I can't stand other drivers

[Ozstung]

You are allowed to make a mistake though and we all do. But that's OK because we know we made it. It's those behind that don't so it can be misconstrued by others into road rage. Take it easy. I can follow a vehicle for one kilometre and record ten road rule breaches. 1. Above the speed limit. 2. Hitting a continuous line at the side or centre. 3. Cutting a corner. 4. Failing to give way. 5. Entering a bike lane. 6. Failing to indicate around a parked car. 7. Failing to stop at a yellow light. 8. Turning in front of incoming traffic. 9. Using the horn except in emergency. 10. Pulling into or out of a curb without indicating. All minor indiscretions and all not a problem to the driver because hey the guy that cut you off now HE is the big problem along with the guy in the outside lane. So, any of those minor indiscretions will cause someone else grief, but that's OK because it didn't cause YOU grief. So rather than whinge about everyone out there which is actually YOU on another day...........log onto your government legislation and read those 4000 plus rules you never knew existed.

Lived in Oz 45 years and the first thing we noticed from our drive from the airport is if you leave any semblance of a gap in front someone will cut in front of you without giving a shit.

Second thing especially in rural Oz is the crazy tailgating it seems to be a sport out this way since I've moved here.

Thirdly the mandatory speeding up from the inside lane when you try to over take someone.

 

[RWTD_Burn]

Target fixation. The Stinger can have that effect on people.

I can't help but think this is a real thing. I had a 2006 Dodge Charger Daytona edition in the GoMango orange and I swear I had to avoid an accident every 2-3 weeks. It was a bright freak'n metallic orange boat that you couldn't miss from a mile away yet people would always swerve towards me or pull out right at or in front of me. I eventually sold it and never had that problem again until about 2 months ago. Already had 3 narrow misses in the Stinger.

 

[Ah GetFd]

Target Fixation.

You have a point there. Since owning a Stinger and unlike the previous car a Commodore SS V8 (GM Pontiac G8 in the US) that was often mistaken for a Police Highway Unmarkerd Pursuit Car people used to leave me alone then, but the Stinger seems to get Ford Mustang driver fixation and worked up just by seeing it. They know it's a fast car. They have read the reviews but still think their 5.0L V8 is going to beat it with their own superior driving skills. I don't have the time. I'd rather know it than prove it. As far as I am concerned if you own a 2 door you have half a car.....

 

[turboAWD]

Silicon Valley here. Tesla drivers are some of the worst. And it seems like HALF of them drive with high beams on at night all the time (or horribly misaligned regular lights). I swear, people here have no idea their cars have two different lighting options for driving at night, and only one is appropriate for driving in a busy urban area..

I grew up in Canada, where flashing your lights at someone was a pretty universal "something is off about your lights" gesture and most people figured it out. Here, like NO RESPONSE. None.

 

[Ah GetFd]

Silicon Valley here. Tesla drivers are some of the worst. And it seems like HALF of them drive with high beams on at night all the time (or horribly misaligned regular lights). I swear, people here have no idea their cars have two different lighting options for driving at night, and only one is appropriate for driving in a busy urban area..

I grew up in Canada, where flashing your lights at someone was a pretty universal "something is off about your lights" gesture and most people figured it out. Here, like NO RESPONSE. None.

Most new cars now have LED lights and they are set to auto hi beam then detect vehicles ahead to switch to lo in urban areas.

The new Mazda CX3 I bought this year does exactly that

 

[turboAWD]

Most new cars now have LED lights and they are set to auto hi beam then detect vehicles ahead to switch to lo in urban areas.

The new Mazda CX3 I bought this year does exactly that

My Stinger does that. This is not that. Not when on a 6-lane Blvd with bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[Ah GetFd]

The LED lights are never on hi beam in my Stinger. I think I would have to be chasing Mooses in the wilderness of Canada like the main street of Vancouver before they switched to high beam.

 

[LordKOTL]

Silicon Valley here. Tesla drivers are some of the worst. And it seems like HALF of them drive with high beams on at night all the time (or horribly misaligned regular lights). I swear, people here have no idea their cars have two different lighting options for driving at night, and only one is appropriate for driving in a busy urban area..

