Kia undecided on 2nd Generation Stinger

[Kamauxx]

According to Mr. Guillaume it is.

Lmao. He designed it. I'm sure he thinks it's one of the most important automotive creations since the Model T. That doesn't make it so.

Everyone that has ever designed a car should think of it as a "halo" model. What matters is what the company's big wigs and bean counters think.

 

[Jay Tea]

Merlin -
On the 2018 GT2:
The lower front "grill" is 45 inches wide. Of that, only 25 inches allows air into the inter-cooler / radiators. That translates to 45% FAKE.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Merlin -
On the 2018 GT2:
The lower front "grill" is 45 inches wide. Of that, only 25 inches allows air into the inter-cooler / radiators. That translates to 45% FAKE.

I see. You have 45% more bugs to clean off; for the sake of appearances. (To what extent the air transfer also affects stability at high speeds: I can only say that the Stinger as-is gets to be just as stable at 150+ MPH as at 70.)

 

[westcoastGT]

The Stinger isn't a halo car. I can't think of a car company producing a "halo" car that starts at $32k.

The K900 ( ) is a halo car.

K , read the quote from Kia , it's their word

 

[Kamauxx]

K , read the quote from Kia , it's their word

I've never seen anything from Kia referring to it as a halo car. Searching "Kia Stinger Halo Car" on the Google machine doesn't pull it up either. Got a link?

If I'm wrong (which never happens! ) and a Kia executive (outside of the Stinger design team) referred to the Stinger as the brands halo car I would question their thinking. Generally, a automaker's halo car will have the best of everything the brand can produce. That's top of the line interior, exterior, performance, technology, etc. No corners cut. And that usually means it won't have a starting price that puts it in competition with mass produced cars like the Accord and Camry.

 

[YEH]

I think Kia has borrowed design ques from the Stinger and applied them to several of their cars already , look at the Forte and Sportage as examples

That's been a common refrain by the automotive press (and Kia, itself), but not actual reality (makes good press, tho).

they will keep the design language and possibly discontinue the car ..............but if you consider the Cadenza , it was a much worse sales performer and it made it to Gen 2 ..........

Diff. is, the Cadenza sells well in Korea, and sales of the recent F/L Cadenza has gone bonkers - outselling even the Hyundai Grandeur (formerly known here as the Azera) which has been the best selling car in Korea for the past several years.

the difference now is the HUGE success they are having with their SUV lineup esp Telluride , the Sorento is being completely redesigned from the ground up and they have the Mohave coming as well ..............the logistics of "too many" models impacts production right through to showroom space .......................

The new Sorento would just replace production capacity of the outgoing one.

The Mohave is just a F/L of the current model (and likely won't make it's way here).

However, Kia is working on a BoF pick-up and SUV (along w/ Hyundai) - which may or may not make it here (depending on where production is set).

If they transitioned the Stinger to a Genesis ( G70 GC ) it might work . Kind of a BMW strategy where they have the 4 series sedan and 4 series Grand Coupe . I could imagine that working , but again Genesis is betting heavy with SUVs and will launch 3 new entries in the next 2 years .......................its a tough call ..................emotionally I'm sure they want to keep it , from a financial perspective the Stinger is probably a boat anchor ...................

Genesis has an entry level 2-door coupe in the pipeline, so doubt that they will be interested in adding another car to their lineup; plus, what Kia does or does not do has no bearing on Genesis.

Considering that the Stinger uses a variation of the Genesis platform and uses powertrains already in use by Genesis (the 2 biggest cost factors in development), the cost is not as big as one may think.

Note all the variations of body-styles that the Germans offer.

For instance - the 3/4 Series (6 body-styles and that's not including the CUV variants).

3 Series - sedan/wagon/hatchback (gran turismo)

4 Series - coupe/4-door coupe (gran coupe)/convertible

Now, BMW is doing away w/ the GT and Audi is looking to combine its fasbacks into 1 model, so even the Germans are starting to feel the pinch of costs of electrification and autonomous drive systems.

