3.3TT My CEL is "historical"?

Rev_Night

Active Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
280
Reaction score
91
Points
28
Yesterday, I was enjoying some casual driving in sport mode (40ish mph) when my CEL turns on. The radio goes mute and my infotainment says "Possible Engine Condition". I notice no loss in power, dashboard is fine other than CEL, and nothing seems off. I immediately drive it to dealer, where I alternate between comfort and sport to see how the car performs. Needless to say, I'm not speed racing it with CEL on, but the car seems normal. I take it to the dealer and they say they will get back to me.

After waiting most of the day due to the 20 people in front of me, I get a text that the CEL is "due to how the car is being driven". I call them back and ask wtf does that mean exactly. Six months ago I did a HPDE, but thats the only time I went crazy with the car. I have K&N drop filters in, but the engine is stock otherwise. No JB4, lozics, etc..

I speak with the manager, and he said the error codes are historical, and when he cleared them, nothing came back on. According to the report "Nothing is failing at this time. Cleared DTC If light comes back on advised client to return". He then gave me the exact CEL codes, attached.

Has anyone had this experience with the 2019 Kia Stinger GT AWD 3.3TT? Historical/Pending events that cause a CEL, but when cleared, don't come back?
 

Attachments

  • CEL.webp
    CEL.webp
    103.4 KB · Views: 86
I get a text that the CEL is "due to how the car is being driven". I call them back and ask wtf does that mean
What in the actual F#&CK is that about.

Screenshot and post the text message -

Cause that's WHACK
 
Kia service at its finest. Drive in sport mode for 40mph and accuse of you to running nitrous in mexico for 21 consecutive days.
 
______________________________
That is incredible...

Ran a certain way!


I hope the service advisor can elaborate on what he means
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
Yeah, and when I texted followup, and called, I got no response. Had to call the main line and ask to speak with the manager :-/
 
Yeah, and when I texted followup, and called, I got no response. Had to call the main line and ask to speak with the manager :-/
And? You still waiting for words?

A week from today, I am getting a diagnostic done to determine why my CEL comes on: accompanied with rough boost activity. The CEL was on for a full minute last week as I did a launch control WOT "event"; that was the longest that the CEL stayed on, so, whatever it is, it isn't something that is getting any better with time. Heh.
 
You ask, I deliver. See attached
Yeah man, you shouldn't have started the car and driven it after you bought it- everyone knows that's not good for the engine.

Seriously, that sounds like some real BS there lol I keep a car scanner to make sure I don't waste too much time at dealers like that. You did good to take it to them though, those are scary codes to see.
 
ok so UPDATE 4/22:

I am driving on the highway to home and I get the CEL again. The only track/hpde was still last year back in Sept. I take it to a trusted non-dealer mechanic, and he gives me the error codes (dont have on me at this moment sorry). He says they are boost related and are absolutely in warranty. I bring up the fact that the kia dealer (ourisman Chantilly, va) blew me off a few weeks ago. He advised:

1) Take off the car numbers off before I drive into the dealership. In retrospect, this is my fault and I didn't think of that.
2) Lie. Lie, and lie again. If they ever ask if I have been driving autox or track, lie and say no.
3) Make sure theres no racing slips or whatever in there. Clean the car out of all receipts etc..

So in light of the above, I am going to take the stinger to a dealer 30 min away. Super lame, since the other dealer is 5 min away, but they are probably going to remember me there since it was only a few weeks ago.
 
______________________________
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
^^^Truth/ honesty is always the best policy. And, when you always tell the truth you don't have to have a good memory. :D
 
(ourisman Chantilly, va)
There's part of your problem. I honestly hate Ourisman dealers. Unfortunately, I bought my stinger at the Ourisman in Alexandria (even though I live in Centreville), and I bought my previous car at the Ourisman Toyota. Honestly I really don't like most of the dealers in the area. Browns (at least the Subaru) in Manassas has always been incredibly friendly and the service manager was actually very nice and knowledgeable. No clue about the Browns Kia though, I'm only just starting out with my journey.
 
Funny enough I'm actually going to browns kia in Manassas.

I took several rounds of brake cleaner and window spray to the numbers today. I got 99.99% of it off, I can vaguely see one of the numbers at an oblique angle. I'll get it again tomorrow
 
Wait you had a racing number still on the window when you took it to a dealer? LOL talk about asking for warranty issues...
 
^^^Truth/ honesty is always the best policy. And, when you always tell the truth you don't have to have a good memory. :D
But Merlin the truth hurts and people just can’t handle the truth.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
^^^Truth/ honesty is always the best policy. And, when you always tell the truth you don't have to have a good memory. :D
Someone must watch Judge Judy a lot.
 
______________________________
^^^Not ever. I imagine we have the same script writer, though.
 
This is pretty interesting....
A historical code means it's something that happened in the past but isn't currently happening. The system will still throw a CEL if the "something" is important enough that it needs attention.
Note that modern cars have *several* computers, each of which have their own diagnostics. It's quite common to have a bunch of codes thrown by various systems and be completely OK. My favorite is when the manufacturer is too lazy to do proper coding based on options and just uses the same setup for all variants of a vehicle. The lower-optioned ones then tend to throw codes complaining that options or systems aren't present...... Doesn't throw a CEL, but shows up if you use the appropriate scanner. Worked on a friend's cheap-o Corolla a few months back and had to wade through several pages of bullshit to get to anything real.

