3.3TT Mishimoto's Stinger GT Intercooler Kit R&D Thread

[Ohiocruiser]

Can you use the stock IC pipes on the Mishi kit? I thought the entirety of the Mishi kit used larger pipes that didn't match the OEM pipes. Or are you saying you reverted back to stock pipes on an IC kit from another company?

Does anyone have any data that suggests that this Mishi kit is NOT detrimental outside of drag racing? Seems that even in drag racing, your low end is going to suffer due to considerably higher IATs, then you'll get better top end due to the faster cooling.

I'm gonna hold off on installing mine. If the verdict ends up being that this is only beneficial in a track or drag race setting, and detrimental for daily driving, I'll be posting a brand new one for sale here... or possibly trying to get a refund... unless there's something we can coat the pipes in to bring IATs down to at least stock levels.

Just to make it clear. When i am saying previous experience i mean experience with my previous car which was not stinger, but chevy hhr ss with 4 cylinder turbocharged engine. And the reason i swiched to aftermarket piping was because it came, like almost all turbocharged cars these days, with plastic piping. That is why i really dont see the reason to modify the stock pipes on stinger. It IS realy, really good from the factory. And unless you are pushing lot more air with bigger turbochargers, what is the point of bigger diameter pipes??

 

[xot1]

The lower your IAT, the more power you can make. I've seen a dramatic difference in performance when comparing a 30 degree (F) day pull to an 80 degree (F) day pull.

More specifically, I can run Map 2 on my JB4 all winter long and my ignition timing will look great. But when I did a pull on a 90 degree day with IATs up near 120+, the engine knocked and the timing followed the tell tale drops in my logs (I didn't hear the knock, I just noticed considerably less power and saw it in the logs).

I was hoping for IATs closer to ambient in the summer so I can avoid that issue.

So, when I say "detrimental" I'm referring to increased IATs in normal country road driving where I'm only doing 0 to 30, 40, or 60MPH pulls, not 30 to 130MPH haha.

It does seem like the intercooler is great for those long, drag race or highway pulls because you end up with a lower average IAT. I'm just hoping I don't end up with higher IATs for my personal use case (daily driver that I like to accelerate fast in).

You mentioned that once air is pulled in through the IC you'll see a -15C drop. If that's the case, awesome! But from what Hawk is saying, it seems like that's not the case. Perhaps I'm missing something.

In the winter, the fuel temperature is also lower and that helps a lot vs knock. It isn't all IATs.

 

[Mr. Tech]

@Hawk373 I think this is the part that's confusing me:

Once I finished modifying my grill with the snorkels I was seeing between 13 and 18 on the regular. It would creep up in the low to mid 20s at a light and then quickly come back down, especially under acceleration.
Now it heats up quickly and into the 30s and beyond at a light. I’m seeing between 19 and 23ish now. It doesn’t fall quite as rapidly once I start moving again. Has to be that pipe, it’s right in the line of fire from all 4 of the car’s heat exchangers and radiant heat off the timing cover.

When I read this, it looks like your IATs increase at least 10 degrees when at a stop, and don't come down as quickly as they did with the stock setup once you start moving again. I would at least expect the Mishi intercooler to bring the temps down faster than stock when you start moving again, but it doesn't look like that's the case from your experience. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the highlighted sentences.

 

[Mr. Tech]

In the winter, the fuel temperature is also lower and that helps a lot vs knock. It isn't all IATs.

Good point on the fuel temps. Hadn't considered that one.

 

[Mr. Tech]

Just to make it clear. When i am saying previous experience i mean experience with my previous car which was not stinger, but chevy hhr ss with 4 cylinder turbocharged engine. And the reason i swiched to aftermarket piping was because it came, like almost all turbocharged cars these days, with plastic piping. That is why i really dont see the reason to modify the stock pipes on stinger. It IS realy, really good from the factory. And unless you are pushing lot more air with bigger turbochargers, what is the point of bigger diameter pipes??

Ah, gotcha. I thought you were referring to the Stinger with your past experience. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[niko]

@Mishimoto can u explain y people are getting higher IATs and why is the weight disclaimer on the site is different than it actually weighs

 

[Hawk853]

@Hawk373 I think this is the part that's confusing me:



When I read this, it looks like your IATs increase at least 10 degrees when at a stop, and don't come down as quickly as they did with the stock setup once you start moving again. I would at least expect the Mishi intercooler to bring the temps down faster than stock when you start moving again, but it doesn't look like that's the case from your experience. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the highlighted sentences.

What I’m saying is I think the uninsulated pipe is getting hot and then staying warm because it’s right behind the aftercooler, trans cooler, oil cooler and radiator, plus whatever radiant heat is coming off the timing cover and the hot ambient engine bay air.

I’d like to replicate the protection of the OE cold side pipe insulation and then go from there. But, I’m also bringing it up here so people can consider installing from the start and avoid disassembly like me. I’ll be fussing with it this weekend if it’s not raining out.

I’m still kicking around Cerakoting it and making it the same bronze as my catch cans.

 

[Nomad76]

Has anyone considered stripping the finish off the intercooler to allow for faster heat transfer?

 

[Spaceme17]

Has anyone considered stripping the finish off the intercooler to allow for faster heat transfer?

This has been proven that there is no difference between bare metal and coated inter coolers.

 

[Hawk853]

Has anyone considered stripping the finish off the intercooler to allow for faster heat transfer?

