DECISION TIME: CPO Gt-Line or GT1?

[Rich_Freakin_Evans]

We use it mainly for road trips. My wife does daily it a few days a week but only about 20 miles.

Covid had her working remote and she still does 75% of the time now.

I also have a company vehicle and a Tundra and Grand cherokee . So thats why the low miles.

Understood, thank you

 

[RWTD_Burn]

2022 GT1 would be the easy pick for me. I've only had my Stinger GT for less than 2 months but test drove both the GT and the GT-line. After driving the GT the GT-Line was completely out of the picture.

 

[DonD]

I've been a car enthusiast for 60 yrs and have never heard the term "square wheels". I'd appreciate an explanation. Thanks, Don

 

[bfglitch]

I've been a car enthusiast for 60 yrs and have never heard the term "square wheels". I'd appreciate an explanation. Thanks, Don

"Squared" = front tire sizes are identical to the rear
"Staggered" = Front and rear tire sizes are different. Usually rear are wider.

 

[7Andrei7]

I purposely got a larger/taller aspect ratio tire with more sidewall for winter conditions. The choices in a 18ninch wheel for tires is much larger and about 30% cheaper per tire then the staggered set up.

I understand the mechanics behind it, but we are not allowed to do that in Europe. And this is one thing that they will check for in any stop and take away your registration for it.

 

[LordKOTL]

If you were on the west side would you bother with snows? Or just run good all seasons?

In the PDX area myself:

I'm still running the stock Michelin summer tires. Once they give up the ghost I will move to all seasons. It just don't snow enough here to make 2 sets of tires worth it like my family in the midwest and my in-laws in Central europe do. I figure with chains/autosocks and all seasons my stinger should be able to take most of the weather that the PacNW throws at us--especially the rain from September to June.

All-seasons might not have the same grip that the summer tires do, but under 40C those summer tires go from handling like it's on rails to handling like it's on hockey pucks.

Thanks for the reply. Aside from tires, what maintenance costs have you incurred, esp those may be different from the 4cyl?

In my case I just passed the 9k mark. So most of the maintenence has been oil changes (I do my own), swapping out the crappy stock brake pads (I did my own), and a tire rotation (I did my own). Here's what I can glean:

The capacities for oil is more for the 3.3l than the 2.0l, but I'm not sure about the interval. I go by severe condition, so it's about every 3k miles. The 2.5 says every 5k miles. I'll let the 2.0l owners comment on the oil change interval for severe conditions.

A quick look tells me that tires are ~$40-$50 cheaper per tire between GT-line and GTx. i.e. MPS all seasons between the square 18" and the staggered 19".

Most of the other capacities are about the same.

Brake pads are likley cheaper for the non-brembos. I think K8SS pads for the whole set are ~$250. I think you can get Autozone ceramic pads for the non-brembos for all 4 wheels for ~100.

All of these are parts--not labor.

Honestly, I wouldn't consider maintenence to be that much more expensive except over a very long run--like multiple sets of tires long. My $0.02. You'll probably be charged the same at an oil change place for 2.0 vs 3.3. Beyond that? How long do tires and brake pads last? Years.

West side i wouldnt do snow tires just a good all season.
The AWD and all seasons does great even for me on the east side for everything but the worst days.
I lived on the west side for 15 years and never had snows on any car i ever had including work trucks.

Only ever had a problem once while in PDX for 2008 when the whole city couldt go anywhere and tires werent going to make one bit of difference.

That was like the ice storm a few years back. In that case my set of ancient CCM BlackTacks got me around faster than most cars were travelling.

 

[Rich_Freakin_Evans]

In the PDX area myself:

I'm still running the stock Michelin summer tires. Once they give up the ghost I will move to all seasons. It just don't snow enough here to make 2 sets of tires worth it like my family in the midwest and my in-laws in Central europe do. I figure with chains/autosocks and all seasons my stinger should be able to take most of the weather that the PacNW throws at us--especially the rain from September to June.

