Endlinks Worth it?

[D.J.]

No I don't comp for drivers weight that would be proper and yes there is quit a difference in driveability or the filling, have experimented with this over time and for me and my setup works much better this way

Isn't it sort of, pre-loaded for left or right turns then? But not both?

 

[socalvn]

Isn't it sort of, pre-loaded for left or right turns then? But not both?

I would say yes for both because I just took the slack out of it doing one side affects both equally

 

[turboAWD]

How is your old removed OEM end link bent?

Bent how? Can you share a pic?

As I said - had shop put on new sway bars early in 2020 (got like 30-40% off from the Black Friday sale, just backordered for a bit). They've generally done dependable work. Although, this time, they really over-torqued the lug nuts, so maybe they put someone new on the job? I didn't look too closely at the parts in the box as I stored them. So, in theory, it could have been bent BY the removal process, but I'm guessing hitting a big pothole is more likely?

Kinda weird - they are listed as different parts, left and right? 54830-J5000 (left) and 54840-J5000 (right)? Aren't they interchangeable? I just took the straight one and put it on the driver's side, and had no issues (as far as I can tell - I've only gone for a quick 1/2 km test drive).

 

[D.J.]

View attachment 86920

That is, odd!
I can't believe that was caused by regular use, even with an extremely stiff aftermarket sway bar.

Crazy

 

[turboAWD]

Also interesting that they want $75 / $65 for one endlink (although I can find them for $42 each on ebay). The godspeed adjustable endlinks are $60 on ebay for a pair.. Is there really a left/right difference? What is different?

 

[turboAWD]

That is, odd!
I can't believe that was caused by regular use, even with an extremely stiff aftermarket sway bar.

Crazy

I mean, in theory, I could have caused that while trying to get it loose (I tried a few different approaches) but I can't imagine I put enough stress on it to bend something like that. The center section of the whitelines seems like 5x stronger though - pity the moving parts aren't..

 

[D.J.]

Is there really a left/right difference? What is different?

Apparently ... Slight difference in the angles between top and bottom... I have never tried putting the wrong one on the wrong side

 

[turboAWD]

Yeah, those Rock Auto ones seem like cheap replacements that are probably almost as good as OEM. I know the MEVO ones were a huge "must get these - way better than OEM" in the Subaru community for about 1-2 years until they started failing..

A little googling seems to indicate that the bent one (which has IK/CK-LH on it) is the driver's side, so I have now put the passenger side endlink over on the driver's side. Oh well. I'll see if there are any clunks or squeaks. But it does make it a bit more likely I'll get another set.

Now that I know what I'm doing, it'll go much faster - and no need to do the bushings, so it'll just be 2 nuts on each side without any complicated maneuvering, etc. Plus, I'll get a 6mm hex socket, so I can hold with the wrench and spin with a ratchet or driver. Luckily I had a plastic handle (from my old VW reversible screwdriver!) that fit the 6mm hex wrench I had on hand - it was so much easier on my hands that way, but I still had to do so much turn-a-small-amount, pull out, rotate back a small amount, re-insert, etc (or hold the hex and turn like 1/8 th of a turn at a time with the wrench).

 

[Volfy]

As I said - had shop put on new sway bars early in 2020 (got like 30-40% off from the Black Friday sale, just backordered for a bit). They've generally done dependable work. Although, this time, they really over-torqued the lug nuts, so maybe they put someone new on the job? I didn't look too closely at the parts in the box as I stored them. So, in theory, it could have been bent BY the removal process, but I'm guessing hitting a big pothole is more likely?

Kinda weird - they are listed as different parts, left and right? 54830-J5000 (left) and 54840-J5000 (right)? Aren't they interchangeable? I just took the straight one and put it on the driver's side, and had no issues (as far as I can tell - I've only gone for a quick 1/2 km test drive).


View attachment 86920

I find that highly suspect. For two reasons:

1. Looking at the pic above, the only possible failure mode is via first buckling mode. The unique characteristics of this pinned buckling mode is that the stress on the buckled rod is fairly evenly distributed over a large portion of the length of the rod. it will take a great deal of deflection for the stress at any one particular point to exceed the tensile strength (elasticity limit) of the steel member and form plastic (permanent) deformation.

2. The typical steel alloy's Young's modulus of elasticity is some 29,000,000 psi. These OEM end links more than likely are even stronger steel alloy and heat treated per the application. Even hitting a biggest pot hole from hell will likely damage your tire and wheel long before it would stress that OEM endlink enough for cause permanent deformation.