I looked at the (even porkier) Genesis G80 Sport and decided the Stinger was the better car for me. And I do hope the Stinger stays in the Kia stable. While I like the Genesis concept, I'm semi-disturbed that they felt it necessary to copy the Bentley badge to make their case. I'm happy that my Kia badges confuse and confound the car-curious public who riddle me with questions. But I could never tolerate a pair of flying Bentley wings on my rice rocket.

Did Genesis copy Bentley or was it Aston Martin, Austin-Healey, Chrysler, Mini, Ford (Thunderbird), etc.?

Winged badges are pretty ubiquitous in the automotive industry.

Not exactly a fan of the Genesis wings, but wouldn't mistake it for any of the others.

 

[YEH]

Precisely my point - the pricing strategy across the entire range needs adjustment. The price for the GT is fine, but they need to drag the starting price for the range down, at least in our local market here.

Right now, the base Stinger sits at least $5k north of other (and better specced) "large family sedans" in the market - Camry, Accord, Commodore, etc.

Don't quite understand why you think the Stinger should be priced more similarly to FWD family sedans - that's what the Optima is for.

It is at least $5k more than sporty cars - Toyota FT86/Subaru BRZ, WRX, Golf GTI, etc.

Don't quite understand this either.

Kia doesn't have a competitor to the 86/BRZ and its competitor to the Golf is the Ceed.

It sits on no-man's land - too expensive to compete in either market, and a 2.5L turbo engine won't fix that.

Dropping the price of the base Stinger would give Kia an opportunity to gain something they're simply not getting at present - sales volume. Sales volume will increase awareness of the vehicle because there's more of them on the roads. Increased awareness will lead to more sales.

Right now, you can get a fully loaded Optima GT for $45k on road, and the base Stinger for $50k on road (both before negotiating). The Optima is basically the same size, has the same engine, is potentially a little faster (FWD is more efficient, it potentially weighs less) and it's species up substantially over a base Stinger 200S.

Stinger already outsells Optima 3:1 - they'd be much better to sell more Stingers (there is an untapped RWD family car demographic still floating around here, who have been forced into FWD cars against their wishes).

The Stinger is basically the fastback equivalent of the Genesis G70 - which is priced significantly higher than the Stinger, despite the Stinger being a larger and a fastback (both things adding costs - see A5 Sportback vs. A4 sedan pricing).

The Stinger is basically 2 segments higher than the Optima (Camry, Accord) - Stinger > Cadenza > Optima, so expecting it to be priced similarly to the Optima, Camry, etc. is unrealistic.

The fact that it outsells the Optima 3:! exemplifies the value that it offers in the Australian market.

There have been numerous complaints about pricing for the G70 (some of it a bit overblown as it is priced right w/ the Lexus IS, despite offering more power, a nicer interior and more service amenities like maintenance); granted, w/ the set/no haggle pricing, don't expect Genesis to sell a lot of G70s, but the bigger issue presently is the lack of showrooms other than the one in Sydney.

I'm sure Genesis will have sales towards the end of a MY, lowering the price of entry at certain times, but it's the correct move to price it in line w/ its most direct competition.

Think the reason why the vast majority of sales in Australia has been for the TTV6 trims is b/c the premium to upgrade to the better motor isn't prohibitive and thus, worth it.

But w/ the 2.5T motor, future prospective buyers may be content w/ the power that it offers w/o feeling the need to upgrade.

 

[Kamauxx]

Stinger > Cadenza > Optima, so expecting it to be priced similarly to the Optima, Camry, etc. is unrealistic.

The 2.0t Stinger is priced pretty close to a similarly equipped 2.0t Accord. A fully loaded V6 Camry has 50 more hp than the similarly priced Stinger and it's lighter, cheaper, and faster.

