companies must pay of 30%. I’m sure there are other fees And cost of doing business in Australia that add to overal cost for car companies as well that are minimized in US with our relatively lower taxation structures.

Then there is fact that California and US is one of biggest car markets in world with relatively low taxes imposed on cars and lower taxes on corporations . Most of large coastal regions of US are pretty affluent and USD is strong which makes Euro cars relative bargain in USA compared to most other countries in Asia.

No sir Australian taxes are biggest issue resulting in higher car prices. Then Aus dollar exchange rates with big car producing countries, then relative size of your market and fact your geographically isolated.

On 911 sales. Remember that 911s selling price is 2 to 8 times as much as Stinger and are a true halo car. Most of the high end 911s like GT3 sell for well above MSRP so Porsche makes huge profits on their sales. Porsche actually limits production on many 911 variants which drives up selling prices. You literally have to pay to get in line for chance to buy a 911. Kia on other hand has a car which is expensive to manufacture and is discounting off MSRP. Those aren’t good economics for Kia. No lines at Kia dealers for GT2.

I was curious how many millionaires US has verses Australia . We have over 13 million millionaires in Us. That’s roughly over half population of Australia. That’s a lot of people who can afford a luxury car and reason US is a coveted market for luxury car sales.

The 18 countries with the most millionaires

 

[CaliSting]

Those are all sweet cars except the Mazda. The Mitsubishi Starion ran 7 years. Not too bad. Always wanted one.

Starion May have been produced for 7 years in Japan but had dismal sales in US compared to more popular Z and RX7. It’s sales we’re also propped up by Chrysler investment and branding effort with Conquest. In its day it was the Kia Stinger of the 80s. Not well understood or accepted in US market but appreciated by those who understood it was special car. It was way ahead of its time as well.

Forgot about Galant VR 4 which was the try at another GT Sedan offering in US by Mitsubishi. It failed as well.

 

[eljay]

Unfortunately a lot of the Stinger market is about image. Do you honestly think most BMW/MB/Audi owners buy the car for the way it drives? No, it is image. Once a Stinger shows up at the country club/law firm/accounting firm/doctor's parking lot, people talk, look, ask questions, get interested.

My neighbor, an attorney in Beverly Hills, works at a firm that comps their lawyers' leases if they lease from specific BMW, Mercedes, or Land Rover dealers. She recently told a colleague whose lease was ending about her neighbor's cool new Stinger (mine), and showed it to him on the internet. He decided to get what he wanted instead of what the firm would pay for, and he leased a Stinger on his own dime. Another colleague saw his, and now he too has a Stinger. It's happening.

 

[CaliSting]

My neighbor, an attorney in Beverly Hills, works at a firm that comps their lawyers' leases if they lease from specific BMW, Mercedes, or Land Rover dealers. She recently told a colleague whose lease was ending about her neighbor's cool new Stinger (mine), and showed it to him on the internet. He decided to get what he wanted instead of what the firm would pay for, and he leased a Stinger on his own dime. Another colleague saw his, and now he too has a Stinger. It's happening.

Based on slowing sales it’s happening less and less. Almost half as much as a few months ago. Hey I was a long time Porsche and Audi guy and I popped for one. But I’m a unique buyer and I have always liked strange cars. Loved Porsche 914/6 GT when others hated it - have owned 3. Loved V8 AMC Gremlin back in 70s. I drove the piss out of a highly modified Toyota Echo 2 door coupe that was one of my favorite cars ever just because it was so ridiculous.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Almost half as much as a few months ago.

May 1,761; November 1,173.

 

[westcoastGT]

........................given the fact that Kia continued producing a new edition of the K900 after a dismal Gen 1 sales history , and based on the unprecendented accolades , awards and general hype that the Stinger has generated there is a virtual certainty that they will produce a second generation . There's far more than just unit sales that are components of "success" ..........................