3. Furthermore, one end of the endlink is acting upon a torsion spring that is the anti-roll bar. This torsion spring constant is by design many orders of magnitude softer than what can buckle the end link. Even with the typical aftermarket bars. Any load imposed on the endlink is translated into the torsion spring, whose very deflection lessens the likelihood of the endlink buckling. This - by itself - basically eliminates the possibly of endlink buckling. The only possibility is if the anti-roll bar is not installed correctly, such that the bar binds up somehow and cannot behave normally as a torsion spring, thus concentrating the buckling load onto the endlink.


Fact is, I've got 3 Stingers/G70 all running Whiteline anti-roll bars and OEM endlinks. These cars have been repeatedly put through some seriously paces for some 3yrs now. And I've hit my fair share of pot holes from hell as well. Not a single endlink - out of 6 - have failed from buckling, and I just don't see it happening... ever. No doubt the end ball joints will eventually fail, and that is what I would expect.

Porsche, amongst other mfrs, uses very similar endlinks. These are for a 911.

 

[turboAWD]

I don't disagree with that assessment - so are you saying it was most likely bent from the factory? I mean, it got bent SOMEHOW. I did hit a few potholes, but these were only only the car less than a year, IIRC (June '19 to March '20).

Or are you saying you suspect someone botched the disassembly?

In any case - probably time to put 2 new ones on when I can - I really wanted to get rid of the popping and squeaking, and I *THINK* I've accomplished both. Will have to see when I can drive it a bit more. So - cheap Beck-Arnley ones from RockAuto? OEM? Or cheap godspeed? Beck-Arnley is less than $50 for both.. Godspeed $60 for both, OEM is around $90+.

 

[Volfy]

I don't disagree with that assessment - so are you saying it was most likely bent from the factory? I mean, it got bent SOMEHOW. I did hit a few potholes, but these were only only the car less than a year, IIRC (June '19 to March '20).

Or are you saying you suspect someone botched the disassembly?

I don't know exactly the sequence of events that lead from your car being stock undamaged to you being handed an OEM endlink that looked like that. All I can say is that a properly installed OEM end link being driven "normally" - even with potholes and HPDE - isn't at all likely to suffer that sort of damage. I also do all my own wrenching, so that eliminate the possibility of things done to my car that are unknown to me.

I'm certainly not going to accuse anybody of anything if I don't know the details. But I can tell you - in my own experience - I've had my brand new unused spare tire swapped out with an old worn one, after the car spend time at a body shop for collision repair. The same repair shop also tried to return the car back to me with one of the wheel's paint all peeling and coming off. No freaking idea if somebody there pulled another switcheroo (like the spare wheel), or they botched up a cleaning job with harsh chemicals. In the end, I got them to swap out the damaged wheel with a pristine one. In short, if the car was worked on by anybody other than yourself... all bets are off.

In any case - probably time to put 2 new ones on when I can - I really wanted to get rid of the popping and squeaking, and I *THINK* I've accomplished both. Will have to see when I can drive it a bit more. So - cheap Beck-Arnley ones from RockAuto? OEM? Or cheap godspeed? Beck-Arnley is less than $50 for both.. Godspeed $60 for both, OEM is around $90+.

In a case like that - if it were me - I would get under the car and check everything MYSELF.

If you have to rely on others to do your wrenching, I would fall back on what I know works. Obviously stock EVERYTHING would be the surest bet, but you probably don't want to go that far. In that case, the logical thing would be put back as many stock parts that never used to make noise, and retain as many aftermarket goodies as you prefer to keep on the car.

What I would not do is to swap one troublesome aftermarket part with another aftermarket part, either with unknown track record, or especially if it's one with mixed feedback... hoping the new unknown aftermarket part solves the problem.

 

[turboAWD]

So far, so good as far as repairs - no more noise. I doubt there was a switcheroo - this is a generic shop that somewhat specializes in European cars / Mercedes. Unlikely they had another kia endlink lying around. It was still attached to the oem swaybar.

Edit: (was on the phone before - much easier to type from a keyboard).

I mean, my armchair diagnosis seems to have been 100% correct - the bushings were WORN (the new ones have a diamond-grid texture inside to hold lube, I am guessing. That was 95% worn off on the old ones, and any residual lube was a crumbly paste. Exactly what I suspected. I had Cobb sways on my Subaru for 10+ years and they never needed any maintenance, nor my VW aftermarket sways before that, so I just wasn't expecting it. After reading up on it, whiteline seems to be somewhat unique to this issue, so no surprise - the bushings were noisy. So I got different grease in the hopes it lasts longer than whiteline supplied lube - Energy Suspension Formula 5 prelube. We'll see.