There's no doubt people are cross-shopping those cars. And I'm sure the Optima, Accord, and Camry have all taken sales away from 2.0t Stingers when the buyer doesn't care about RWD vs FWD or fastback vs traditional trunk.

Why do you say the Stinger is better than the Cadenza? Full-size luxury sedan vs mid-size GT...kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

I got it! It's because of all the warranty work they're paying out that makes the Stinger so unprofitable.

 

[Devin]

I've never seen anything from Kia referring to it as a halo car. Searching "Kia Stinger Halo Car" on the Google machine doesn't pull it up either. Got a link?

If I'm wrong (which never happens! ) and a Kia executive (outside of the Stinger design team) referred to the Stinger as the brands halo car I would question their thinking. Generally, a automaker's halo car will have the best of everything the brand can produce. That's top of the line interior, exterior, performance, technology, etc. No corners cut. And that usually means it won't have a starting price that puts it in competition with mass produced cars like the Accord and Camry.

What you think is literally unimportant to my point. The design chief engineer says it is their halo car, so unless he's off the reservation, they believe it is their halo car.

So with that said, my point is since they believe it is a halo car, it surprises me that they would be truly worried about volume of sales.

 

[LegacyGTv2.0]

Honestly, pricing strategy with the Stinger (and Kia in general) is a little confusing. At full MSRP, it's a pretty expensive ask, but that's true for any of the Kia's, except maybe the Telluride. Part of that seems to be that Kia bakes in large discounts (an Optima seems to be priced above a Camry).
I can see where the sales figures are disappointing, the figures I saw for 2018 looked like it had lower volume than the A5 or 4-series. Those aren't exactly volume models.
On the other hand, Kia has the K900 and Cadenza still hanging around, and the sales figures on those are TERRIBLE. Year-to-date K900 sales....279, which is actually a huge increase over the 230 sold in all of 2018....
News - Sales Data - Sales Data - Kia Motors America Newsroom

 

[westcoastGT]

That's been a common refrain by the automotive press (and Kia, itself), but not actual reality (makes good press, tho).




Diff. is, the Cadenza sells well in Korea, and sales of the recent F/L Cadenza has gone bonkers - outselling even the Hyundai Grandeur (formerly known here as the Azera) which has been the best selling car in Korea for the past several years.




The new Sorento would just replace production capacity of the outgoing one.

The Mohave is just a F/L of the current model (and likely won't make it's way here).

However, Kia is working on a BoF pick-up and SUV (along w/ Hyundai) - which may or may not make it here (depending on where production is set).




Genesis has an entry level 2-door coupe in the pipeline, so doubt that they will be interested in adding another car to their lineup; plus, what Kia does or does not do has no bearing on Genesis.

Considering that the Stinger uses a variation of the Genesis platform and uses powertrains already in use by Genesis (the 2 biggest cost factors in development), the cost is not as big as one may think.

Note all the variations of body-styles that the Germans offer.

For instance - the 3/4 Series (6 body-styles and that's not including the CUV variants).

3 Series - sedan/wagon/hatchback (gran turismo)

4 Series - coupe/4-door coupe (gran coupe)/convertible

Now, BMW is doing away w/ the GT and Audi is looking to combine its fasbacks into 1 model, so even the Germans are starting to feel the pinch of costs of electrification and autonomous drive systems.





Did Genesis copy Bentley or was it Aston Martin, Austin-Healey, Chrysler, Mini, Ford (Thunderbird), etc.?

Winged badges are pretty ubiquitous in the automotive industry.

Not exactly a fan of the Genesis wings, but wouldn't mistake it for any of the others.

............you should really learn to express your opinions !!

 

[Manaz]

Don't quite understand why you think the Stinger should be priced more similarly to FWD family sedans - that's what the Optima is for.

Not in Australia. Kia list the Optima as a Medium sized car, and the Stinger as a large car.