 

[Stinger GT SS]

There are many factors, such as exchange rate and transport, which drive the price
Differential between countries, but subsidizing another market is not one of them. Lol

Just like the Aussie built Pontiac GTO, Pontiac G8 & Chevy SS made in Australia, shipped to the US & taking into account
Exchange Rate, was still cheaper for Americans to buy.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

I do business all over world mostly in Asia and understand trade barriers countries erect. Can tell you that your government drives up price of Porsche and other car brands not US population or consumerism. Had to laugh as Toyota sales drive biggest portion of Australias nutty luxury car tax.

Don’t forget beyond luxury taxes Australia also imposes tariffs on Porsche and all other companies to import their cars, then GST, then huge registration fees. Then stamp tax at title transfer. Then there is Australian income taxes Porsche Australia and other car companies must pay of 30%. I’m sure there are other fees And cost of doing business in Australia that add to overal cost for car companies as well that are minimized in US with our relatively lower taxation structures.

Then there is fact that California and US is one of biggest car markets in world with relatively low taxes imposed on cars and lower taxes on corporations . Most of large coastal regions of US are pretty affluent and USD is strong which makes Euro cars relative bargain in USA compared to most other countries in Asia.

No sir Australian taxes are biggest issue resulting in higher car prices. Then Aus dollar exchange rates with big car producing countries, then relative size of your market and fact your geographically isolated.

On 911 sales. Remember that 911s selling price is 2 to 8 times as much as Stinger and are a true halo car. Most of the high end 911s like GT3 sell for well above MSRP so Porsche makes huge profits on their sales. Porsche actually limits production on many 911 variants which drives up selling prices. You literally have to pay to get in line for chance to buy a 911. Kia on other hand has a car which is expensive to manufacture and is discounting off MSRP. Those aren’t good economics for Kia. No lines at Kia dealers for GT2.

I was curious how many millionaires US has verses Australia . We have over 13 million millionaires in Us. That’s roughly over half population of Australia. That’s a lot of people who can afford a luxury car and reason US is a coveted market for luxury car sales.

The 18 countries with the most millionaires

This is starting to sound like a “mines bigger than yours” WTF does being a millionaire got to do with this discussion, FWIW most home owners in Sydney alone are millionaires just for the fact of property values...big deal. As an Australian tax payer for the last 40+ years I do not need a lecture on our Tax System, I’m well aware how it works. I also have friends that live in LA that own “high end” cars & are also millionaires but would not pay the prices for these same cars in AU.

 

[CaliSting]

This is starting to sound like a “mines bigger than yours” WTF does being a millionaire got to do with this discussion, FWIW most home owners in Sydney alone are millionaires just for the fact of property values...big deal. As an Australian tax payer for the last 40+ years I do not need a lecture on our Tax System, I’m well aware how it works. I also have friends that live in LA that own “high end” cars & are also millionaires but would not pay the prices for these same cars in AU.

Lol! ....No explaining why in the US a BMW, Porsche or Audi are potential alternatives to higher end Kia Stinger GT that was questioned as not being relevant to average Joe. I’d argue average joe doesn’t buy a Stinger in the US. I’d love to see income of typical Stinger buyer. How many of us are just cheap? We could have bought bmw etc but because we could save money we bought Stinger. Last I checked Kia was comparing the Stinger to Porsche Panamera and BMW 6 series as a $50k alternative GT car in US.

I don’t blame anyone for getting defensive about high taxes. ....And at least Australians aren’t like French burning cars in streets over high taxes.

And fact is US is still one of biggest luxury car markets with many luxury cars that are affordable to large numbers of wealthy people isn’t size war. It’s just a fact. I have some very wealth relatives who where looking at luxury SUVs and looked at Lexus, Mercedes etc and ended up with a freaking Kia SUV. So I don’t buy when people say certain people don’t fit profile of Kia ownership.

....And as a note a million dollar house doesn’t make you a millionaire. Net worth is used for calculation. Most people who live in million dollar houses are not millionaires in California. They are owners of a lot of debt.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Lol! ....No explaining why in the US a BMW, Porsche or Audi are potential alternatives to higher end Kia Stinger GT that was questioned as not being relevant to average Joe. I’d argue average joe doesn’t buy a Stinger in the US. I’d love to see income of typical Stinger buyer. How many of us are just cheap? We could have bought bmw etc but because we could save money we bought Stinger. Last I checked Kia was comparing the Stinger to Porsche Panamera and BMW 6 series as a $50k alternative GT car in US.