I grew up in Canada, where flashing your lights at someone was a pretty universal "something is off about your lights" gesture and most people figured it out. Here, like NO RESPONSE. None.

Up until recently in the PacNW it was the Prius drivers.

It's like they think that carbon credits offset moving violations.

 

[D.J.]

It's like they think that carbon credits offset moving violations.

Never heard that before, but I'm using that

 

[JSolo]

I just don't understand some drivers. First vehicle in an unprotected left turn lane. Sitting BEHIND!!!!! the white line. Of course the way she positioned (to the right) her vehicle it's difficult to see if there's oncoming traffic given there's cars turning left from the oncoming direction as well.

The new driver sticker on the back is no excuse for such stupidity. What do they teach in driver's ed these days. I was taught to proceed part way into the intersection, as far left as possible (but such that oncoming traffic could still pass) so visibility of coming traffic (or lack of it) was unobstructed.

I laid on the horn and she finally moved a bit.

 

[bfglitch]

I just don't understand some drivers. First vehicle in an unprotected left turn lane. Sitting BEHIND!!!!! the white line. Of course the way she positioned (to the right) her vehicle it's difficult to see if there's oncoming traffic given there's cars turning left from the oncoming direction as well.

The new driver sticker on the back is no excuse for such stupidity. What do they teach in driver's ed these days. I was taught to proceed part way into the intersection, as far left as possible (but such that oncoming traffic could still pass) so visibility of coming traffic (or lack of it) was unobstructed.

I laid on the horn and she finally moved a bit.

Interesting. It's been a loooooooong time but if I recall during drivers ed, I was taught to stay behind the white line (even while the light was green) waiting for oncoming traffic to clear and if it looks like it'll clear before the light changes, to then proceed into the intersection and make the turn when clear. Now I don't practice that. I usually proceed a bit beyond depending on the intersection. We have a few really screwy ones. One in particular where the white line is WAY behind the end of the cement median. Can't count how many times people stopped well after the white line and never triggered the light. Also there's a few where the white line is way back due to being on a bus route and the busses would never be able to make the left turn (going from your right, turning left across you to go the opposite direction), so if you're stuck past the white line after the light changes you can either A) get hit by a bus or B) really screw up traffic patterns because the bus can't make the turn. And by then you probably can't back up either because of people who are on your ass behind you.

As for staying as far left as possible in a left turn lane...yeah that should be common sense, but I have no clue how many times I've seen people in the left turn lane hug the right line making it damn near impossible to see oncoming cars. Annoying as hell!

 

[Snicklefritz]

I was taught to proceed part way into the intersection

I wait until the cross-traffic lanes have occupants in them, because the risk of someone barging through their and red light and T-boning you is too great anymore.

Last night I was chauffer to my wife delivering flowers to people on our church's visit list. It was late rush hour. I swore, literally, and also "off" driving during rush hour. Why risk a four-fivefold increased chance of getting tagged? That's how the odds go up when times-that-many-more drivers are about. What set me off were the one-armed zombies naval gazing, i.e., using their phones. One gal to our right was letting half a dozen and more car lengths develop in front of her so that she could have enough reaction time to slow or stop. I honked and her head snapped up, then I moved into the space in front of her. And that was when I saw traffic in front dividing left and right around a middle/turn lane accident of three vehicles and a small flatbed trailer with its load of whatever it is all over the road. A guy was on his cell phone where he sat on the road with is legs spread-eagle and his back propped against one of the broken cars. Near ballistic, I was, and writing about it now brings most of that anger back. Hopefully this account will help banish the memory and restore inner peace.

 

[JSolo]

^^Fair point. Around here, the turn lanes usually have the green first after a light change - good idea to look left/right/left before going if first in line. A handful of intersections in a few counties have it backwards - through traffic gets green first, then turn lanes. There after, one can turn left (assuming no no turn on left sign/protected turn) when oncoming traffic clears.

