Flex Fuel?

[Tiberius183]

Due to rising gas prices, I'm considering converting to flex fuel. Does this kit have everything I need to do that? Fuel-It! FLEX FUEL KIT for KIA/GENESIS 3.3L

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Due to rising gas prices, I'm considering converting to flex fuel. Does this kit have everything I need to do that? Fuel-It! FLEX FUEL KIT for KIA/GENESIS 3.3L

NO, you cannot run completely on E85, not in this car. this kit is just a sensor that tells you your Ethanol mixture at any given moment. You WILL ruin your stingers motor pretty quickly if you only fill up with e85.

 

[Tiberius183]

NO, you cannot run completely on E85, not in this car. this kit is just a sensor that tells you your Ethanol mixture at any given moment. You WILL ruin your stingers motor pretty quickly if you only fill up with e85.

Good thing I asked. Thx!

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Good thing I asked. Thx!

Im glad you did too. If you want to save some money, you can run 87 in your car fine, it just wont make as much power and your fuel mileage may go down a bit. just dont stomp on it too much.

 

[Tiberius183]

NO, you cannot run completely on E85, not in this car. this kit is just a sensor that tells you your Ethanol mixture at any given moment. You WILL ruin your stingers motor pretty quickly if you only fill up with e85.

Out of curiosity though, does a full conversion kit exist?

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Out of curiosity though, does a full conversion kit exist?

Nope

 

[stoopid]

Im glad you did too. If you want to save some money, you can run 87 in your car fine, it just wont make as much power and your fuel mileage may go down a bit. just dont stomp on it too much.

This is not a cut/dry true statement. In similar vehicles, premium definitely generates more power. Part of the way engines that 'premium is recommended' run lower octane gas is by dialing back the timing (and likely some other ratios), which makes running lower octane 'safer' for the engine than if the engine didn't sense and calibrate accordingly. Running 87 won't cripple the vehicle, but it won't be running factory spec power, either.

This topic has been discussed on this forum and the thousand other car forums across the internet. I won't argue the point here as its been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere, simply pointing the OP to answer/research that for themselves.

 

[G-581281]

NO, you cannot run completely on E85, not in this car. this kit is just a sensor that tells you your Ethanol mixture at any given moment. You WILL ruin your stingers motor pretty quickly if you only fill up with e85.

Not entirely true u can run e85 only if u have the jb4 tuner and the special 3 wire plug for the ethanol sensor. 5v wire ground wire and signal wire to plug to the ecu of the jb4 this will adjust fuel and timing based on ethanol content then u will also need the upgraded hpfp from ssr performance or bms that provides 80% more flow than stock so u don't drop in rail pressure. The only limiting factor is the injectors them self just waiting on a company to make higher flowing injectors than factory.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Not entirely true u can run e85 only if u have the jb4 tuner and the special 3 wire plug for the ethanol sensor. 5v wire ground wire and signal wire to plug to the ecu of the jb4 this will adjust fuel and timing based on ethanol content then u will also need the upgraded hpfp from ssr performance or bms that provides 80% more flow than stock so u don't drop in rail pressure. The only limiting factor is the injectors them self just waiting on a company to make higher flowing injectors than factory.

While your response was to something that is over a year old at this point, what you said is also not true. You can run up to an E30ish mix in the car completely stock with no issues, however it will serve no benefit. Since I have posted this, multiple tuners have a full E85 tune for the stinger, though their is basically 0 benifit over E60-70ish performance wise. As for the Upgraded fuel pumps, it seems to be that they are a complete waste of money currently, as from the people who have actually installed them, they dont do much to help the cars fueling struggles, and CPI/wmi are the most common best ways to get more fueling into the car as of right now.

 

[AWDGT2]

My 2 cents....
His goal is to save money, but it's a double edge sword. There are several tunes available that will run E50-E60 safely. Lap, BMS BEF, Sxth, ect. So, 8 gal. of E-85 to 6 gal. of 87 equals 95.5 Octane and E53 (roughly). Taking two of the cheapest gas options to get 95 Octane fuel is epic. The problem is buying the tune, and or the EK1 to get that tune. How much gas does he need to buy to make up for the cost of the EK and tune???????
Caveat, do NOT try and run E50, or any mix over E30 without that tune, you will run lean, you will get CEL's and your car could get hurt.

 

[turboAWD]

I think I more or less understand the general state of E85 (much like AWDGT2 wrote). SOME people are able to run E85 just with a Lap3 tune and CPI, IIRC - and a few claimed to be able to do it WITHOUT CPI?

Would larger injectors solve all the fueling issues? Or would the pumps still run out of capacity?

