Concerns - Popping/Creaking Noise from Sunroof

[westcoastGT]

As Rev said ............I put enough pressure on the Dealer and Kia Canada that they decided that this was going to be the fix ........and it was . I believe they had a similar problem when the current Sorento model was intro'd a few years back ( same panoroof) ..................I'm surprised they havent accepted this as a real issue . It is pretty invasive , and damage is possible though ..................thankfully what damage they did do , they corrected/replaced .................I feel for you guys !!

 

[Revvdmedia]

I feel like if Kia Corp was willing to pay the dealers for their time to run a proper and thorough diagnostic, we'd be a lot farther along by now. As useless as my dealer has become, they were kind of on the right track in what they did, but they didn't do what they needed to do to get to the root of the problem. They "dropped the headliner" and they thought the noise was gone, then added felt to touch points when putting it back up. The thing is, they didn't let the car sit in the sun the next day to absorb a bunch of heat, I think they test drove it in the morning when it was cold and they thought the noises were gone.

What they really need to do is hear a car with noises, drop/remove the headliner. They need to let the car sit out in the sun and heat with the headliner removed and then test drive. If the noises are gone, it's probably the headliner making contact with something. If the noises are not gone, leave the headliner off and have a tech drive while the other tech does some poking, prodding and using a stethoscope to figure out where the noises are coming from. If he finds them, they can start doing small fixes to see if one of them fixes it (bolt tightness, low friction washers between the frame and the roof, felt at touch points, etc). Keep using a piece by piece approach until you find the culprit. Of course the solution on that car may not apply to all, most or even many, but it's a start. Adding low friction washers and felt tape is a lot cheaper than replacing entire sunroofs. Also, Kia stating that noisy sunroofs is "normal" is also not acceptable.

I think Kia could be a lot more smart in this remediation. They also have the Genesis guys complaining, so they better get something figured out. My fingers are crossed for a TSB for next year, at least that is a starting point for most of us.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I feel like if Kia Corp was willing to pay the dealers for their time to run a proper and thorough diagnostic, we'd be a lot farther along by now. As useless as my dealer has become, they were kind of on the right track in what they did, but they didn't do what they needed to do to get to the root of the problem. They "dropped the headliner" and they thought the noise was gone, then added felt to touch points when putting it back up. The thing is, they didn't let the car sit in the sun the next day to absorb a bunch of heat, I think they test drove it in the morning when it was cold and they thought the noises were gone.

What they really need to do is hear a car with noises, drop/remove the headliner. They need to let the car sit out in the sun and heat with the headliner removed and then test drive. If the noises are gone, it's probably the headliner making contact with something. If the noises are not gone, leave the headliner off and have a tech drive while the other tech does some poking, prodding and using a stethoscope to figure out where the noises are coming from. If he finds them, they can start doing small fixes to see if one of them fixes it (bolt tightness, low friction washers between the frame and the roof, felt at touch points, etc). Keep using a piece by piece approach until you find the culprit. Of course the solution on that car may not apply to all, most or even many, but it's a start. Adding low friction washers and felt tape is a lot cheaper than replacing entire sunroofs. Also, Kia stating that noisy sunroofs is "normal" is also not acceptable.

I think Kia could be a lot more smart in this remediation. They also have the Genesis guys complaining, so they better get something figured out. My fingers are crossed for a TSB for next year, at least that is a starting point for most of us.

There won't be a TSB on a panoramic sunroof that has been used in vehicles for years.

There won't be any tech diagnostics like you envision as "a start": they have to be paid by the hour. Replacing the entire sunroof would be cheaper really quick compared to two techs driving around with stethoscopes and an assortment of washers!

"Normal" is an accurate judgment: their vehicles make these noises rather often. But still in the minority (I think rather small minority). No matter how many times a few individuals get on here, the majority of Stinger drivers are "tone deaf" to these noises: lower expectations? higher tolerance levels for extraneous noise? Some or a lot of that, probably. But also the great variability in extraneous noises across the board.

