Confused on this Dealerships pricing, Lease Offer, help

[STNGRNV]

Eh, I'll be chastised for this because I'm a dealer, but on a lease there's nothing wrong with letting them know a monthly payment you can afford as long as you do your math and find a reasonable payment to commit to. Either way the car is being discounted, and you'll see the final sales price before you sign any official paperwork.

If someone commits to a certain payment and won't budge, there's a much higher chance my manager will discount the car to a loss or extremely slim profit than someone coming in and offering a low out-the-door offer.

Feel free to let me know if I'm wrong - I really am just trying to be open and honest here.

I'm speaking from a consumer POV as well. Some may get so fixated on payments that they don't consider the overall price. This will likely be my first lease, so you may be correct on that point.

 

[Dave Miller]

I'm speaking from a consumer POV as well. Some may get so fixated on payments that they don't consider the overall price. This will likely be my first lease, so you may be correct on that point.

You're definitely 100% correct in a purchase scenario - you should focus on the out-the-door cost. There are too many ways a dealership can fudge with the numbers on a purchase (interest rate, term, etc.) that aren't nearly as "adjustable" on a lease.

 

[iclicku]

Ok some "better" news. Dealership in Ohio offered with my trade in 12k miles/year on 36months for $569. With 1k down.

Now this does not include my Cook County sales tax, so I'm assuming this is going to push it to outside my budget. Having mentioned earlier that I am moving to TN within a few months I would be wiser to wait until I am moved, that way I don't have to re title it, etc..

But this gives me hope since the monthly was closer to what I want.

If you want to pay a certain amount then do so. But it does not give an idea of how good of a deal is if we don't have the info needs to calculate the actual lease.

 

[Chris]

Ok some "better" news. Dealership in Ohio offered with my trade in 12k miles/year on 36months for $569. With 1k down.

Now this does not include my Cook County sales tax, so I'm assuming this is going to push it to outside my budget. Having mentioned earlier that I am moving to TN within a few months I would be wiser to wait until I am moved, that way I don't have to re title it, etc..

But this gives me hope since the monthly was closer to what I want.

If you move and register the car in a new place KMF will change the payment amount to reflect the new tax rate..

 

[SEA Stinger]

Also, don't play the "I want my monthly payment at ______" game. They'll do all kinds of shenanigans. Have an overall number for the car that you are willing to pay.

@jrhodes87, it looks like the dealer is working to totally rip you off. Some of those guys will try to charge you double if they think they have a shot at getting away with it.

Also, @STNGRNV is absolutely right that the "How much can you afford for a monthly payment" game is a diversion to take more money out of your wallet. Don't fall for it!

If you haven't already, I suggest you take a look at the KIA website:
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You can use it to:
1. Check for vehicles in inventory at dealers in your area
2. Calculate monthly lease or finance payments for any vehicle in stock

To calculate your payments, you simply do the following:
1. Find the vehicle you're interested in (model, color, options)
2. Click on the "Calculate Payments" button next to the vehicle listing
3. When the next page loads:
a. Click either "Lease" or Finance"
b. Enter your "Estimated Credit Score"
c. Click on your preferred "Lease Term" (e.g., 36 months)
d. Enter a down payment in the "Cash Down" box
e. If you're trading in a vehicle, enter your estimated "Trade-In Value" (there's a link to KBB to give you an estimate)
f. If you're trading in a vehicle enter the "Amount Owed on Trade-In"
g. Enter how many "Annual Miles" you will drive (e.g., 12,000)

I ran this for a GT AWD lease, 720 credit score, 36-month lease term, $0 cash down payment (first payment due at signing), no trade-in, 12,000 miles per year.

Here's the result: "Estimated Lease Payment = $536/Month"

This monthly payment is based on the MSRP of $41,525, minus the lease incentive for a GT AWD of $5,400.

The monthly payment does not include sales tax, license, registration, acquisition fee*, accessories, or junk charges, which will raise the monthly lease payment. (*The lease includes a $650 acquisition fee, which I don't believe is included in the estimate shown on the KIA site.)

The monthly payment also does not include any further discount from MSRP that you are able to negotiate with the dealer, which in some cases can be as much as $3,000. This will reduce the monthly payment.

Assuming the acquisition fee, tax, license, registration add up to roughly $3,000, and assuming you can get the dealer to discount the selling price by $3,000 (in addition to the KIA incentive of $5,400), then your lease payment should be right around $536 per month. Any cash down and/or trade-in would reduce this further.