Large Family Sedans currently for sale in Australia (new), up to $100k:

Holden Commodore/Calais - starts at $32k
Toyota Camry - starts at $32k
Mazda 6 - starts at $34k
Hyundai Sonata - starts at $35k
Subaru Liberty - starts at $35k
Infiniti Q50 - starts at $37k
VW Passat - starts at $40k
Honda Accord - starts at $50k
Kia Stinger - starts at $51k
Alfa Romeo Guilia - starts at $55k
Peugeot 508 - starts at $58k
Chrysler 300 - starts at $61k
Audi A4 - starts at $65k
Mercedes Benz C-Class - starts at $70k
Tesla Model 3 - starts at $72k
BMW 3-series - starts at $73k
Volvo S60 - starts at $73k
Genesis G80 - starts at $78k
Genesis G70 - starts at $82k
Lexus GS - starts at $85k
Jaguar XF - starts at $93k

Every single car starting above the Stinger's starting point is considered a premium or luxury brand. Some of those below the Stinger are sold as premium brands as well - Infiniti (giggle-worthy as that is, that price has plummeted of late), VW.

Don't quite understand this either.

Kia doesn't have a competitor to the 86/BRZ and its competitor to the Golf is the Ceed.

The Stinger is marketed as a sporty RWD car (note I didn't say RWD sports car). Yet it costs a lot more than the affordable models - 86/BRZ, MX-5/Miata, etc. It costs a lot more than a WRX (a sporty reasonably sized vehicle that can absolutely run as a family sedan - the current WRX is as big as my 4Gen Liberty[Legacy] was).

A V6 Camry can be had for $43k and is as fast as a 2.0L Stinger 0-100km/h. The 2.0L turbo Commodore is less than a second slower, and starts at $32k - the cheapest V6 Commodore can be had for $43k and is just as fast as a 2.0L Stinger (and is AWD to boot).

The Stinger is basically the fastback equivalent of the Genesis G70 - which is priced significantly higher than the Stinger, despite the Stinger being a larger and a fastback (both things adding costs - see A5 Sportback vs. A4 sedan pricing).

Being larger adds very little to the cost for the manufacturer actually, but adds a lot to price.

The G70 is marketed as a luxury car, with a starting price in excess of $80k. It's not even close to being in the same market.

The Stinger is basically 2 segments higher than the Optima (Camry, Accord) - Stinger > Cadenza > Optima, so expecting it to be priced similarly to the Optima, Camry, etc. is unrealistic.

The fact that it outsells the Optima 3:! exemplifies the value that it offers in the Australian market.

Kia don't need to outsell the Optima. They need to outsell the competition, and to sell more units.

Holden sold 509 Commodores in August 2019, and have sold 4,220 YTD in 2019, and the Commodore is considered a sales disaster.
Mazda sold 201 Mazda 6s in August 2019, and have sold 1,945 YTD in 2019.
Subaru sold 179 Libertys in August 2019, and have sold 757 YTD in 2019.
Kia sold 172 Stingers in August 2019, and have sold 1,266 YTD in 2019.

And for something completely different, Toyota sold 1,290 Camrys in August 2019 (so more in a month than Kia have sold Stingers all year), and have sold 10,828 YTD in 2019.

There have been numerous complaints about pricing for the G70 (some of it a bit overblown as it is priced right w/ the Lexus IS, despite offering more power, a nicer interior and more service amenities like maintenance); granted, w/ the set/no haggle pricing, don't expect Genesis to sell a lot of G70s, but the bigger issue presently is the lack of showrooms other than the one in Sydney.

I'm sure Genesis will have sales towards the end of a MY, lowering the price of entry at certain times, but it's the correct move to price it in line w/ its most direct competition.

As I said, I don't consider the G70 to be in the same market segment, despite sharing an underlying platform with the Stinger.

The lack of showrooms, and the stuffy and arrogant nature of the people staffing it will be a real issue for them. I've never been practically growled at by a salesman and security guard before at a dealership for daring to have my kids with me outside the store...