There’s actually a Cerakote product that promotes conductivity for radiators, engine blocks and such. It would be a pricy install for the gained benefit though. Comes in black and a dark grey.

With the way the fins aren’t a straight thru design and the core is so thick, probably only the most superficial fins get a coating on them and the majority is bare.

 

[Spaceme17]

Can you use the stock IC pipes on the Mishi kit? I thought the entirety of the Mishi kit used larger pipes that didn't match the OEM pipes. Or are you saying you reverted back to stock pipes on an IC kit from another company?

Does anyone have any data that suggests that this Mishi kit is NOT detrimental outside of drag racing? Seems that even in drag racing, your low end is going to suffer due to considerably higher IATs, then you'll get better top end due to the faster cooling.

I'm gonna hold off on installing mine. If the verdict ends up being that this is only beneficial in a track or drag race setting, and detrimental for daily driving, I'll be posting a brand new one for sale here... or possibly trying to get a refund... unless there's something we can coat the pipes in to bring IATs down to at least stock levels.

Won’t be detrimental in daily driving.

But the intercooler really is only truly beneficial in repeated drag runs or track racing. The factory intercooler and piping is very well designed.

 

[Spaceme17]

I think what is going on with the increase in IAT’s you are seeing is mainly a matter of the surface area of the Mishimoto pipes in the engine bay versus stock. More surface area of piping will absorb more heat.

Probably need either a rubberized outside coating or a ceramic coating on the various pipes.

But if the intercooler is keeping temps much more even and consistent, the benefit overall better and the increased IAT’s shouldn’t matter.

 

[Mr. Tech]

What I’m saying is I think the uninsulated pipe is getting hot and then staying warm because it’s right behind the aftercooler, trans cooler, oil cooler and radiator, plus whatever radiant heat is coming off the timing cover and the hot ambient engine bay air.

I’d like to replicate the protection of the OE cold side pipe insulation and then go from there. But, I’m also bringing it up here so people can consider installing from the start and avoid disassembly like me. I’ll be fussing with it this weekend if it’s not raining out.

I’m still kicking around Cerakoting it and making it the same bronze as my catch cans.

Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully you have success with bringing temps back down. But just to confirm, are you only seeing the increased temps when cruising? How do your temps look after a pull or two? Have you seen any improvements there or is it similar to your cruising results?

 

[Mr. Tech]

I think what is going on with the increase in IAT’s you are seeing is mainly a matter of the surface area of the Mishimoto pipes in the engine bay versus stock. More surface area of piping will absorb more heat.

Probably need either a rubberized outside coating or a ceramic coating on the various pipes.

But if the intercooler is keeping temps much more even and consistent, the benefit overall better and the increased IAT’s shouldn’t matter.

True, I wouldn't mind the baseline IAT being a bit higher as long as the IATs throughout a pull and with consecutive pulls is lower than stock, on average.

And yeah, I'll have to do some research on available coating options. I don't mind wrapping/coating the pipes prior to install if it'll make a notable difference.

 

[Nomad76]

Are there any aerosol ceramic coatings that work?

 

[xot1]

While I don't contest Hawk373's findings, it would be nice if there was someone else to confirm the same observation.
I wish I could test it but I am having a little problem with my car at the moment, can't install it yet.

 

[Przemek]

While I don't contest Hawk373's findings, it would be nice if there was someone else to confirm the same observation.
I wish I could test it but I am having a little problem with my car at the moment, can't install it yet.

Yes, would be great to know. I've ordered 2 kits but the delivery is delayed so I am able to cancel the order. I am surprised that there is such a huge difference in claimed and real weight (this was the reason why I gave up the European Wagner) and now I can see that there is an issue with increasing IAT temperature for daily driving, which is what I need these ICs for.... let's see what Mishimoto says...

 

[xot1]

Yes, would be great to know. I've ordered 2 kits but the delivery is delayed so I am able to cancel the order. I am surprised that there is such a huge difference in claimed and real weight (this was the reason why I gave up the European Wagner) and now I can see that there is an issue with increasing IAT temperature for daily driving, which is what I need these ICs for.... let's see what Mishimoto says...

Weight was also one of the factors when I decided to replace my Wagner with Mishimoto!

These were the pros/cons when I made the purchase decision:



But then if weight is the same and IATs are indeed higher (need more data on this), it changes a bit the balance between the two products:



(Looks and price are subjective things so I took them out of the equation.)

 

[Przemek]

Weight was also one of the factors when I decided to replace my Wagner with Mishimoto!

These were the pros/cons when I made the purchase decision:

View attachment 51374

But then if weight is the same and IATs are indeed higher (need more data on this), it changes a bit the balance between the two products:

View attachment 51375

(Looks and price are subjective things so I took them out of the equation.)

The price of Wagner incl. piping and snorkels + delivery (from the EU to Poland, where I live) is around 15-20% less expensive than Mishimoto (cost of duty and delivery from the US is pretty high).

 

[Mr. Tech]

While I don't contest Hawk373's findings, it would be nice if there was someone else to confirm the same observation.
I wish I could test it but I am having a little problem with my car at the moment, can't install it yet.

@17th_Letter, what do your IATs look like for daily driving? I'm pretty sure you're the only other person with the Mishi kit installed right now. Every IC will heat up a lot when stopped for long enough so I'm more concerned about what your temps are when at cruising speed (30MPH and up).