All-seasons might not have the same grip that the summer tires do, but under 40C those summer tires go from handling like it's on rails to handling like it's on hockey pucks.

In my case I just passed the 9k mark. So most of the maintenence has been oil changes (I do my own), swapping out the crappy stock brake pads (I did my own), and a tire rotation (I did my own). Here's what I can glean:

The capacities for oil is more for the 3.3l than the 2.0l, but I'm not sure about the interval. I go by severe condition, so it's about every 3k miles. The 2.5 says every 5k miles. I'll let the 2.0l owners comment on the oil change interval for severe conditions.

A quick look tells me that tires are ~$40-$50 cheaper per tire between GT-line and GTx. i.e. MPS all seasons between the square 18" and the staggered 19".

Most of the other capacities are about the same.

Brake pads are likley cheaper for the non-brembos. I think K8SS pads for the whole set are ~$250. I think you can get Autozone ceramic pads for the non-brembos for all 4 wheels for ~100.

All of these are parts--not labor.

Honestly, I wouldn't consider maintenence to be that much more expensive except over a very long run--like multiple sets of tires long. My $0.02. You'll probably be charged the same at an oil change place for 2.0 vs 3.3. Beyond that? How long do tires and brake pads last? Years.

That was like the ice storm a few years back. In that case my set of ancient CCM BlackTacks got me around faster than most cars were travelling.

Thanks for the lengthy response.
Can you tell me how much life is left on your stock tires?
What kind of MPG are you averaging?

 

[7Andrei7]

I have the 2.0 and had to choose it because my country (and most of the EU) is very unfriendly towards big non-hybrid engines. The taxes and insurance on the 3.3 are about 2k more, per year. This also makes it very hard to resell.

On the plus side, because of the high taxes on large engines, the 2.0 gt-line comes with everything you can get on the 3.3 gt2 in the US. Mine has the 19" wheels, LED headlights, bigger brakes, ventilated seats, 360 cameras, sunroof, HK sound etc.

But if I were you, in the US, and it was just about a little extra maintenance and a few thousands in purchasing cost, I would DEFINITELY choose the 3.3.

 

[Transmetal]

As the owner of a 2020 awd base gt. I'd go with the gt1. Unfortunately the 2022+ gt1 is a stripper version compared to the 2018-2021 models. I forget, does the 2022+ gt-line (non apex package) get all the stuff that the gt2 has besides the motor, suspension and brakes?

 

[Transmetal]

As the owner of a 2020 awd base gt. I'd go with the gt1. Unfortunately the 2022+ gt1 is a stripper version compared to the 2018-2021 models. I forget, does the 2022+ gt-line (non apex package) get all the stuff that the gt2 has besides the motor, suspension and brakes?

 

[Rich_Freakin_Evans]

As the owner of a 2020 awd base gt. I'd go with the gt1. Unfortunately the 2022+ gt1 is a stripper version compared to the 2018-2021 models. I forget, does the 2022+ gt-line (non apex package) get all the stuff that the gt2 has besides the motor, suspension and brakes?

From what I can tell in terms of 2022 gt-line vs GT2, the differences (besides what you already mentioned) are no ventilated seats, 360 camera, ambient lighting, power hatch, and has 18" squared set up wheels.

 

[Volfy]

I'm a bit late to the party, but figure I'll toss in my $0.02.

About a month ago, I was in the same exact buying decision, trying to decide between '22-23 GT-Line, GT1. Only difference... I was also considering G70, since we have both and like them equally. Even though I could've gotten a GT1 at very nearly the same $$$, I ultimately chose a '23 GT-Line.

The '19 Base model behind it should tell you where I was coming from power-wise. Personally, I have absolutely no problem with the 2.0T. My oldest son drives a '21 G70 6MT 2.0T and we have been having a ball going to AutoX and track event for the past 2 seasons. As I told him... anybody can buy a fast car, but it takes finesse and skill to be a fast driver. The former is a never-ending money pit; the latter is far more satisfying.

