GT AWD 19 inch staggered... winter rims/tires?

[MerlintheMad]

UHPAS

I've already decided that since I am going to change to winters and then back again, to summers, AS of any kind are not what I am after. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Probably what I will do is go back into Costco's tire department in a couple of months and order what they have available for the staggered rims sizes we have. The guy on the desk looked up what was in their inventory and the Michelins show "DISCONTINUED", but the Michelin Alpines were available. They are pricey, iirc c. $319 (or was it $349?). Anyway! If Alpine Michelins are what fits, and they are not that much more than Bridgestones, I will go that route. This will come up again several months from now. And no doubt I will post to "What I did to my Stinger Today" thread.

 

[Helo58]

Michelin, among others, does not recommend the use of a "performance summer" tire in winter weather (below 40F average). Some Pirellis and Michelins have been known to crack or split at temps between 20-30 degree Fahrenheit. If you choose to run the PS4S all year long, be aware that stopping, accelerating, and cornering abilities will all be adversely affected in cold weather near these temperatures. The consensus is driving the car only on days where temps are above this range and garaging it above this range when not driving. Damage to the tires can occur with or without driving on them below 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

This can all be avoided with a set of dedicated winter or all-season tires.

 

[BlaydeX15]

In addition to damaging the tire, read what Edmunds had to say about Summer tire performance in snow:

It takes 11.7 seconds for our Civic Si to accelerate to 40 mph on snow tires, and 14.5 seconds to get there on all-season rubber — nearly 3 seconds and 24 percent slower. As for the summer tires, well, they require, ahem, 41.7 seconds as they struggle to 40 mph. That's no typo; it takes a half-minute longer — 257 percent more time — for the summer tires to reach this modest speed.

What about our traditional 0-60-mph test? Well, snow tires get to 60 mph in 19.1 seconds, while the all-season treads arrive in 22.9 seconds, nearly 4 seconds later. Forget the summer tires, however. The available 3,650 feet of snow — seven-tenths of a mile — isn't enough. We figure 67 seconds and 3,100 feet are needed to get there, and then there's the small matter of needing to stop again.

And that brings us to our next test: full stops with ABS engaged. Here again the snow tires dominate, stopping from 40 mph in 156 feet, some 28 feet shorter than the all-season tires' 184-foot performance. Meanwhile, our summer tires skate to an ultimate distance of 351 feet, the ABS actuator rattling for all it's worth the whole way.

Increase the starting speed to 60 mph and these distances more than double. It takes 362 feet for the snow tires to stop and 421 feet for the all-season donuts. The summer tires sit this one out because they can't manage to get themselves to 60 mph in the first place. (We do the math instead and come up with an estimate north of 800 feet.)

As for looks, I'm planning on picking up Sport Tuning T23's for my winter set:

Matches the stock aesthetic pretty well, IMO.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Some Pirellis and Michelins have been known to crack or split at temps between 20-30 degree Fahrenheit.

This thread, Catastrophic Tire Failure 70mph, @eflyguy's post #14, should illustrate this well enough!

 

[WildBill]

Those rims look pretty good.

I just built a set of 18" winter tires, rims, and TPMS sensors on tire rack and came in at less than $1488
Dunlop Winter MAXX WM01 225/45R18 $146 ea
Sport Edition P5 18x8 rim in Anthracite $137 ea
TPMS $89 ea

I am pretty concerned with safety for my family and my vehicle and my theory on winter tires is this. With AWD I don't think you typically need the top of the line Blizzak, Artic Alpine, etc. Off brand tires such as Cooper or General do pretty damn well. If you've got a RWS Stinger then that is all null and void. Get the $$$ stuff. If you've got money to burn, have extreme conditions, or a driveway from he!!, then again, do it.

I put three sets of Cooper Weather Masters on my Subaru Legacy and we're on our second set of them on my wife's Toyota Sienna AWD van. I wouldn't keep buying them if they didn't perform great and wear really well for winter tires. In fact I got more miles out of the sets of winter tires then I ever did out of the various summers on my Legacy GT.

Tire width and sidewall depth... In general narrower tires get better traction and taller sidewalls take more abuse from pot holes before damaging the rims. Both are reasons to step down from the 19" staggered tires. Tire rack article.

The last thing that I'll say is that how long you plan on keeping the car will also help determine if a second set of rims is right for you. If you are a short timer then probably find a size of winters that will fit your existing rims. Pay the $60 each fall and spring to get the different set of tires mounted and balanced. If you're in it for the long haul you will make out changing the rims/tires over yourself in the garage. And your rims wont get beat to hell with the mounting and balancing 2x per year.

 

[westcoastGT]

Those rims look pretty good.

