Feature disparity (from Interesting Discoveries Thread)

[Marc Collins]

So, overall I am happy with the car and the price/value equation, but am copying my post from another thread here. Why? Because I really thought KIA had lept out of the box with this car and was suddenly in tune with buyers and enthusiasts of this class of car. Sorry, a few engineers have put together a great vehicle, but the rest of the operation is lagging far behind. I have been sad to discover a disturbing trend with every single niggle or complaint I have about the car:

In every instance I care about so far, the problem or issue has actually already been resolved and it is simply an issue of morons in marketing distributing equipment and fixes differentially across markets.

• Fake sounds--OFF option already available in sister car, the Genesis G70.
• Map updates--already free in some countries.
• Updates available to UVO separate from map updates--KIA too lazy to implement this when they can charge money for map updates that also update UVO.
• Use camera instead of maps to read speed signs--KIA already does this in other vehicles in some countries.
• No txt messages read or displayed via Bluetooth--KIA already has this on their cheapest vehicles (as does every other company).
• No bi-modal exhaust OPTION that is desperately needed--already available in Australia and a different system already developed in Europe and was made available to journalists in the COTY contest.
• No limited slip differential option on several models that should have it as an option or standard--already standard on AWD G70 and some RWD Stinger models already, so what is the explanation for not offering it when people are willing to pay extra to get it?
• Manual shift issues that many have complained about--already fixed and was made available on cars supplied to journalists in the European COTY contest.
• Ugly exposed cup holders--already have a better console with cup holder covers, but only available in certain markets.

And I am fortunate to be in Canada, but if I was missing all the other things that are not available in USA (full app featues like remote start, wireless charging, rear heated seats, nicer headliner material, 360 camera, cargo net for trunk, etc.), I would be furious enough to not buy this car.

NONE of these things makes any sense to include or not include in various markets--most don't even cost any money, but are just one method or option versus another. Completely incompetent and counter-productive "product planning" decisions made by people who have too much time on their hands and don't drive sophisticated vehicles.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Hmm! That turned into quite a rant, Marc. It's a personality thing. None of the things that you object to reached my aesthetics at the cellular level. I guess I am not a sports car, gran turismo connoisseur. We all get spoiled/jaded by our previous experiences. This is spanking new territory for me and my Stinger is my favorite object of interest these days. I read before buying that the interior materials, craftsmanship, and the car's over all quality are inferior to the Audi and BMW and Merc, but considering the huge price difference, not that inferior. They are better cars, but not that much better. This is a well planned foray by Kia. It can only get better with improvements. I'd suggest sharing your list with them.

 

[Marc Collins]

Hmm! That turned into quite a rant, Marc. It's a personality thing. None of the things that you object to reached my aesthetics at the cellular level. I guess I am not a sports car, gran turismo connoisseur. We all get spoiled/jaded by our previous experiences. This is spanking new territory for me and my Stinger is my favorite object of interest these days. I read before buying that the interior materials, craftsmanship, and the car's over all quality are inferior to the Audi and BMW and Merc, but considering the huge price difference, not that inferior. They are better cars, but not that much better. This is a well planned foray by Kia. It can only get better with improvements. I'd suggest sharing your list with them.

I have no issues with the slightly lesser quality materials for less price. Caveat emptor. It's the dumb decisions that if resolved could make the car even better and more appealing than it already is. Those are inexcusable in a wired world where customers can easily find out who gets what in other markets and compare Stinger to Rio or Corolla to discover missing cost-free items like the txt over Bluetooth, assuming they don't already have direct experience of these things which many of us do. My wife's Imprezza at half the price addresses several of the items in my list. Technology is already in the KIA (meaning we have already paid for it) n just bad implementation.

 

[4wheelpilot]

I have no issues with the slightly lesser quality materials for less price. Caveat emptor. It's the dumb decisions that if resolved could make the car even better and more appealing than it already is. Those are inexcusable in a wired world where customers can easily find out who gets what in other markets and compare Stinger to Rio or Corolla to discover missing cost-free items like the txt over Bluetooth, assuming they don't already have direct experience of these things which many of us do. My wife's Imprezza at half the price addresses several of the items in my list. Technology is already in the KIA (meaning we have already paid for it) n just bad implementation.

It's like Kia wanted to hold the Stinger back a bit.
But to what end?
It is a unique fastback that does not compete directly with any other Hyundai/Kia/Genesis product.
All the available features mentioned above would have elevated the Kia brand even more to go up against the Audi A5/S5/A7/S7.
BTW, I came out of an Audi S4...not only are the materials a good notch below but the switch gear are two notches below in quality and feel.
The added features would have compensated to close the gap nicely.

 

[Kazz]

Newer models will have a lot of these features, I'm certain.

 

[Rufus]

They can't be that dense not to recognize the disparity. My guess is they wanted to introduce it at a very specific price point to start, and add back in those features as they raise the price now that the car itself has been well reviewed for its dynamics.