I say repeatedly that my car is quiet. And it is, to me. But one of you with better ears and lower tolerance for these annoyances would probably ride in my car and point out "things" that have existed under my radar for 18 months.

 

[Revvdmedia]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd like to elaborate since I do have much experience when it comes to cost and profitability of a business, how non compliances are addressed, etc.

There won't be a TSB on a panoramic sunroof that has been used in vehicles for years..

The Hyundai Sonota has a TSB for panoramic sunroof noises: TSB 13-BD-02 which involves application of "acoustic felt" and Loctite to sunroof crossmembers.

There won't be any tech diagnostics like you envision as "a start": they have to be paid by the hour. Replacing the entire sunroof would be cheaper really quick compared to two techs driving around with stethoscopes and an assortment of washers!

My thoughts on how the diagnostics should be performed were not intended to be used for every noise complaint, it was intended to be used either in a single complaint vehicle or a select sample of vehicles to establish a common source of noise and successful remediation efforts. If the sample shows 80% (random number) can be fixed by application of washer and felt, for example, that fix may only take 4 hours of dealer labor and nearly nothing for materials. With shop rates up here around 170 an hour (consumer cost, will be less for the dealer), that is only $680 per vehicle rather than $7000 per vehicle for an entire sunroof replacement, with a potential 80% success rate. Of course, the remediation is not guaranteed. There is also the fact that TSB is essentially an admission of guilt an may bring more customers to the shop to have this TSB performed rather than leaving it oblivious and scaring people off of having repairs done. Similar to how Ford thought the lawsuits for exploding gas tanks on the Pinto would be cheaper than the repairs, it is up to the manufacturer to determine how they will proceed.

"Normal" is an accurate judgment: their vehicles make these noises rather often.

I agree that if there are a reasonable number of complaints for sunroof noises, yes, that is "normal." While it may be normal or common, that doesn't necessarily mean it is acceptable from a quality standpoint. This is Kia's halo car, as noted by members of Kia themselves. Kia blasts their JD Power quality surveys and toots their quality horn wherever they can. Kia has a long comprehensive warranty that they gladly market. Some of us bought this car with an expectation of quality, for a car that was compared to BMW, Porsche and Audi. I'm not expecting the materials of a more expensive car, but I do expect a reasonable amount of NVH control. In some of our cars, the N (noise) is not well controlled, leading us to feel the vehicle is lacking in refinement quality

 

[MerlintheMad]

In some of our cars, the N (noise) is not well controlled, leading us to feel the vehicle is lacking in refinement quality

How could anyone argue with that?

"Acceptable" is a subjective judgment. And as I've said before, hearing is our most subjective sense, and the one most easily offended. I have no idea how Kia comes to a definition of "normal" and equates that with "acceptable". They are a company pursuing increasing profit margins, just like all companies. So they walk the tightrope of costs and results. If they cut too close, then too many of their vehicles of a particular model will fail to satisfy. I don't get that vibe from Stinger owners. On this forum the overwhelming majority judgment is satisfaction.

 

[Revvdmedia]

How could anyone argue with that?

"Acceptable" is a subjective judgment. And as I've said before, hearing is our most subjective sense, and the one most easily offended. I have no idea how Kia comes to a definition of "normal" and equates that with "acceptable". They are a company pursuing increasing profit margins, just like all companies. So they walk the tightrope of costs and results. If they cut too close, then too many of their vehicles of a particular model will fail to satisfy. I don't get that vibe from Stinger owners. On this forum the overwhelming majority judgment is satisfaction.

In all honesty as well, I am the type that will notice any and all defects on a car. I don't know for sure what started it but maybe it was my type spent working in quality control, I was asked with scrutinizing the compliance of parts down the thousandth of an inch, surface quality, even mistakes made by manpower (not signing things).