If you want to get deeper in the weeds, leasehakr has information and a lease calculator: Home

Like anything else, there are good dealers, and some really slimy ones. By sharing information, we can fight back against the rip-off artists!

Hope this helps.

 

[SEA Stinger]

Quick addendum to my first reply above:

I completely agree with @Chris and @iclicku about getting all the numbers - in writing or via email - and taking them home with you to review. * * * Don't allow the dealer to pressure you or rush you into anything!!! * * * Stingers are starting to become more plentiful at dealers, and the current KIA lease program is effective through the end of February. So you can take your time and make an informed purchase decision.

The KIA website calculator shows the MSRP, Lease Incentive, etc. As I mentioned above, it doesn't show the Acquisition Fee, Money Factor, or Residual Value.

If the dealer quotes you a high lease payment, they may be doing it by jacking up things like the money factor or adding junk charges. That's why you need to get the details in writing, so that you can check them against KIA's posted lease details. Money Factors and Residual Values are available elsewhere here on stingerforum.org

 

[DaJackson]

Also, don't play the "I want my monthly payment at ______" game. They'll do all kinds of shenanigans. Have an overall number for the car that you are willing to pay.

Ill agree with others that say its fine to play this game, but know what variables they can move to lower your payment. Getting my lease it was "I want my payment at $X including tax with $X down, X miles per year for X years" At that point the only variables they can change are on their end that don't really impact me (I didn't care about residual since I don't plan to buy the car at the end of the lease)

Still had plenty of dealers get to my payment but tried not to mention it was for less miles, or needed more money down or didn't include taxes.

 

[Mhol]

This is what one of my dealers has the website.

 

[SEA Stinger]

Ill agree with others that say its fine to play this game, but know what variables they can move to lower your payment. Getting my lease it was "I want my payment at $X including tax with $X down, X miles per year for X years" At that point the only variables they can change are on their end that don't really impact me (I didn't care about residual since I don't plan to buy the car at the end of the lease)

Still had plenty of dealers get to my payment but tried not to mention it was for less miles, or needed more money down or didn't include taxes.

I don't consider getting educated about the details of an auto deal to be a game.

Suppose I go in and tell a dealer I'll pay $100/month for a lease, and the dealer counters that they'll do the lease for $900/month. What happens next? Typically the negotiation will end up somewhere between $100/month and $900/month. But where, exactly?

On one hand, the dealer can't lease at a payment that's so low that it loses them money. On the other hand, as a buyer I'm not going to pay more for the lease than I need to. If all the buyer has to negotiate with is a number for what they are willing/able to pay each month, that puts them at a big disadvantage in the negotiation.

However, if the buyer knows the dealer's actual cost for the car (or at least the invoice), KIA's incentives and standard lease terms, and doesn't fall for hidden junk fees, jacked up money factors, low-balled residuals, etc. they are in a good position to negotiate on an informed basis and get a good deal.

Sellers or buyers "negotiating" by trying to push each other around in the absence of actual facts is bogus. Getting informed takes some work, but sharing information and advice here makes it easier.

 

[jrhodes87]

Great info guys, appreciate every ones help. Funny I am getting married in august and me and my fiance both young have a goal of paying for our own wedding, so right now we are throwing an extra 2k/month at it, not to mention all the other things we pay towards the wedding.

I just want this car so bad, I'm being very very impatient. I know if I were to wait until after Aug or even after I move to TN I'd be able to get this car sub 500/month, as inventories will be more plentiful and used ones may be popping up more frequent.

I am testing the waters though for now so to speak. It's just frustrating because I was hooked the moment I did that damn launch control at the dealer haha. Young and dumb

 

[Dave Miller]

@SEA Stinger honestly I think there are 2 ways to do it and there's no shame in either of them. You can either be super informed and know exactly what you want in order to get the car you want at the price you want. Or, you can be uninformed, stick to a payment that is comfortable to you, and requires them to discount the car a fair amount. You might not get as big of a discount this way as if you knew every factor of the deal, but you're still likely to end up with a great deal and you probably saved yourself a fair amount of time.

I'm sure most people that are glued to this forum are the super informed type though

@jrhodes87 how long do you have left on your lease? The best way to lower your payments is to just not bring over any negative equity or trade with you. It will probably help you in the negotiation process as well. I wouldn't count on any pre-owned Stingers for a while - the Niro has been on sale for over a year and we've yet to see our first one traded back in.

 

[jrhodes87]

@SEA Stinger

@jrhodes87 how long do you have left on your lease? The best way to lower your payments is to just not bring over any negative equity or trade with you. It will probably help you in the negotiation process as well. I wouldn't count on any pre-owned Stingers for a while - the Niro has been on sale for over a year and we've yet to see our first one traded back in.