I don’t blame anyone for getting defensive about high taxes. ....And at least Australians aren’t like French burning cars in streets over high taxes.

And fact is US is still one of biggest luxury car markets with many luxury cars that are affordable to large numbers of wealthy people isn’t size war. It’s just a fact. I have some very wealth relatives who where looking at luxury SUVs and looked at Lexus, Mercedes etc and ended up with a freaking Kia SUV. So I don’t buy when people say certain people don’t fit profile of Kia ownership.

....And as a note a million dollar house doesn’t make you a millionaire. Net worth is used for calculation. Most people who live in million dollar houses are not millionaires in California. They are owners of a lot of debt.

What is a "profile"? The US is composed of diverse demographics. Divisive forces love to try and split US up, but the uniting factor, the "glue", is material opportunity and increasing prosperity: Capitalism, CAPITALISM. The crap socialist movements that say it is evil have NOT ONE success story that remotely compares to the amount of time that the "American Experiment(TM)" has been going. Every single piece of hitch in our economic gitalong is the fault of socialist elements that capitalism is saddled with. Is there a perfect system? Hell no. People make the evils appear or go away. We don't need more taxes to "fix" anything. Gov't never does anything as well, let alone better, than private enterprise.

What does that have to do with Kia and the Stinger? My father-in-law was a "child of the depression" and lived a frugal life, bequesting some money (not a lot) on his children; which benefits me directly. If it were up to me and my 401K and my SS, I'd never have this car. My wife, bless her loving heart, GAVE me this car. So put that in your "profile" and burn it.

Some people appreciate things that come their way. Others complain, find fault, carp and moan. The Stinger as a fabulously fine automobile. Take that from someone who has (until now) driven nothing but used cars; most of them well over ten years old even at the time of purchase. I fit no profile but the barely successful retiree, who OWNS his two houses (one a gift of the same father-in-law): like the holder of Two Talents, I have Four now; and I intend to keep them and grow them. It takes money to make money.

It also takes money to buy a Stinger; or debt. Either way, the car is within reach of a whole lot more appreciative drivers now than any NEW European badged brand. And that is the secret ingredient that will keep the Stinger around for more than 2020, Mr Cali.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

Lol! ....No explaining why in the US a BMW, Porsche or Audi are potential alternatives to higher end Kia Stinger GT that was questioned as not being relevant to average Joe. I’d argue average joe doesn’t buy a Stinger in the US. I’d love to see income of typical Stinger buyer. How many of us are just cheap? We could have bought bmw etc but because we could save money we bought Stinger. Last I checked Kia was comparing the Stinger to Porsche Panamera and BMW 6 series as a $50k alternative GT car in US.

I don’t blame anyone for getting defensive about high taxes. ....And at least Australians aren’t like French burning cars in streets over high taxes.

And fact is US is still one of biggest luxury car markets with many luxury cars that are affordable to large numbers of wealthy people. I have some very wealth relatives who where looking at luxury SUVs and looked at Lexus, Mercedes etc and ended up with a freaking Kia SUV. So I don’t buy when people say certain people don’t fit profile of Kia ownership.

....And as a note a million dollar house doesn’t make you a millionaire. Net worth is used for calculation. Most people who live in million dollar houses are not millionaires in California. They are owners of a lot of debt.

The Stinger here was pitched at former Falcon & Commodore owners, 18% of Stinger purchases came from Commodore trade ins, then another large proportion of trades are current Kia owners for the Stinger.
Most here wouldn’t know let alone see a Porsche Panamera, not a popular car here in the scheme of things, I see more Lambos, Ferrari’s & Maserati & now Tesla’s also lots of Merc, BMW, Audi, Lexus here.