I just built a set of 18" winter tires, rims, and TPMS sensors on tire rack and came in at less than $1488
Dunlop Winter MAXX WM01 225/45R18 $146 ea
Sport Edition P5 18x8 rim in Anthracite $137 ea
TPMS $89 ea

I am pretty concerned with safety for my family and my vehicle and my theory on winter tires is this. With AWD I don't think you typically need the top of the line Blizzak, Artic Alpine, etc. Off brand tires such as Cooper or General do pretty damn well. If you've got a RWS Stinger then that is all null and void. Get the $$$ stuff. If you've got money to burn, have extreme conditions, or a driveway from he!!, then again, do it.

I put three sets of Cooper Weather Masters on my Subaru Legacy and we're on our second set of them on my wife's Toyota Sienna AWD van. I wouldn't keep buying them if they didn't perform great and wear really well for winter tires. In fact I got more miles out of the sets of winter tires then I ever did out of the various summers on my Legacy GT.

Tire width and sidewall depth... In general narrower tires get better traction and taller sidewalls take more abuse from pot holes before damaging the rims. Both are reasons to step down from the 19" staggered tires. Tire rack article.

The last thing that I'll say is that how long you plan on keeping the car will also help determine if a second set of rims is right for you. If you are a short timer then probably find a size of winters that will fit your existing rims. Pay the $60 each fall and spring to get the different set of tires mounted and balanced. If you're in it for the long haul you will make out changing the rims/tires over yourself in the garage. And your rims wont get beat to hell with the mounting and balancing 2x per year.

AWD is generally great in most situations but wont stop you better or steer around corners better in a no gas / braking situation . I see more AWD vehicles in the ditch than any other vehicles , most due to the wrong tires ......................ie Summer tires in Winter

 

[Helo58]

This is the best video I have seen on the topic. It is from Tirerack and shows the advantages of winter tires. A RWD car on winter tires will vastly outperform an AWD on summer times in freezing weather.

 

[WildBill]

AWD is generally great in most situations but wont stop you better or steer around corners better in a no gas / braking situation . I see more AWD vehicles in the ditch than any other vehicles , most due to the wrong tires ......................ie Summer tires in Winter

First thing I thought is this thread is about winter tires. You have been preaching about UHPAW tires which will inherently have less traction in the situation you describe. I've had several sets of UHPAW that I used as summers that I would never run in the winter (might be okay though if you put them on in November). Typically they would not stand up at all to off brand snow tires that have softer compounds, siping, wider and more aggressive tread, etc. let alone studs.

Note, On my last AWD car I had Bridgestone RE050A (OEM), Conti Extreme DWS, Pilot Sport A/S3+, and BFG G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S tires that I used as summers.

So I'm not sure what you're saying here. Of course if people think they are invincible they are going to fail. Go fast, crank the wheels, and brake, that's never a good idea. People will push the limits of physics and quickly find the limits of traction. That is an education/people problem, not an AWD problem and not a tire problem.

 

[westcoastGT]

First thing I thought is this thread is about winter tires. You have been preaching about UHPAW tires which will inherently have less traction in the situation you describe. I've had several sets of UHPAW that I used as summers that I would never run in the winter (might be okay though if you put them on in November). Typically they would not stand up at all to off brand snow tires that have softer compounds, siping, wider and more aggressive tread, etc. let alone studs.

Note, On my last AWD car I had Bridgestone RE050A (OEM), Conti Extreme DWS, Pilot Sport A/S3+, and BFG G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S tires that I used as summers.

So I'm not sure what you're saying here. Of course if people think they are invincible they are going to fail. Go fast, crank the wheels, and brake, that's never a good idea. People will push the limits of physics and quickly find the limits of traction. That is an education/people problem, not an AWD problem and not a tire problem.

Maybe post where you are located in your signature for reference , location and driving environment are critical in this discussion

 

[westcoastGT]

MY only response would be that a Stinger GT whether AWD or RWD should have HP tires whether Winter , Summer or AS , anything less is compromising performance and drivability ................off brand non performance tires might work well in deeper snow driving conservatively , but when the snow melts its like wearing gumboots vs Nike running shoes ..............IMHO

 

[WildBill]

Fair enough. I can definitely see that point of view.
It's always a happy day come spring when the summers come back out to play.

Also, I did add my location per your request. You're right. It does help with perspective.

 

[Tobstertx3]

This is the best video I have seen on the topic. It is from Tirerack and shows the advantages of winter tires. A RWD car on winter tires will vastly outperform an AWD on summer times in freezing weather.

Interesting video. Thanks!

 

[BlaydeX15]

Those rims look pretty good.