I believe that KIA wants to be seen as more aspirational a brand. Convincing pundits of their bona fides after lowballing the first year prices would seem to be part of a larger game plan to then start trying to erase their past "value=cheap" selling point by then elevating their prices a bit more, and justifying it by saying they're adding all those things back in.

Just my 2 cents, but Mercedes Benz wouldn't be nearly as aspirational a brand if their C class started at Camry prices, and I think KIA is trying to leverage an upmarket move by first introducing great products and then raising prices.

 

[Marc Collins]

Newer models will have a lot of these features, I'm certain.

You guys seem to be missing the point that these features all already exist. We just can't get all or some of them that we want depending on which market we live in.

 

[4wheelpilot]

I've been following the auto industry for 30 years and IMHO until Hyundai (Corporate-HC) and Kia can clearly differentiate themselves from each other, Kia will be perceived as the lesser company (because of it's history and public perception).
For example, were both the Kia K900 and the Hyundai Equus really necessary? What do the sales numbers tell us?

If HC made the decision to design, price and market Hyundai as the rock-solid, high content mainstream brand and Kia as the more youth oriented and spirited sport brand, then I believe they would have more overall success.
Except for the unique Stinger, there's just too much overlap and redundancy of the two brands.
To illustrate the point, Hyundai made a wise decision to create a stand alone luxury brand in Genesis.
Having three distinct brands would provide the diversity of product and the nationwide footprint of combined dealership numbers to maximize growth.
And in the eyes of auto buyers, the common denominator of the exceptional warranty would unify the three (distinct) brands.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[4wheelpilot]

You guys seem to be missing the point that these features all already exist. We just can't get all or some of them that we want depending on which market we live in.

And to this point, as technology is always evolving anyway, include the best of your available technology in what you want to represent the fresh, unique and flagship car specifically designed and marketed to elevate the brand.
There will always be new tech for Kia to add to future models rather than hold back current tech.

 

[ScottM]

As someone said earlier, they held these babies back a little bit. Yes, you can get some stuff in some markets and not some in other markets. That's the idea, see what sells and where. I wouldn't expect that with this first generation they'd ship the exact same car, with all the possible KIA goodies involved to all locations. That's just setting themselves up for future failure and no room for growth or limiting themselves to a certain amount of failure in a given area. It's the same idea with any new product offering in an existing market. Give it enough goodies (bells/whistles) to entice someone to buy it (and make it competitive)...with a comparable price. All this, while knowing before the first one is sold what goodies will be added for the next gen (should the initial bells and whistles vehicle sell solidly). The only thing that is not know for sure, is what will sell where.

 

[Marc Collins]

As someone said earlier, they held these babies back a little bit. Yes, you can get some stuff in some markets and not some in other markets. That's the idea, see what sells and where. I wouldn't expect that with this first generation they'd ship the exact same car, with all the possible KIA goodies involved to all locations. That's just setting themselves up for future failure and no room for growth or limiting themselves to a certain amount of failure in a given area. It's the same idea with any new product offering in an existing market. Give it enough goodies (bells/whistles) to entice someone to buy it (and make it competitive)...with a comparable price. All this, while knowing before the first one is sold what goodies will be added for the next gen (should the initial bells and whistles vehicle sell solidly). The only thing that is not know for sure, is what will sell where.

This assumes someone can connect which tech is available in which places to sales versus what sales would have been had other tech been available. Theoretical only and close to impossible to achieve.

 

[ScottM]

This assumes someone can connect which tech is available in which places to sales versus what sales would have been had other tech been available. Theoretical only and close to impossible to achieve.

I'm sure they got some stats guys in the barn. I'm of course not one of those, but it's all a numbers game and they usually win...even when they lose.

I'll admit, I wish I had a 360 camera... but we know that'll be part of the next gen. Maybe that's the idea, get me to buy a car that I want to keep for 7-8 years...but then leave something out that others have across the world and thus I only keep my car for 4-5 years because I'm impatient and bamm... more money for them! They always win!!

 

[Marc Collins]

I'm sure they got some stats guys in the barn. I'm of course not one of those, but it's all a numbers game and they usually win...even when they lose.

I'll admit, I wish I had a 360 camera... but we know that'll be part of the next gen. Maybe that's the idea, get me to buy a car that I want to keep for 7-8 years...but then leave something out that others have across the world and thus I only keep my car for 4-5 years because I'm impatient and bamm... more money for them! They always win!!

I still don't get what you or others are talking about--next gen? The 360 camera (and every other thing in my list) is already in this gen--I have it. KIA just decided that as an American you didn't deserve to have access to it, for free or as a paid option.

 

[Rufus]

I'm sure they got some stats guys in the barn. I'm of course not one of those, but it's all a numbers game and they usually win...even when they lose.