I'm not leasing, I'm financing and I'm about 3k under water on my Genesis, which is something I know not helping me. Part of me wants to just try to carmax it and pay the difference then look for a Stinger without having the over head on the lease. But then I won't have anything to drive (to go get the stinger lol)

Have thought about trying to work a private deal but I don't know how to even go about that. Either way I'm expecting to lose money, either paying off the diff in full or on the lease

 

[Dave Miller]

It can be a bit of a pain to do a private deal while your car is financed, but it isn't too terrible. The worst part is finding someone willing to buy the car even though it has a lien, because most private buyers don't want any hassle whatsoever. If you have the car financed through a bank/CU with a local branch you can have the buyer come with you to the bank and you can pay off your loan then and there with the help of somebody working at the bank.

 

[jrhodes87]

It can be a bit of a pain to do a private deal while your car is financed, but it isn't too terrible. The worst part is finding someone willing to buy the car even though it has a lien, because most private buyers don't want any hassle whatsoever. If you have the car financed through a bank/CU with a local branch you can have the buyer come with you to the bank and you can pay off your loan then and there with the help of somebody working at the bank.

Yes it's through chase. That is an option, I suppose I could start advertising and see what comes of it

 

[Dave Miller]

Yes it's through chase. That is an option, I suppose I could start advertising and see what comes of it

That's the right idea. Worst case scenario you wasted 10-15 minutes posting your car online and nothing comes of it. Best case someone helps you out of the Genesis and you can get your dream ride I'd of course make sure you have some good solid numbers on the Stinger before you go through with selling your car! Good luck!

 

[jrhodes87]

That's the right idea. Worst case scenario you wasted 10-15 minutes posting your car online and nothing comes of it. Best case someone helps you out of the Genesis and you can get your dream ride I'd of course make sure you have some good solid numbers on the Stinger before you go through with selling your car! Good luck!

Yes agreed. This community is so great, I need to take the time and really read through what everyone has posted

 

[SEA Stinger]

@SEA Stinger honestly I think there are 2 ways to do it and there's no shame in either of them. You can either be super informed and know exactly what you want in order to get the car you want at the price you want. Or, you can be uninformed, stick to a payment that is comfortable to you, and requires them to discount the car a fair amount. You might not get as big of a discount this way as if you knew every factor of the deal, but you're still likely to end up with a great deal and you probably saved yourself a fair amount of time.

I'm sure most people that are glued to this forum are the super informed type though

@jrhodes87 how long do you have left on your lease? The best way to lower your payments is to just not bring over any negative equity or trade with you. It will probably help you in the negotiation process as well. I wouldn't count on any pre-owned Stingers for a while - the Niro has been on sale for over a year and we've yet to see our first one traded back in.

@Dave Miller, I might agree that the uninformed customer/comfortable payment approach could work - IF buying from a seller who the buyer knows is honest, trustworthy, fair, and genuinely interested in helping the customer get a good deal on a car that best fits their needs and situation. Some dealers and salespeople fit in this category, presumably including you.

Unfortunately, a lot of other dealers are anything but honest, trustworthy or fair. (Also, keep in mind that buying a car is different than buying groceries or getting fitted for shoes. Car-buying is much more of a negotiation, with more moving parts and higher stakes.)

Based on @jrhodes87's description, it seems pretty clear he has run into the latter type of dealer who is trying to hose him. In that kind of situation, the customer simply can't trust the dealer to do right by them. Instead, the customer is wise to become well-informed, find another dealer who's a straight-shooter, or ideally both.

In fact, I have found that being a well-informed customer helps even when working with more reputable dealers. They seem to genuinely appreciate it when the customer has done their homework and doesn't make wild, unreasonable demands during negotiations.

 

[Dave Miller]

I definitely love the well informed buyers, but sometimes they're too informed for their own good. Like the guy that apparently found out what is costs to make an Optima out of materials down to the last nut and bolt and expected us to sell him one for that cost. He wanted something like half off MSRP minus rebates

 

[SEA Stinger]

I definitely love the well informed buyers, but sometimes they're too informed for their own good. Like the guy that apparently found out what is costs to make an Optima out of materials down to the last nut and bolt and expected us to sell him one for that cost. He wanted something like half off MSRP minus rebates

@Dave Miller, the kind of customer you just described fundamentally misunderstands commerce.

In a better world, unreasonable customers and rip-off dealers would always find each other to make both their lives miserable!