I just built a set of 18" winter tires, rims, and TPMS sensors on tire rack and came in at less than $1488
Dunlop Winter MAXX WM01 225/45R18 $146 ea
Sport Edition P5 18x8 rim in Anthracite $137 ea
TPMS $89 ea

I am pretty concerned with safety for my family and my vehicle and my theory on winter tires is this. With AWD I don't think you typically need the top of the line Blizzak, Artic Alpine, etc. Off brand tires such as Cooper or General do pretty damn well. If you've got a RWS Stinger then that is all null and void. Get the $$$ stuff. If you've got money to burn, have extreme conditions, or a driveway from he!!, then again, do it.

I put three sets of Cooper Weather Masters on my Subaru Legacy and we're on our second set of them on my wife's Toyota Sienna AWD van. I wouldn't keep buying them if they didn't perform great and wear really well for winter tires. In fact I got more miles out of the sets of winter tires then I ever did out of the various summers on my Legacy GT.

Tire width and sidewall depth... In general narrower tires get better traction and taller sidewalls take more abuse from pot holes before damaging the rims. Both are reasons to step down from the 19" staggered tires. Tire rack article.

The last thing that I'll say is that how long you plan on keeping the car will also help determine if a second set of rims is right for you. If you are a short timer then probably find a size of winters that will fit your existing rims. Pay the $60 each fall and spring to get the different set of tires mounted and balanced. If you're in it for the long haul you will make out changing the rims/tires over yourself in the garage. And your rims wont get beat to hell with the mounting and balancing 2x per year.

FYI, you can get the TPMS for way cheaper elsewhere. I'm looking at $23-26 ones on ebay right now. Part number is 52933 J5000. That alone knocks $260 off of your price.

 

[Sabz]

Discount tire has tons of options and aren’t that pricey... I just want some winter tires or cheap all seasons.. not sure why you want to spend so much for winter tires when you aren’t going to push the car anyway

 

[BlaydeX15]

Discount tire has tons of options and aren’t that pricey... I just want some winter tires or cheap all seasons.. not sure why you want to spend so much for winter tires when you aren’t going to push the car anyway

Because sometimes you're driving, and there's 4" of compacted snow on the road. Or you have a steep driveway. Or you don't want to get stuck in the 2" gutter that's turned into solid ice. Pushing the car has a totally different meaning in winter, when you have to get out and literally push the car. Lol. Last year, I had all seasons on my car and called in one day because I was stuck in my parking spot, couldn't even back out.

It's obviously location specific, but all seasons just don't match winter tires when you're dealing with anything more than cold asphalt.

As for expensive winter tires vs cheap winter tires? All 18-19" tires are expensive. If you're already paying 130-150/tire, you may as well spend an extra $20/tire to get blizzaks.

 

[Sabz]

Because sometimes you're driving, and there's 4" of compacted snow on the road. Or you have a steep driveway. Or you don't want to get stuck in the 2" gutter that's turned into solid ice. Pushing the car has a totally different meaning in winter, when you have to get out and literally push the car. Lol. Last year, I had all seasons on my car and called in one day because I was stuck in my parking spot, couldn't even back out.

It's obviously location specific, but all seasons just don't match winter tires when you're dealing with anything more than cold asphalt.

As for expensive winter tires vs cheap winter tires? All 18-19" tires are expensive. If you're already paying 130-150/tire, you may as well spend an extra $20/tire to get blizzaks.

150 is totally fine and expect to pay that but someone said 1800 for a set of tires wtf... I live in Minnesota where we have nasty winters and I’ve never had an awd car until now so with some decent all seasons I will have no issue...

 

[Coltt]

150 is totally fine and expect to pay that but someone said 1800 for a set of tires wtf... I live in Minnesota where we have nasty winters and I’ve never had an awd car until now so with some decent all seasons I will have no issue...

That price is Canadian & only if you do winter tires in the stock staggered size: 225/40R19 front and 255/35R19 rear because your only option is pirelli sottozeros. if you drop down to 18's you can go 18x8's all around at 235/45 significantly less + the cost of rims

 

[G-790497]

@stinger123 There should be no reason that you can't go from staggered 19s to a square 18" setup for winter.
I would go with the stock 18" tire size of 225-45 18. The outside diameter of the tires is almost exactly the same so you shouldn't have any speedo error.

@Bobr I don't know why you'd want a wide 255 rear tire in the winter. It would get worse traction in snow than a 225. For snow you want the bite of a narrow tire, not a snow shoe. I don't know that anyone has upsized the tire diameter by an inch like you are asking. You could have rubbing issues. I'd look into a second set of 18" rims.

I have an AWD GT2 with the 18" square setup. My plan is to put a set of 225-45R18 Cooper Weather Masters on my stock rims for winter and then get larger/wider rims and tires for summers.

Why would you have 18" on a 19" car?