A few weeks ago, I was at a BMW Ultimate Driving Experience event and had the privilege of riding shotgun with a national-level instructor in a BMW 330e. Anybody that thinks 2.0T is slow should try that experience for themselves. That car makes 181hp@3,800 rpm (gas), 107hp (elec); 288hp (comb) and he slingshotted around that AutoX course like it had 500HP. Of course it hasn't. I myself drove the same car on the same course 1/2hr earlier, and I was wayyy slower.

Same thing happened with my Stinger 2.0T. I took my oldest to an AutoX Novice school back in Spring 2022, and an instructor that competes at the regional level drove my car (mostly bone stock at that time) wayyy faster than I could manage now with JB4, full suspension mods, and TW200 track tires.

Anyhow, back to the '23 Stinger... It's nice that Kia offers the Apex package on the GT-Line for '2023, but unfortunately it doesn't include the LSD. Not that I have a problem with that, as I retrofitted both Brembos and LSD on my '19 Stinger Base, so I could just as easily do the same with the '23. In fact, I already bought an LSD from a G70 6MT on ebay, so the '23 will be so equipped as well. The '23 shocks do feel better damped compared to the '19, so perhaps Kia retuned th damping rates. Doesn't really matter anyway. I'm skipping lowering springs and going to coilovers straight, from our experience in the G70.

I also like that the Smartstream is the latest gasoline engine architecture that is now powering the rest of the Genesis family. Not only does it have GDI+MPI, it also has a liquid-cooled intercooler, which is very trick and should be more efficient than the air-air intercooler previously used in both 2.0T and 3.3T.

Lastly, as much as we enjoy tracking our cars, they are still first-and-foremost daily drivers that spend 95+% of the miles on public roads, where I have zero interest engaging in street tomfoolery. While I do enjoy carving a nice corner every now and then when no other cars around, vast majority of the time, I'm hypermiling on my daily commute route trying to outdo myself on the MPG race. For the record, below is my current Personal Best in the 2.5T. I had to stop short of my 25mile commute to get gas, otherwise I probably could've eke out another 1 or 2 mpg higher. Anyhow, ambient temp is finally dropping here off the Gulf Coast, so I'll have to wait till next year to best myself on that one.


Anyhow, as always... your mileage may vary.

 

[Rich_Freakin_Evans]

I'm a bit late to the party, but figure I'll toss in my $0.02.

About a month ago, I was in the same exact buying decision, trying to decide between '22-23 GT-Line, GT1. Only difference... I was also considering G70, since we have both and like them equally. Even though I could've gotten a GT1 at very nearly the same $$$, I ultimately chose a '23 GT-Line.
View attachment 82711
The '19 Base model behind it should tell you where I was coming from power-wise. Personally, I have absolutely no problem with the 2.0T. My oldest son drives a '21 G70 6MT 2.0T and we have been having a ball going to AutoX and track event for the past 2 seasons. As I told him... anybody can buy a fast car, but it takes finesse and skill to be a fast driver. The former is a never-ending money pit; the latter is far more satisfying.

A few weeks ago, I was at a BMW Ultimate Driving Experience event and had the privilege of riding shotgun with a national-level instructor in a BMW 330e. Anybody that thinks 2.0T is slow should try that experience for themselves. That car makes 181hp@3,800 rpm (gas), 107hp (elec); 288hp (comb) and he slingshotted around that AutoX course like it had 500HP. Of course it hasn't. I myself drove the same car on the same course 1/2hr earlier, and I was wayyy slower.

Same thing happened with my Stinger 2.0T. I took my oldest to an AutoX Novice school back in Spring 2022, and an instructor that competes at the regional level drove my car (mostly bone stock at that time) wayyy faster than I could manage now with JB4, full suspension mods, and TW200 track tires.