 

[AWDGT2]

Regardless of CPI or not, The factory tune has hard coded fueling maps without a lot of wiggle room. Meaning... The tables for the perfect AFR or (Lambda = 1) will allow some flexibility with Ethanol. Right now pump gas is 15%, but you can buy Non Ethanol fuel at 0%. You can also go a bit higher like 30% and the ECU will still be happy. If and only if you can find a tuner to drastically change those maps to keep up with the High Ethanol, you then run into the issues with the HPFP not keeping up. The VERY few cars that have run that high are unicorns IMHO. I've yet to see a log of someone running full E85 during a hard pull. I'm sure someone has one, I'm just saying I haven't seen one yet. I can also attest to running that high of E in my car, it will idle and daily but my logs tell me it would probably crash above the E60 mark.
Stay tuned to BMS and Terry, he is really close to having more of his HPFP's in stock, and he's working very hard on his back end flash to work safely with full E. At that high of a level, it takes more than just a fuel map. You have to start tinkering with ignition timing, Dwell time, and several other parameters in the ECU to run it that way it should.

 

[turboAWD]

Thanks. That summarizes things very nicely. I basically had read about all of the limitations, although not so nicely in one place.

My question was essentially: assuming we could get bigger injectors, would the right BEF plus injectors be enough? Or would you still need a fuel pump, even after BEF plus injectors?

 

[AWDGT2]

Thanks. That summarizes things very nicely. I basically had read about all of the limitations, although not so nicely in one place.

My question was essentially: assuming we could get bigger injectors, would the right BEF plus injectors be enough? Or would you still need a fuel pump, even after BEF plus injectors?

Great question and I won't pull your leg with a BS answer. I believe Terry is leaning on just a HPFP solution because it's two bolts and it's done. Because these are GDI, swapping injectors is not an easy task because the whole top end of the engine needs to be removed and I think he's avoiding that. These are just indicators to me that it can be done without an injector swap.

 

[turboAWD]

Ah, makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Dontiee]

Im glad you did too. If you want to save some money, you can run 87 in your car fine, it just wont make as much power and your fuel mileage may go down a bit. just dont stomp on it too much.

why you telling him he can run 87 in his 3.3l turboed stinger … don’t put nothing below 93 in .. and yes I run e85 without a cpi kit and my cars fine . Your car won’t run right if you going to put 87 in . Cars not made for that . Read the manual . It says in there what’s the lowest octane you can use ….

 

[Dontiee]

NO, you cannot run completely on E85, not in this car. this kit is just a sensor that tells you your Ethanol mixture at any given moment. You WILL ruin your stingers motor pretty quickly if you only fill up with e85.

lol cpi kit is not just a sensor bud … maybe you should read up on the cpi kit before you comment to someone acting like you know …

 

[Thomby]

why you telling him he can run 87 in his 3.3l turboed stinger … don’t put nothing below 93 in

I believe the Stinger's manual says you can run 87, and as others have mentioned, for most modern turbo cars it means dialing back timing and costing yourself a bit of power. Probably hard for the California guys (and many Canadians/Europeans) not to use anything below 93 when their premium is 91.

I run e85 without a cpi kit and my cars fine

BMS and other tuners set the E30 guideline as what most cars can handle before the HPFP crashes. So for some people it's E40, just like for other cars it might be E50 etc. Doesn't mean you can't run E85 at low throttle/revs, or stock boost. But at ~20psi (~1.5x stock) and straight ethanol (~1.3x less energy), peak flow is approaching 2x stock.

One other thing: running E85 to save money works where E85 is cheap enough to overcome its ~30% energy deficit. This typically means the Midwest (often 35-40% cheaper) but East & West coasts are often just 15-25% cheaper. But if you run 93 all the time, displacing some of that with E85 may put you ahead.

A few examples I grabbed back when gas was climbing. The 15-17% discounts vs. regular mean you'd always come out behind, while the 30-33% discount to premium mean you'd just overcome the decreased mileage:

 

[BIG-D]

My 2 cents....
His goal is to save money, but it's a double edge sword. There are several tunes available that will run E50-E60 safely. Lap, BMS BEF, Sxth, ect. So, 8 gal. of E-85 to 6 gal. of 87 equals 95.5 Octane and E53 (roughly). Taking two of the cheapest gas options to get 95 Octane fuel is epic. The problem is buying the tune, and or the EK1 to get that tune. How much gas does he need to buy to make up for the cost of the EK and tune???????
Caveat, do NOT try and run E50, or any mix over E30 without that tune, you will run lean, you will get CEL's and your car could get hurt.

Just to clarify my 23 model threw up an engine lean code which i promptly rectified by pumping more 98 into the tank no check engine light however?
These cars are very clever...