The popping sounds I heard were 95% a match for a broken endlink video I found on youtube - and it seems to also be confirmed - the popping seems gone.

Car handles fine - nothing unusual there. Just much quieter over bumps / uneven pavement now.

I guess I have been "under the car". Nothing else looks bent / out-of-shape on the suspension although I am not an expert. I try to wrench myself as much as possible, but I also have my own limits (have a fulltime job, family that needs me, wife that wants lots of attention , no lift, just jackstands in a somewhat crowded garage, not every possible tool, I'm not the strongest guy out there, I often have to learn/figure out things on the fly, so it takes a long time to do something once, etc). I do all my own oil changes, brake pads/rotors, etc. Will probably still hire others to do coolant stuff, brake line flushes (maybe), etc. This car has only been to a shop maybe 5-7 times: complimentary dealer oil change, install sways, flush brake fluid to prepare for track 2 or 3x, install an upgraded trans cooler / Amsoil trans oil.

Now to worry about the small drop of oil I saw at the oil filter housing (I didn't change the o-ring last time - I guess I got lazy - will change it next time) and worry more about the rear main seal leak (I wiped it off ~500 miles ago when I did the oil) - it seems to have leaked a bit more. Not sure if that's covered under power-train warranty - I may get them to look at it if/when I take it in for the oil line recall.

 

[Volfy]

Polyurethane bushings squeaking is quite common. My very first set on an '89 VW GTI would squeak like a pig if I didn't grease the bushings every 6months or so.

if I were you, I would switch out the bushings that came with Whiteline and go with greaseable bushing and brackets. That's what I did on all 3 cars. I've posted pics and links elsewhere in this forum, so highly recommend you look it up and get those swapped out.

 

[turboAWD]

Polyurethane bushings squeaking is quite common. My very first set on an '89 VW GTI would squeak like a pig if I didn't grease the bushings every 6months or so.

if I were you, I would switch out the bushings that came with Whiteline and go with greaseable bushing and brackets. That's what I did on all 3 cars. I've posted pics and links elsewhere in this forum, so highly recommend you look it up and get those swapped out.

Thanks. Found your posting. I assume that requires some kind of "grease gun"? One more tool I don't have

I hope the current set is good for another ~2-3 years at minimum (since I got ~3 years from the original set with inferior grease). At that point, sure, upgrading makes sense if I still have the car.

 

[Volfy]

Thanks. Found your posting. I assume that requires some kind of "grease gun"? One more tool I don't have

I hope the current set is good for another ~2-3 years at minimum (since I got ~3 years from the original set with inferior grease). At that point, sure, upgrading makes sense if I still have the car.

Yeah, any standard grease gun would work. Amazon has a bazillion of them, many for less than $20. It's like a good tire pressure gauge... something just about all car guys would/should have around.

 

[turboAWD]

Yeah, any standard grease gun would work. Amazon has a bazillion of them, many for less than $20. It's like a good tire pressure gauge... something just about all car guys would/should have around.

I understand grease fittings used to be common on many major car components, but these days - where would a grease gun even be applicable, other than intentionally going for zerk bushings, with most components going to "lifetime" sealed form factor?

 

[Volfy]

I understand grease fittings used to be common on many major car components, but these days - where would a grease gun even be applicable, other than intentionally going for zerk bushings, with most components going to "lifetime" sealed form factor?

Just the other day, I bought a new floor jack and had to pump the two grease fittings on it, as specified in the instructions. But you're right... most cars these days don't have grease fittings anywhere. Still, even if there are no zerk fittings, grease is used in a lot of places, and I usually have a couple or 3 different kinds lying around... white lithium (for light lube), synthetic high-temp (for wheel bearings), and a general-purpose (for suspension components and just about everything else). They are cheaper when bought in pump cartridges, even if I don't always use the pump gun.

 

[turboAWD]

I look at it this way: replacement bushings are about the same cost ($30 / set), regardless of whether I get the Whiteline or Energy Suspension set. if I get the ES set, I'll need a $20 grease gun, and grease in a tube (as opposed to the plastic tub I have now) - at least another $10. Labor aside, that would require THREE bushing replacements before I come out ahead (I don't expect poly bushings to be that drastically better for 3-5 HDPE days a year - especially not at my driving level). Given that the current bushings lasted ~3 years (I drove about a year with squeaking), I am expecting another 3 years out of the new set. So, in 9 years, when the car is 14 years old, I'll save $30. Not really worth it at this point.