I'd argue that as the latest player in the market, they need to be offering a differentiator rather than just being the same as the others. The one thing Genesis doesn't have is a reputation in the market - as much as they cars may be as good as Lexus offerings, they don't have the runs on the board just yet.

Think the reason why the vast majority of sales in Australia has been for the TTV6 trims is b/c the premium to upgrade to the better motor isn't prohibitive and thus, worth it.

But w/ the 2.5T motor, future prospective buyers may be content w/ the power that it offers w/o feeling the need to upgrade.

That's exactly my point. There's no reason at present to select the cheaper models, so they're not selling. If they offered a product at a lower price point, they'd gain access to the lower end of the market, and would drive increased sales volume.

Kia could drop the Optima from the lineup entirely - they've only sold 313 of them YTD. I suspect most of those sales would easily convert to Stinger sales if the price point was closer, and the overheads to maintain sales support for one vehicle rather than two would more than outweigh what sales they might lose.

The 2.0T has enough power already - 185kW is plenty in the market it competes in - the 2.5L turbo in the Mazda 6 has 170kW, The 2.0L turbo Commodore has 195kW, the 2.5L Camry has only 133kW (the V6 has 224kW), the Liberty H6 has under 200kW. The 2.5L turbo won't add any reason for more people to buy the car - in this part of the market, price is a massive factor.

 

[YEH]

The 2.0t Stinger is priced pretty close to a similarly equipped 2.0t Accord. A fully loaded V6 Camry has 50 more hp than the similarly priced Stinger and it's lighter, cheaper, and faster.

There's no doubt people are cross-shopping those cars. And I'm sure the Optima, Accord, and Camry have all taken sales away from 2.0t Stingers when the buyer doesn't care about RWD vs FWD or fastback vs traditional trunk.

Yeah, people cross-shop - some think RWD and the more upscale interior is worth it and others don't.

Even taking away RWD, some think a more upscale interior (and added service amenities) is worth it (i.e. - Lexus ES over Toyota Avalon), others don't.

But the fact is, the Stinger is not a direct competitor to the Accord, Camry, etc. - again, that's what the Optima is for (one wouldn't price the Cadenza similarly to the Accord, etc., so why would Kia do so for the Stinger?).

The Stinger GT is priced at $60k AU - that's less than the top spec Lexus IS (which is smaller and a sedan) and in line w/ the base trim of the FWD Lexus ES (granted, a hybrid).

The most direct competitors to the Stinger are the A5/S5 Sportback and 4 Series GC.

To get similar performance to the Stinger GT, one has to opt for the S5 which starts at $105k AU.

Comparably equipped to the GT, the price of the S5 rises to around $116k.

Guess what? Some buyers cross-shop the GT w/ the S5 and decide that the S5 isn't worth shelling out the extra $56k and don't want to settle for the performance of the A5 Sportback (for which they still have to spend more $$ than for the GT).

Why do you say the Stinger is better than the Cadenza? Full-size luxury sedan vs mid-size GT...kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

The Stinger is seen as higher up in Kia's hierarchy, as it's a luxury model, while the Cadenza is more of a near luxury model.

It's the same reason why the IS is higher up on Lexus' hierarchy than the ES, despite being smaller in size (same reason why the CTS was higher up on Cadillac's hierarchy than the larger XTS).

Note that the Stinger, IS and CTS all went up considerably higher in price than their respective FWD stablemates.

 

[YEH]

Not in Australia. Kia list the Optima as a Medium sized car, and the Stinger as a large car.

That has more to do w/ the inane size categories than the actual competitive set.

For instance, the Hyundai ix35 (aka Tucson) was categorized as a Small SUV w/ the likes of the Mazda CX-3 and Honda HR-V when its actual competitive set are the CX-5 and CR-V (which are categorized as Medium SUVs).

