Densos toast after 9k miles

[GuyManDude]

Installed a JB4, plugs, flex kit, and intakes when I hit 3k miles on my GT2 '19, purchased new. Had the Densos installed and asked for a gap of.024. Things were great and I continued to FBO. I use a dragy and check logs and I saw no gains from WMI. Timing was advancing, but plunging between shifts. I started installing new plugs today replacing them with the same Denso 5346's, mainly to see if lowering the gap to .022 would improve things, and to check the installation. Now I'm no mechanic, but after enough DIY posts from this site and YouTube tutorials I proceeded. First thing I noticed was how hard it was to get the plugs out. Every post I've ever read says "torque 20 lbs". The plugs came out gripped so tightly in the socket I had to use a vice to unthread them from the socket. The electrodes on all of the 3 that I've removed so far are toast. I use a JB4 and fuel Shell 93, E85 to an average of E23-25, secondary deletes ARK, cat-back. BOV, and recent BMS WMI. Do you think this is an issue of over tightening, or do I need to look at something else? The coil packs came out smoothly and appeared to be in good shape. See photos...thanks in advance.

 

[Toddasaurus]

From your picture the electrodes look fine; but, obviously I can only tell so much without measuring the gap and/or looking at a closer picture. The brown-orange color on the tips looks like deposits from octane booster to me, which is normal. If you haven't used any octane booster, it could just be from the pump fuel that you're using or even the ethanol. Either way, I think it looks fine - not too dark, not too light.

Adding WMI when already using an ~E30 blend will not make any significant difference. WMI is really only for increasing octane while still using pump gas. That said, e85 mixtures and WMI essentially are used for the exact same goal... (Though technically WMI could be used to supplement fuel requirements to richen up the a/f ratio).

Any improvement with replacing the plugs?

 

[GuyManDude]

From your picture the electrodes look fine; but, obviously I can only tell so much without measuring the gap and/or looking at a closer picture. The brown-orange color on the tips looks like deposits from octane booster to me, which is normal. If you haven't used any octane booster, it could just be from the pump fuel that you're using or even the ethanol. Either way, I think it looks fine - not too dark, not too light.

Adding WMI when already using an ~E30 blend will not make any significant difference. WMI is really only for increasing octane while still using pump gas. That said, e85 mixtures and WMI essentially are used for the exact same goal... (Though technically WMI could be used to supplement fuel requirements to richen up the a/f ratio).

Any improvement with replacing the plugs?

 

[Love4steel]

man.. just when I start seriously considering a tune, i read something like this.

 

[Helo58]

@Love4steel , if you are considering a tune, there is little reason for this to change your desire to have one. Most people who run tunes/piggybacks have zero unresolved issues once set up. Also, for the OP, is it possible that you received some "counterfeit" or non-genuine spark-plugs? This has happened from time to time in the various forums I have been on. Also, I see the residue indicative of octane booster. If you are running ethanol, WMI, and octane booster in less than ideal ways, it could actually hurt performance by slowing combustion too much. As stated by @Toddasaurus , many of these fuel strategies are redundant. If you aren't doing so already, possibly limit the amount of "tinkering" you do with the fuel by picking one strategy and implementing it perfectly.

 

[GuyManDude]

I'm halfway done. Everyone is right about the passenger side about the passenger side being a PITA. I'll report the difference. Thinking of just sticking with Shell 93 and WMI. Thanks Todd.

 

[GuyManDude]

@Helo58 get a tune and you can avoid a lot of BS. I run a lot of boost with fuel mixtures, but don't have the benefit of reduced coil dwell time for faster shifts, and will still have the occasional limp from overboost on hard launches. I worked with Tork and there was a problem with a file on my ECU. John refunded my money and said he has it worked out. I'll install ewg connectors and give it another go. For all the shit people give Tork, they are a good bunch to deal with.

 

[Stiletto]

The benefit of WMI in a DI fuel delivery system is cleaner valves. I had WMI, upgraded FMIC and a secondary fuel rail for running pure E85 in my Focus RS. Toddasaurus is right about E30 and WMI being a wash for power gains. You'd see much more hp from pure corn than the usual 50/50 blend of water/meth. Of course, if you change the ratio to 30/70 water/meth, the increase of power is substantial.

 

[GuyManDude]

Thanks guys. I'm going to zero out the ethanol, if I can find good 93 pure gas, then experiment with meth concentration. If anyone has any good advice for meth settings on the app, I'm all ears.

 

[xot1]

The benefit of WMI in a DI fuel delivery system is cleaner valves. I had WMI, upgraded FMIC and a secondary fuel rail for running pure E85 in my Focus RS. Toddasaurus is right about E30 and WMI being a wash for power gains. You'd see much more hp from pure corn than the usual 50/50 blend of water/meth. Of course, if you change the ratio to 30/70 water/meth, the increase of power is substantial.

Why not 100% meth? Most people use it here.

 

[Stiletto]

Why not 100% meth? Most people use it here.

Not sure, other than the benefits of water. Technically, if you can tune for it, water will produce more power due to the cooling properties and volumetric efficiency.