Missed my point, I stated “home owners” a lot of us baby boomers live & work in Sydney & “own” their home & have no debt. Australians are also some of the most affluent individuals on the world scale, in your travels have you actually be to OZ or does google provide you with all your information.

Having 13 million Millionaires with a population of 350million is not comparable to AU with a 25 million population, but when you look at it on a per capita basis we punch above our weight in all aspects as a society & not just based on how many millionaires we have.

 

[Jimmer]

What is a "profile"? The US is composed of diverse demographics. Divisive forces love to try and split US up, but the uniting factor, the "glue", is material opportunity and increasing prosperity: Capitalism, CAPITALISM. The crap socialist movements that say it is evil have NOT ONE success story that remotely compares to the amount of time that the "American Experiment(TM)" has been going. Every single piece of hitch in our economic gitalong is the fault of socialist elements that capitalism is saddled with. Is there a perfect system? Hell no. People make the evils appear or go away. We don't need more taxes to "fix" anything. Gov't never does anything as well, let alone better, than private enterprise.

What does that have to do with Kia and the Stinger? My father-in-law was a "child of the depression" and lived a frugal life, bequesting some money (not a lot) on his children; which benefits me directly. If it were up to me and my 401K and my SS, I'd never have this car. My wife, bless her loving heart, GAVE me this car. So put that in your "profile" and burn it.

Some people appreciate things that come their way. Others complain, find fault, carp and moan. The Stinger as a fabulously fine automobile. Take that from someone who has (until now) driven nothing but used cars; most of them well over ten years old even at the time of purchase. I fit no profile but the barely successful retiree, who OWNS his two houses (one a gift of the same father-in-law): like the holder of Two Talents, I have Four now; and I intend to keep them and grow them. It takes money to make money.

It also takes money to buy a Stinger; or debt. Either way, the car is within reach of a whole lot more appreciative drivers now than any NEW European badged brand. And that is the secret ingredient that will keep the Stinger around for more than 2020, Mr Cali.

So back in February, I went looking for an SUV to replace the truck I bought in N. Dakota. After moving to Utah, I didn't need the truck to go over high drifts of snow any more and it was always needing repairs. So after test driving a few SUVs from other makers, I tried the Sorento, it was great, and the dealership was willing to give me way too much for my truck. As I was making the purchase, I saw the Stinger for the first time. It was love at first sight. I had never seen nor even heard of the car before. For months I couldn't get it out of my head. I researched it and watched tons of reviews. Almost bought one in May, but found out I had cancer and had to go through surgery and radiation. Once I was out of the woods, I went and got my HiChroma Red GT2 AWD and my wife took the Sorento to replace her mini-van with 200K on the odometer (which she STILL didn't want to give up).

I'm almost 50, and I've only had two other vehicles I really loved (and none as much as this one). Most have been practical family cars. Thing about THIS car though, it checks off every box. It looks great, it's fast, it's very comfy for long trips, it's AWD (though you can throw it in Sport mode and pretty much have a RWD), it handles like a dream, it's loaded with all the tech and safety things one would ever want or need. As a family guy, it's also very roomy (my grown boys are comfy in the back) and it has really good cargo space (heck it fit a boxed up 65 in television in it). It really does have it all, including a great warranty. My only knock is the gas mileage, and I'll happily accept that flaw for this car. I can afford to buy a much pricier car (this fully loaded GT2 AWD was 44K out the door) but felt no need or desire to do so. This car gives me everything I want and need. Audis, BMW and Lexus are a dime a dozen around here. I'm always having people drive up next to me and stare at it with a big smile and giving thumbs up. People take extras laps around the parking lot to check it out. Had tons of people come up and ask me about it. I'd rather have a gorgeous vehicle that stacks up to much more expensive vehicles and isn't owned (actually probably mostly leased) by tons of people.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Hi @Jimmer what part of Utah are you from?

 

[Jimmer]

Hi @Jimmer what part of Utah are you from?

I live in Roy, which is just outside of Ogden and about 40 minutes from Salt Lake. Go Grizzlies!