When Hyundai changed the name to the Tucson w/ the current model, it got bumped up into the Medium SUV segment.

In the Medium over $60,000 segment, both the MB C Class and CLA are included altho MB clearly slots the CLA underneath the C Class.

Like for the US EPA category ratings, these segments have more to do w/ interior space than actual competitive sets.

For instance, in the US, the Accord and Sonata are categorized by the EPA as being full-size despite the industry understanding that they are in the midsize segment.

Want to know what else the EPA categorizes as full-size along models like the S Class, 7 Series, G90, etc.?

BMW 330 Gran Turismo
Civic 5-door hatch
Elantra GT hatch
Optima (along w/ the Cadenza and K900)
Arteon

Oddly enough, not the Stinger, but nonetheless, you really think the the Optima, Cadenza and K900 all compete w/ each other as full-size models?


Large Family Sedans currently for sale in Australia (new), up to $100k:

Holden Commodore/Calais - starts at $32k
Toyota Camry - starts at $32k
Mazda 6 - starts at $34k
Hyundai Sonata - starts at $35k
Subaru Liberty - starts at $35k
Infiniti Q50 - starts at $37k
VW Passat - starts at $40k
Honda Accord - starts at $50k
Kia Stinger - starts at $51k
Alfa Romeo Guilia - starts at $55k
Peugeot 508 - starts at $58k
Chrysler 300 - starts at $61k
Audi A4 - starts at $65k
Mercedes Benz C-Class - starts at $70k
Tesla Model 3 - starts at $72k
BMW 3-series - starts at $73k
Volvo S60 - starts at $73k
Genesis G80 - starts at $78k
Genesis G70 - starts at $82k
Lexus GS - starts at $85k
Jaguar XF - starts at $93k

Taking out the luxury branded vehicles, the only models that maybe competes w/ the Stinger are the Commodore and the 300.

Even in the US, the Commodore (aka Buick Regal Sportback) starts considerably lower than the Stinger ($25.3k US vs. $33k).

In Europe, the Regal's competition from Kia is seen as the Optima, not the Stinger.

Like I had stated, the Stinger is essentially the larger fastback variant of the G70 - which you noted starts considerably higher in price ($82K vs. $51k).

The BMW and Audi equivalent to the Stinger would be the 4 Series GC and A5/S5 Sportback which are considerably more $$ than the 3 Series and A4/S5.

Along the same lines, the closest VW equivalent would be the Arteon (starting at $65.5k) and not the Passat.

Considering that Stinger is still considerably less expensive than the non-lux branded Arteon, much less even more so in comparison to the lux-branded 4 Series GC and A5/S5 Sportback, the Stinger is a relative bargain.

Every single car starting above the Stinger's starting point is considered a premium or luxury brand. Some of those below the Stinger are sold as premium brands as well - Infiniti (giggle-worthy as that is, that price has plummeted of late), VW.

Guess what the most expensive domestic model is in Japan?

It's not a Lexus, but a Toyota.

And the powertrain and architecture of the Stinger is more premium/lux than that of the Lexus ES - no matter the sales distribution channel and marketing.

The Stinger is marketed as a sporty RWD car (note I didn't say RWD sports car). Yet it costs a lot more than the affordable models - 86/BRZ, MX-5/Miata, etc. It costs a lot more than a WRX (a sporty reasonably sized vehicle that can absolutely run as a family sedan - the current WRX is as big as my 4Gen Liberty[Legacy] was).

Really don't understand why you are comparing something like the 86/BRZ or the Miata to the Stinger.

The G70 is marketed as a luxury car, with a starting price in excess of $80k. It's not even close to being in the same market.

Really need to get over the brand/marketing thing.

Again, the Stinger is basically a larger fastback version of the G70.

In both the States/Canada and Europe - the Stinger has most been compared to the 4 Series GC and A5/S5 Sportback.