 

[General_Vodka]

I am leaning more and more to the HKS side. Expensive yes, but they seem to hold up. Also, I have no idea how mine made it 16K miles on stock plugs with a tune. Whats $150 when I already spent over 12k on parts alone lol

 

[Spooby]

Installed a JB4, plugs, flex kit, and intakes when I hit 3k miles on my GT2 '19, purchased new. Had the Densos installed and asked for a gap of.024. Things were great and I continued to FBO. I use a dragy and check logs and I saw no gains from WMI. Timing was advancing, but plunging between shifts. I started installing new plugs today replacing them with the same Denso 5346's, mainly to see if lowering the gap to .022 would improve things, and to check the installation. Now I'm no mechanic, but after enough DIY posts from this site and YouTube tutorials I proceeded. First thing I noticed was how hard it was to get the plugs out. Every post I've ever read says "torque 20 lbs". The plugs came out gripped so tightly in the socket I had to use a vice to unthread them from the socket. The electrodes on all of the 3 that I've removed so far are toast. I use a JB4 and fuel Shell 93, E85 to an average of E23-25, secondary deletes ARK, cat-back. BOV, and recent BMS WMI. Do you think this is an issue of over tightening, or do I need to look at something else? The coil packs came out smoothly and appeared to be in good shape. See photos...thanks in advance.

The denso IKH24 plugs are known to have issues. I'm shocked people still sell them. On my previous platform, those plugs plagued people from going bad after a few K to breaking inside your motor. I actually had the iridium tip break off in my motor, never used those plugs again. I'll see if I can find the old pictures of them so you know I'm not pumping you full of BS. Check out the NGK r7437-9 for a nice racing plug or check out brisk plugs. The stock plugs out of the Audi RS7 are the same size as the 3.3tt plugs. I'll be the scape goat on those as I research a bit more before slapping those in.

 

[Toddasaurus]

The denso IKH24 plugs are known to have issues. I'm shocked people still sell them. On my previous platform, those plugs plagued people from going bad after a few K to breaking inside your motor. I actually had the iridium tip break off in my motor, never used those plugs again. I'll see if I can find the old pictures of them so you know I'm not pumping you full of BS. Check out the NGK r7437-9 for a nice racing plug or check out brisk plugs. The stock plugs out of the Audi RS7 are the same size as the 3.3tt plugs. I'll be the scape goat on those as I research a bit more before slapping those in.

Nice. I'm thinking about either using a set of Brisk ER12YS or NGK 4901 next time I replace my spark plugs. Both are a heat range of 8 (one step colder than stock), which should be sufficient for me. I'll mostly be testing differences in highway mpg as power differences will be too small to measure. I've noticed my mileage went down after my last plug swap, which I think is mostly a result of the much smaller gap.

Here are pics of the plugs I'm considering, just for fun...

Brisk ER12YS:



NGK 4901:




Those NGK's ain't cheap, though... So I will most likely just try the Brisk plugs.

 

[Spooby]

Yeah those -9 NGKs are expensive for a plug. I've ran brisk silvers quite a bit and had no issues. Now if you go bigger turbo I don't recommend them as they can cause a bit of timing pull up top. The rule of thumb on plugs is for every 100hp, go one heat range colder. The RS7 plugs are priced well and an 8 heat range but I want to test them myself before saying they're worth a buy.

 

[General_Vodka]

What gap do you run? Stock was around 35 ish and my HKS came in 30 so I used that. Someone said they run 22 no problem.

 

[Toddasaurus]

Yeah those -9 NGKs are expensive for a plug. I've ran brisk silvers quite a bit and had no issues. Now if you go bigger turbo I don't recommend them as they can cause a bit of timing pull up top. The rule of thumb on plugs is for every 100hp, go one heat range colder. The RS7 plugs are priced well and an 8 heat range but I want to test them myself before saying they're worth a buy.

Link to the RS7 plugs you're referring to? I see a couple of them, and they both look like they need screw-in terminals to work with our coils...

 

[Spooby]

SKU 06K-998-601-M
and
NGK R7437-9
I have both in my garage and just threw in the HKS plugs because I only have 4 of the others. The RS7 plugs run off of a 4 wire coil plug. I need to look further into them. They are the exact same size and heat range as the denso IKH24s except not poorly made.

 

[Spooby]

Essentially what I'm checking is factors like thread pitch, thread length, heat range and resistance. Worst case, car misfires and runs like shit or throws a code. Best case, this community now has another option to a good spark plug instead of blowing a small fortune on HKS plugs or wasting their money on the densos.

 

[General_Vodka]

Essentially what I'm checking is factors like thread pitch, thread length, heat range and resistance. Worst case, car misfires and runs like shit or throws a code. Best case, this community now has another option to a good spark plug instead of blowing a small fortune on HKS plugs or wasting their money on the densos.

..Buys 50k car, doesn't like to pay $160 for spark plugs. Lol. If the HKS last a long time then I have no problem paying for them. Good luck with your search though.