In this case, through traffic was already moving. Perhaps she was waiting for the light to cycle until the next left turn green arrow appeared¿? Going around her on the right was not a good idea.

Interesting.... I looked through the IL rules of road handbook, but didn't find any references to this particular scenario.
The video below appears to support my stance.

-------------
Who has the right of way if you are about to make that unprotected left turn after the light has just turned red, and someone else coming from the other direction is making a right turn, while the light has just turned red for them? Who has the right of way?

in Florida, as long as you pass, the intersection hold line when the light is green or yellow, you have the right of way, even when the light turns red as long as you were in the intersection
-------------

The above was asked by one of the commenters. I'd say assuming you're already in the intersection at least part way, you left the oncoming car clear, then complete the left turn. It'd be pretty stupid to turn left front of them and get tboned.

 

[Ah GetFd]

(even while the light was green) waiting for oncoming traffic to clear

Interesting. It's been a loooooooong time but if I recall during drivers ed, I was taught to stay behind the white line (even while the light was green) waiting for oncoming traffic to clear and if it looks like it'll clear before the light changes, to then proceed into the intersection and make the turn when clear. Now I don't practice that. I usually proceed a bit beyond depending on the intersection. We have a few really screwy ones. One in particular where the white line is WAY behind the end of the cement median. Can't count how many times people stopped well after the white line and never triggered the light. Also there's a few where the white line is way back due to being on a bus route and the busses would never be able to make the left turn (going from your right, turning left across you to go the opposite direction), so if you're stuck past the white line after the light changes you can either A) get hit by a bus or B) really screw up traffic patterns because the bus can't make the turn. And by then you probably can't back up either because of people who are on your ass behind you.

As for staying as far left as possible in a left turn lane...yeah that should be common sense, but I have no clue how many times I've seen people in the left turn lane hug the right line making it damn near impossible to see oncoming cars. Annoying as hell!

Yeah well. Uhm NO. The world over you don't sit behind the white line because technically you can sit there forever. This talks about unprotected intersections where no traffic lights exist.....but what if they do and you are in the habit of sitting behind white lines?? If you sit behind a white line and wait, then the lights turn yellow, you are legally required to STOP. Yellow means Stop if you can. You can. So you don't turn. So the logical thing to do is enter the intersection past the white line and wait. When it is safe, or safe and the light turns yellow, complete your turn by clearing the intersection. I agree with that video except for ONE thing. In that driver animation that vehicle should pull further into the intersection and wait. Notice when they complete the turn they are technically still driving to the point where they should already be waiting ready to turn. It also allows a second vehicle following to turn.....and the third reason why you should always cross the white line and enter the intersection is red light cameras. Loops in the road exist past the white line to detect if you cross the white line when the light turns red. If you are past the white line already even if the light turns red you should not activate the loop to take a photo.

 

[JSolo]

^^Around here, assuming no red light camera, folks often turn on red, even when they're the 3rd/4th vehicle in line. No one gives a crap.

In chicago proper, because of all the red light/speed cameras, folks have been trained to nail the brakes if the light just turns yellow. I went through a questionable yellow few weeks ago. According to my dash cam I was already in the intersection when it turned red.

Upon further review of the vehicle code, that intersection is improperly marked. That is, any intersection enforcing the red light camera has to indicate such is the case with signage.

Rte. 83/Grove/Sherwood · Addison Township, IL

Transport interchange

maps.app.goo.gl

This is the intersection heading north. I was heading south.



Heading south.


No red light camera signs either on the nearest pole or the one across the street.

Light turns red on the next frame (1/30th sec) after this frame. Im pretty sure part of the car was in the intersection already .

 

[bfglitch]

^^Around here, assuming no red light camera

This exactly. Many of our traffic lights have cameras and the ones that don't will be getting them soon. I hate them. I have been nailed a couple of times because I did exactly what folks here are saying to do, to move beyond the white line to wait, the light started changing, the oncoming traffic of course ran through the yellow and I'm now stuck in the middle of the intersection at a red with people directly behind me. My only option is to turn left on red and get a ticket from a traffic camera.