By your logic, the Nissan GT-R and Chevy Corvette should be priced alongside the 86/BRZ since they are just Nissans and Chevys (and unlike the Stinger, the GT-R is actually a 2+2 coupe).

Heck, the new Toyota Supra should be as well.

As I said, I don't consider the G70 to be in the same market segment, despite sharing an underlying platform with the Stinger.

The lack of showrooms, and the stuffy and arrogant nature of the people staffing it will be a real issue for them. I've never been practically growled at by a salesman and security guard before at a dealership for daring to have my kids with me outside the store...

I'd argue that as the latest player in the market, they need to be offering a differentiator rather than just being the same as the others. The one thing Genesis doesn't have is a reputation in the market - as much as they cars may be as good as Lexus offerings, they don't have the runs on the board just yet.

Well, what you consider doesn't hold precedent.

And we shall see how thinks shake up for Genesis in Australia.

But in the US and Canada, the G80 has outsold the GS by a good margin and last month the G90 outsold the LS 500 27 to 4.

 

[Manaz]

This whole thread started because there's conjecture that the Stinger may not see a v2 because sales are too low. What I've been offering is a reason as to why sales are low, and how Kia could potentially improve them in the Australian market.

Even in the US, the Commodore (aka Buick Regal Sportback) starts considerably lower than the Stinger ($25.3k US vs. $33k).

In Europe, the Regal's competition from Kia is seen as the Optima, not the Stinger.

That's in Europe. I'm not talking about Europe, I don't pretend to know their market as well as I know the local Australian market.

In Australia, the Commodore starts ~40% cheaper than a Stinger - and that's list price. Holden will sell a Commodore for well less than $30k, I reckon you could get one for less than 50% of the list price of a base 200S Stinger (there's no discount available there). You could get a Camry for <$30k too I suspect.

Taking out the luxury branded vehicles, the only models that maybe competes w/ the Stinger are the Commodore and the 300.

As I said, I'm talking specific to the Australian market. The Kia competes in the "family sedans that can be purchased for lower than the LCT (Luxury Car Tax) threshold, then anything that you can buy for < $66k or so." segment.

Let's look at the size of those cars I listed earlier that match that criteria:

Holden Commodore/Calais - 4.9m long, 1.9m wide, 2.9m wheelbase
Toyota Camry - 4.9m long, 1.9m wide, 2.8m wheelbase
Mazda 6 - 4.7m long, 1.8m wide, 2.7m wheelbase
Hyundai Sonata - 4.8m long, 1.8m wide, 2.8m wheelbase
Subaru Liberty - 4.7m long, 1.8m wide, 2.7m wheelbase
Infiniti Q50 - 4.8m long, 1.8m wide, 2.8m wheelbase
VW Passat - 4.8m long, 1.8m wide, 2.8m wheelbase
Honda Accord - 4.9m long, 1.8m wide, 2.8m wheelbase
Kia Stinger - 4.8m long, 1.8m wide, 2.9m wheelbase
Chrysler 300 - 5m long, 1.8m wide, 3m wheelbase
Audi A4 - 4.7m long, 1.8m wide, 2.8m wheelbase

As you can see - they're basically all within 10-20cm (4-8") of each other in every dimension (the 300 being the exception). Width and wheelbase are probably more important than absolute length, because they define the passenger compartment size. They're all absolutely competitors in that aspect.

And the Stinger is not price competitive with any of them other than the Accord, 300 and Audi A4 - the next cheaper model is $10k cheaper, and the cheapest in the segment is $19k cheaper (to put that another way: 70% of the other cars in the segment start off ~20% to ~40% cheaper - of those other three that are close, their combined monthly sales in August were lower than that of the Stinger, barely topping 100 units).

That's where the Stinger competes in terms of market segment in Australia. And it fails to compete on cost.

Along the same lines, the closest VW equivalent would be the Arteon (starting at $65.5k) and not the Passat.