Anyhow, back to the '23 Stinger... It's nice that Kia offers the Apex package on the GT-Line for '2023, but unfortunately it doesn't include the LSD (Limited Slip Differential). Not that I have a problem with that, as I retrofitted both Brembos and LSD (Limited Slip Differential) on my '19 Stinger Base, so I could just as easily do the same with the '23. In fact, I already bought an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) from a G70 6MT on ebay, so the '23 will be so equipped as well. The '23 shocks do feel better damped compared to the '19, so perhaps Kia retuned th damping rates. Doesn't really matter anyway. I'm skipping lowering springs and going to coilovers straight, since our experience in the G70.

I also like that the Smartstream is the latest gasoline engine architecture that is now powering the rest of the Genesis family. Not only does it have GDI+MPI, it also has a liquid-cooled intercooler, which is very trick and should be more efficient than the air-air intercooler previously used in both 2.0T and 3.3T.

Lastly, as much as we enjoy tracking our cars, they are still first-and-foremost daily drivers that spend 95+% of the miles on public roads, where I have zero interest engaging in street tomfoolery. While I do enjoy carving a nice corner every now and then when no other cars around, vast majority of the time, I'm hypermiling on my daily commute route trying to outdo myself on the MPG race. For the record, below is my current Personal Best in the 2.5T. I had to stop short of my 25mile commute to get gas, otherwise I probably could've eke out another 1 or 2 mpg higher. Anyhow, ambient temp is finally dropping here off the Gulf Coast, so I'll have to wait till next year to best myself on that one.
View attachment 82712

Anyhow, as always... your mileage may vary.

Really appreciate all the info. Im torn because other members have a good point about the initial purchase price being close enough not to matter.

However, part of the reason for selling the Audi was cost of maintenance. The gas mileage isnt a huge factor for me, but I dont need a money pit, even if there's a warranty.

What's your maintenance costs been so far on your GT-line?

 

[Volfy]

However, part of the reason for selling the Audi was cost of maintenance. The gas mileage isnt a huge factor for me, but I dont need a money pit, even if there's a warranty.

What's your maintenance costs been so far on your GT-line?

I do all maintenance work myself, so only cost has been filters, fluids, and misc parts, which realistically is not significant enough to matter. And it's pretty much the same with most of the vehicles I've owned. I used to be a big euro car fan, being a VW nut the first 10 of my driving years. I've since mostly shyed away from them for the reason you stated. I'm now a big fan of Korean cars, as they are quite reliable in my experience, and I've had over 10 of them.

That said, if you let the dealer service do your maintenance, then a lot depends on your particular dealer. Some can be real A-holes, overcharging and recommending needless work. Others are more reasonable.

* 2023 GT-line, New/loaner car, 5k miles,sun sound package, apex package, AWD ,$40,000/$400 mo. Out of my area, so hoping to negotiate in delivery.

BTW. This one would be my choice, though the asking price is not all that great. I got my '23 RWD for $34k+TTL. First owner was a lady that had it for 4mo and drove 12k miles. Judging by all the bugs I had to clean off the radiator, it was just about all hwy miles. Not CPO, but the balance of 4yr-8months bumper-bumper is more than good enough for me.

 

[LordKOTL]

Thanks for the lengthy response.
Can you tell me how much life is left on your stock tires?
What kind of MPG are you averaging?

Life? If I had to guess probably between 10k and 20k. They look in decent shape (only ~9.5k total on her) and I don't *always* drive it like I stole her through the twisties. Sometimes I do, but most of the time I just drive normally.

Treadlife on MPS4 summers is 30k I believe. People here have quoted less, but I think a lot depends on how spiritedly you drive and how much cornering you do. You have to really try to get the tires to burn out on an AWD.

MPG? My commute is backroads of about 4½ miles each way, and per tank I usually average about 18mpg if I'm in Eco. Sport is usually about 17mpg per tank. Comfort somewhere between. Highway/roadtrips I can get 30, usually 29. Truth be told if I'm not going to/from work, we're usually in my wife's electric pony since city driving is what that thing is made for. We do the roadtrips in my Stinger.