 

[Volfy]

Here in Houston, red light cams got voted out of existence many years ago. Some surrounding suburb cities kept them for a little while longer after that. I got a notice in the mail from one of them and promptly threw it in the trash. Despite the ominous language on the notice warning of dire consequences for no compliance, I've yet to suffer any since.

Unlike toll fees, traffic citations are given for driver behaviors, so without positive identification of driver, they don't have much of a legal standing. Citizens can give implicit consent for self enforcement with these red light cams. But if they voice their dissent with an explicit vote, that's it. To be fair, I do see far less rampant red light running when the RLC's were in effect here, so they aren't totally without merit. However, once the revenue streams start flowing, companies that operate them will get greedy and will inevitably find ways to abuse the system. The notice I got was of me making a perfectly legal right turn on red. **** if they think I'm gonna pay that.

 

[JSolo]

This exactly. Many of our traffic lights have cameras and the ones that don't will be getting them soon. I hate them. I have been nailed a couple of times because I did exactly what folks here are saying to do, to move beyond the white line to wait, the light started changing, the oncoming traffic of course ran through the yellow and I'm now stuck in the middle of the intersection at a red with people directly behind me. My only option is to turn left on red and get a ticket from a traffic camera.

Is there something different in VA vehicle code vs other states? That is, if already in the intersection you're permitted to complete your turn even on red after all opposing traffic has passed.

I can't cite the exact IL code but according to the il rules of road handbook - https://www.ilsos.gov/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_a112.pdf , page 26.

When making a left-hand turn into oncoming traffic. If you enter an intersection while
the light is green, you may finish the turn even though the light turns red.

Many of us (self included), interpret this as applying to entering the intersection on yellow as well. As far as how it related to red light cameras, good question. If intersection entered while light is still green, then the above applies, but if entered when light turns yellow, I would expect above to apply as well. After all, it snaps the pic if vehicle goes through a red not yellow.

https://idot.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/idot/documents/transportation-system/memos---letters/safety/11132013_rr_safety_2-13.pdf

page 3

RLR Camera Systems shall differentiate between vehicles running a red light
and those vehicles stopping slightly beyond the stop bar or those vehicles,
after stopping, making a legal turn against a red indication.

My take away is it's probably NOT a good idea to turn left on a yellow for red light camera intersection unless turn can be completed before light turns red. But if already stopped and waiting IN the intersection then you're ok.

It's just another reason I tend to stay out of the city altogether and do all the shopping in the suburbs where such nonsense is mostly nonexistent (no speed cams in the burbs).

 

[bfglitch]

Is there something different in VA vehicle code vs other states? That is, if already in the intersection you're permitted to complete your turn even on red after all opposing traffic has passed.

Honestly if I recall that is technically the idea is that you're "permitted to complete your turn even on red" because otherwise you're blocking the intersection. But I believe the red light cameras can't/don't make that distinction and just get you for "running a red light". Honestly you probably can fight it and get it reversed but it's so much of a pain in the ass it's almost worth just paying the $10 or whatever it is. Especially since they can't/don't verify the driver so you don't get any points on your license and it doesn't actually go on your record. I believe the fine/charge is tied to the car so it could make things difficult when it comes time to renew the plate/tags/registration.

Our traffic cameras are garbage. There's even one not too far from where I live that winds up going off even when people aren't running the light. It's a freaking mess. It has stopped (in some regards) right light running and accidents due to this, but has increased rear endings from people slamming on the brakes in fear of getting a ticket from the traffic camera.

 

[Volfy]

I remember there was much discussion here back when RLC were the hot topic in town. The prevailing rule (at least for here) is that an infraction can triggered ONLY upon entering the intersection AFTER red light has turned on. A vehicle that has already crossed into the intersection BEFORE light turns red - however it got there - is not subject to RLC citation. Whether the vehicle crossed the line a fraction of a second prior to red light turning on, or waiting for traffic to exit the intersection... doesn't matter.

Otherwise, it would a be a hot mess trying to decipher who deserves a citation, and who doesn't.