I'll admit, I wish I had a 360 camera... but we know that'll be part of the next gen. Maybe that's the idea, get me to buy a car that I want to keep for 7-8 years...but then leave something out that others have across the world and thus I only keep my car for 4-5 years because I'm impatient and bamm... more money for them! They always win!!

Very salient point made!

 

[ScottM]

I still don't get what you or others are talking about--next gen? The 360 camera (and every other thing in my list) is already in this gen--I have it. KIA just decided that as an American you didn't deserve to have access to it, for free or as a paid option.

Exactly! It's in the Canadian Gen, but not the American Gen. Just like the Korean Gen has stuff we both want, but don't have access too (sort of).

What I'm getting at is that the "next gen" will have more world wide options based upon what is selling now. Why did America not get the 360 camera? Was it an oversight (semi-pun)? Was it that they ran out of them? Was it that they didn't feel that we as American's needed to see 360? Not really, just the idea of seeing what works. Does it make sense to me...not necessarily. BUT, I'll bet you a peso/rupe/dollar/Euro that these options and much more will be available later and at a higher cost in the next Gen to us US'ins. Ahhhh, see what they did there? They won, they raised their prices by $5,000-$6,000+ (US dollars) for something that was already available to you in Canadia. AND, they'll add hp/TQ and maybe a meaner horn sound and presto... I've just traded my car back in within 4-5 years. Simple really.

 

[Marc Collins]

Exactly! It's in the Canadian Gen, but not the American Gen. Just like the Korean Gen has stuff we both want, but don't have access too (sort of).

What I'm getting at is that the "next gen" will have more world wide options based upon what is selling now. Why did America not get the 360 camera? Was it an oversight (semi-pun)? Was it that they ran out of them? Was it that they didn't feel that we as American's needed to see 360? Not really, just the idea of seeing what works. Does it make sense to me...not necessarily. BUT, I'll bet you a peso/rupe/dollar/Euro that these options and much more will be available later and at a higher cost in the next Gen to us US'ins. Ahhhh, see what they did there? They won, they raised their prices by $5,000-$6,000+ (US dollars) for something that was already available to you in Canadia. AND, they'll add hp/TQ and maybe a meaner horn sound and presto... I've just traded my car back in within 4-5 years. Simple really.

I'm glad you have faith that the illogical and senseless choices made about regional equipment offerings are all part of some master plan. I do not

 

[ScottM]

@Marc Collins, yup... it's all one big world plan of domination by KIA, have faith my friend.

 

[eljay]

Remember those questionnaires some of us answered? I'm guessing those have at least a little to do with what features each region ended up with. To use one feature as an example, I (and many of you) showed a preference for the 360º cam in the questionnaire, and even hounded them about it through the customer service line right up until release, but I do remember that some people here said that they didn't understand why anyone would need it. Maybe in surveys, that view dominated, or at least was strong enough that they felt they could get away with deleting a feature that cost $900 in other cars I looked at. We don't know what the results of market research were. Getting an in with someone on the market research team—now that would be a real "interesting discovery" for this thread!

 

[MerlintheMad]

I agree, the engine sound boost should be able to be turned off altogether.

My suspicion about all this gadgetry is that most of it is apparent, not literally manipulating the car much if at all. Why? Because car geeks love to play with a big range of optional settings. It makes them feel/believe that they are fine tuning their car to handle the way they personally choose. The whole shtick about enhancing the sound of the engine in the cabin is an obvious one: it means absolutely nothing about how the car performs. But it's FUN. I suspect that all of this is just meant to be fun.

The real stuff, like electronically modulated suspension, power to the wheels to meet constantly changing road conditions. altering the RPMs when shifting to suit a softer or more aggressive driving style, and so on are not "settings" but inherent traits built into the operation of the various components. The driver is told that these are working. He has no control over any of it. So add in a lot of features that have "settings" to tinker with. It's more fun that way.

 

[Mike_TX]

You guys seem to be missing the point that these features all already exist. We just can't get all or some of them that we want depending on which market we live in.

I'm always reminded of the old Ford Motors story when I see posts like this.

The story is that Ford gives employees a cash reward for suggesting improvements that are actually implemented in the manufacture of their vehicles. This one guy suggested that by pulling wiring tight instead of leaving a little slack in it would save "x" number of feet of wire per car. The wire cost averages only a few cents per foot, but multiplied by the miles of wiring in a car and the millions of cars and trucks Ford produces, it added up to millions of dollars in savings.

The point is that little things make big differences in car production cost, so manufacturers often cut out "little" things that we think wouldn't cost them squat. It's true it's only a dollar here and a dollar there, but the bean counters chase every penny, and if withholding some little feature will save dollars (and therefore millions), you can bet they will seriously consider doing so.

It's frustrating to us buyers, but the whole reason for being for the bean counters.