Now, back to yours, what is happening here looks like a signal interference problem.

P0238 is saying the signal from the MAP sensor - I expect the one on the manifold after the throttle body - went high (5V in this case) which it should never do. Damn near every sensor has a range from 0V to 5V to report whatever it's sensing and the extremes generally don't happen. Once that happens the ECU doesn't know WTF is going on in the manifold and will panic. It would go into limp mode. Once the sensor starts registering correctly the ECU said "GREAT!" and got back to work. It was logged and flagged because that would prevent the ECU from running the engine correctly.

The next two are cam position sensors. The ECU is saying it wasn't able to correctly interpret the signals from the sensors. It's "Pending" because the ECU briefly had a problem, but quickly started working correctly again. This is its way of keeping track, so if it has another brief problem it'll throw in the towel. Pending codes will get erased if the ECU goes a ""sufficient"" amount of time/distance without hitting that same error again.


What's got my attention is the combination here. Cam sensors generate a waveform that the ECU has to capture and interpret. This is highly sensitive to interference. Too much noise in the wire and the ECU won't capture the signal. Frankly, the fact that it ever works is a f*cking miracle given the quality of the cabling, routing, the underhood environment, and the amount of processing allocated for DSP work. The MAP sensor doesn't need that much processing - just sampling at some frequency (probably slow, like 100hz or something). But one or more of those samples came back 5V.

Sure looks to me like a wiring or interference problem. Really, really closely check ALL of the harness under the hood - remove the trim panel around the brake master cylinder too - for any signs of rodent damage. Torn tape? Chewed wires? Something rubbing and exposing copper?
Make sure all the connectors are fully seated on the MAP and cam sensors. Hell, pull them off and make sure the contacts are OK.

If physically it's OK, then it gets way more interesting.

On other cars I've seen seriously weird shit happen when coils start to fail. It's real fun on DBW systems where the ECU decides that some EMF noise means it's lost control of the throttle blade. The spark energy starts to internally short or other internal damage causing the coil to spew a ton of EMF noise. The ECU will get all kinds of confused and basically pick whatever it thinks is most likely. Sometimes it's slightly more logical and, e.g., you can see that all these wires just so happen to be routed right on top of the #6 coil. Or there can be something more physical, like there's an arc down the side of the plug, or maybe the plug is cracked or tip broken or whatever. Again, causing a spew of EMF.
This type of junk is always intermittent and dealers really hate chasing down intermittent problems.
I haven't seen much at all about coil problems and coils aren't readily available, so that seems unlikely. And with an unmodded car the stock plugs should be just fine (Assuming it doesn't have 100k miles on it already).

You can throw parts at it - plugs first, then coils - but it's less than 50% chance that'll work out for you.

Regular access to a high quality scanner and finding a manner to reliably recreate the condition will help greatly. I would expect there's some specific scenario - certain amount of boost, certain speed, certain throttle - where something goes BZZT and you get your CEL. Could even require some certain bump or vibration to get the wires in the right place or to pull apart a poor connection.

Or a rodent chewed some wires.

For me, I was lucky. The rat only chewed through the JB4 o2 sensor wire before curling up and dying on top of the engine. Smelled horrible for days though. Car had been parked for less than a week!



Anyway, do a thorough examination of the wiring harness, then I'd strongly recommend pulling all the plugs for a physical inspection. If those turn up empty then you're in for an adventure.

Going to the dealer with the shoe polish on the window is downright hilarious. "Hey, dude raced his car and threw a random CEL that's cleared. What now?" "Tell him to go away"


For real fun, this could have been completely random and never happen again.

Core thing to take away is the ECU saw a handful of one time signal processing errors. If I was the dealer I'd just clear 'em and say nothing even happened. Maybe it's nothing.
 
So over the weekend I got the CEL again. I take it to non dealer mechanic, and the error code are the same (PO 238 and PO 340).

I take off the track numbers via brake cleaner and rainex. I make an appt with brown Manassas for next Thursday. I am still irritated I can't take it to local kia bc they might remember my car.

I am still driving the car, this time only in eco mode.

Am I in trouble with these error codes? Can I still commute to my work (15 min each way) daily?
 
So over the weekend I got the CEL again. I take it to non dealer mechanic, and the error code are the same (PO 238 and PO 340).

I take off the track numbers via brake cleaner and rainex. I make an appt with brown Manassas for next Thursday. I am still irritated I can't take it to local kia bc they might remember my car.

I am still driving the car, this time only in eco mode.

Am I in trouble with these error codes? Can I still commute to my work (15 min each way) daily?
If the CEL is flashing definitely STOP. If not, in most cases possibly all it’s ok but the car is in a like limp eco’ish mode. I had a cel related to a MAP sensor code a while back which didn’t cause a problem while driving. In my case the issue was figured out quickly so the miles were very few.
 
From interior to exterior to high performance - everything you need for your Stinger awaits you...
Back
Top