I don't think the 2.0T or 2.5T would be a bad choice. In my case I was coming from a 2008 Pontiac G6 GXP. The 2.0T power/torque specs are very similar to what the G6 was pushing out, and the 2.5T only a 50 hp/trq step up. I wanted something that was a definite step up in power (and the fact that I was able to make my wife drop an F-bomb on the test drive sealed the deal ). The best part is: The gas mileage on the 3.3TT is about the same as what I was pushing in the G6. Plus I'm enjoying the extra creature comforts like ventilated seats. I don't know if that's available on the GT-lines.

Honestly, I would say you couldn't really go wrong with either, and I don't think there would be any regret unless you *really* were after say, good gas mileage and got the GT1 or after a lot of power and got the GT line. A Stinger is a Stinger IMO; your wants and needs will be different from mine. If you can, I'd really try to test drive each. I know that might be hard to do, though.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Treadlife on MPS4 summers is 30k I believe.

not for the staggered. it's 15,000 treadlife warranty on the rears. that's about what I get too.

 

[LordKOTL]

not for the staggered. it's 15,000 treadlife warranty on the rears. that's about what I get too.

Good to know. I was just reading off of Tire rack.

 

[Volfy]

That's why I sold the G70's stock Michelins brand new with hairs still on them. Wearing them out in 15k of daily grind would be a waste of otherwise very capable Summer performance tires. Hopefully, new owner got proper use out of them.

Going back to the GT1 vs. GT-Line, there is good argument for each, depending on your needs and wants. Properly cared for, both engines are reliable, and I doubt the cost of maintenance would be all that much different. FWIW, I almost pulled the trigger on a '23 G70 Sport Prestige 3.3T. Who knows, I might yet buy one. In another couple of years, my daughter will take over the '23 GT-Line, and I'll be looking for another car... This time, the calculus will be a tad different, as it will be mine to keep, so I won't play temporary custodian again.

 

[LordKOTL]

That's why I sold the G70's stock Michelins brand new with hairs still on them. Wearing them out in 15k of daily grind would be a waste of otherwise very capable Summer performance tires. Hopefully, new owner got proper use out of them.

Going back to the GT1 vs. GT-Line, there is good argument for each, depending on your needs and wants. Properly cared for, both engines are reliable, and I doubt the cost of maintenance would be all that much different. FWIW, I almost pulled the trigger on a '23 G70 Sport Prestige 3.3T. Who knows, I might yet buy one. In another couple of years, my daughter will take over the '23 GT-Line, and I'll be looking for another car... This time, the calculus will be a tad different, as it will be mine to keep, so I won't play temporary custodian again.

That's why I'm glad I've done some spirited driving and not just daily grind on them .

The rest is what I was driving at--I don't think either is a wrong choice, but the driver's wants and needs should govern whether the 2.5T or the 3.3TT is the better choice.

 

[7Andrei7]

That's why I sold the G70's stock Michelins brand new with hairs still on them. Wearing them out in 15k of daily grind would be a waste of otherwise very capable Summer performance tires. Hopefully, new owner got proper use out of them.

The staggered setup doesn't only last 15k miles. I'd say the rears will last about 15-18k miles and the fronts will last about 30k miles.
In my case, I've managed to easily do 30k miles on 6 tires. 1 set of fronts and 2 sets of rears. When the rears are at 3mm (and I change them) the fronts will still have around 5.5 mm left. After you put the second set of rears, they reach 3mm at about the same time.

Interestingly, I also had one set of square 18" (winter Pirelli Sottozero 3) which I did rotate and they lasted for only 2 winters. Less than 25k miles.
What I'm trying to say is that rotating tires does not necessarily mean you will use less tires. It just means you switch to a whole new set earlier.

However, I'm talking about how my RWD behaves. Not sure about the AWD.
I now run 2 sets of staggered 19" (summer and winter) and am very happy about them. I don't track the car but use it for long distance cruising (at 87mph). The car behaves just lovely (109k miles so far).