The Arteon replaces the Passat CC. The Passat is still the natural competitor here.

Really don't understand why you are comparing something like the 86/BRZ or the Miata to the Stinger.

Because as a sporty RWD car, it is cross-shopped with these cars, and the price points are relatively close (and all below the LCT threshold). Just as the Stinger is cross-shopped against a WRX (4.6m length, 1.8m width, 2.7m wheelbase), which you continue to ignore completely.

Really need to get over the brand/marketing thing.

Again, the Stinger is basically a larger fastback version of the G70.

In both the States/Canada and Europe - the Stinger has most been compared to the 4 Series GC and A5/S5 Sportback.

By your logic, the Nissan GT-R and Chevy Corvette should be priced alongside the 86/BRZ since they are just Nissans and Chevys (and unlike the Stinger, the GT-R is actually a 2+2 coupe).

Heck, the new Toyota Supra should be as well.

Kia aren't aiming the Stinger as a competitor to luxury brands. Genesis are doing that. In the US, you guys don't pay the premiums we pay for BMW/Audi/etc - those cars are $90k+ vehicles in Australia.

The GTR, Corvette and Supra are completely different vehicles. They're bespoke to start with, and don't compete in the same market segment as the Stinger does here. They're not even close - they're all $100k+ cars here. Nor are they volume cars, and nor are they likely to be pulled due to low sales numbers.

Well, what you consider doesn't hold precedent.

And we shall see how thinks shake up for Genesis in Australia.

But in the US and Canada, the G80 has outsold the GS by a good margin and last month the G90 outsold the LS 500 27 to 4.

G70 sales in August 2019 in Australia: 7 (43 YTD)
Lexus IS sales in August 2019 in Australia: 59 (598 YTD)

G80 sales in August 2019 in Australia: 12 (36 YTD)
Lexus ES sales in August 2019 in Australia: 41 (406 YTD)

We don't get the G90 here.
Lexus GS sales in August 2019 in Australia: 2 (20 YTD). Maybe this is why

 

[MerlintheMad]

Don't quite understand why you think the Stinger should be priced more similarly to FWD family sedans - that's what the Optima is for.

Not in Australia. Kia list the Optima as a Medium sized car, and the Stinger as a large car.

Lol. The Optima is c. an inch longer and c. 3" taller than the Stinger.
But that hatch is the kicker and makes the Stinger "larger". Okay.
The Stinger looks like it should cost more, so it costs more.
It's fatter in the hips, so more opulent stance.
Aggressive performance.

The Stinger looms "larger" in a crowd. Kia is savvy. They know they can make more on a Stinger than an Optima. And even more if the MSRP is higher than an Optima.

 

[westcoastGT]

This Thread is getting way too ...............OFF TOPIC !!! Yeh and Manaz might want to take this somewhere else ......................

 

[Kamauxx]

The Stinger is seen as higher up in Kia's hierarchy, as it's a luxury model, while the Cadenza is more of a near luxury model.

You have that backwards. The Cadenza is Kia's second most luxurious sedan (behind the K900). No one ever describes the Stinger as a luxury car. Is the interior serviceable? Sure. Is it luxurious? No. And it wasn't meant to be a luxury car. Its marketed as a performance Gran Tourer.

On the Cadenza's page of kia.com Kia posted in large font "Luxury simplified. Take a step toward luxury with a full-size sedan that reflects meticulous attention to detail and craftsmanship."

On the Stinger's page of kia.com Kia posted "Stunning performance. The Stinger strikes the perfect balance of power and refinement to deliver high performance and supreme comfort on the open road."

Apple & oranges with similar price points.

2019 Kia Cadenza - Sedan Pricing & Features | Kia

2019 Kia Stinger - Sports Sedan Pricing & Features | Kia

 

[Kamauxx]

This Thread is getting way too ...............OFF TOPIC !!! Yeh and Manaz might want to take this somewhere else ......................

Bah humbug!