I have also recently undergone audiometric testing and I am still within the realm of "no degradation" of hearing. Combine the mental predisposition of expecting quality with a strong sense of hearing and then compound that with an attunement to extraneous noises in vehicles owning many which exhibited such noises and you have me, a recipe for disaster. I was of two minds with the Stinger, one was to try to ignore any noises that pop up, but two was to address any noises I hear with the dealer immediately due to the "adjustment warranty" which I thought would negate the dealer being able to refute pretty much any claims of deficient quality. The only dealer I have worked with so far has basically written me off with a "normal" diagnosis after 4 visits. In retrospect, I should have written some witty comment on the last service paperwork I signed stating something along the lines of "the problem is not remedied, I shall return at a later date."

 

[Bobr]

TSB 13-BD-02

Ok, found it here https://www.hyundai-forums.com/attachments/sonata-panoramic-sunroof-noise-pdf.149145/ Investigating...

 

[STINGER]

Bad news for me. After two years and roughly 30k miles my sunroof is now rattling.

Already raised the matter with the dealer and they said they will see if they can adjust it during the next service. Have a feeling it wont resolve the problem.

 

[Kamauxx]

Bad news for me. After two years and roughly 30k miles my sunroof is now rattling.

Already raised the matter with the dealer and they said they will see if they can adjust it during the next service. Have a feeling it wont resolve the problem.

You made it longer than most of us have.

I'm taking my car in for service Saturday. I will be getting the roof looked at while I'm there. Like you I have no faith that Kia's service techs will be able to fix it.

 

[Revvdmedia]

Bad news for me. After two years and roughly 30k miles my sunroof is now rattling.

Already raised the matter with the dealer and they said they will see if they can adjust it during the next service. Have a feeling it wont resolve the problem.

I've tried some non-invasive adjustments and none of them offered and remedy. I basically tried combinations of tightening and loosening all accessible bolts I could get to without dropping the headliner, nothing was any better or worse afterward. I'm confident the issue has something to do with the frame and/or headliner.

 

[STINGER]

I've tried some non-invasive adjustments and none of them offered and remedy. I basically tried combinations of tightening and loosening all accessible bolts I could get to without dropping the headliner, nothing was any better or worse afterward. I'm confident the issue has something to do with the frame and/or headliner.

I know, what your saying is exactly right. I just have to play along with the dealer until they figure this out themselves to were they will have to get in touch with Kia HQ in our region for a proper fix, needless to say this will mean multiple visits to the dealer reporting that the problem is still there until they will reach that point. oh well..

 

[Revvdmedia]

I know, what your saying is exactly right. I just have to play along with the dealer until they figure this out themselves to were they will have to get in touch with Kia HQ in our region for a proper fix, needless to say this will mean multiple visits to the dealer reporting that the problem is still there until they will reach that point. oh well..

I think the key to a successful diagnosis happens in stages. If it can be planned out on warmer sunny days, which is when many seem to have the worst noises, that would be the first step. If the dealer is willing to drop the headliner to do further diagnostics, I feel they should leave the car out in the sun and see if the noises still exist when the headliner is dropped/removed, thus removing the headliner from the equation of potential noises. From there they can further diagnose the noise with the headliner dropped/removed to actually find the source of the issue. Until they do this, it just seems like every diagnostic is a random adventure. Proper root cause analysis takes a progressive approach.

I understand they can't do this with all vehicles due to the cost, but if this allows a particular dealership to find the cause of noise that afflicts a large proportion of complaints, it is well worth the small investment of extra time. In reality, most of the extra time is idle time waiting for the roof to heat up to ensure there isn't a false positive that dropping the headliner causes noises to stop because the car was sitting in the shop, cooling, and thus the heat related element of the noises is being removed from the equation.

 

[Socalstinga]

It's been much cooler overnight/morning here in socal in comparison to the previous summer months, and I did notice I've had a very quiet car the last week or so...summer was just loud!

 

[Revvdmedia]

It's been much cooler overnight/morning here in socal in comparison to the previous summer months, and I did notice I've had a very quiet car the last week or so...summer was just loud!

Same here, it was below zero Celsius this morning (which is rude for Oct 1). The noisiest thing in the car was the plastic bag of broccoli I was transporting to work, lol. Oddly enough, I noticed this last winter too, I swear the door ticks are less common in summer (sunroof is loud) and the ticks are more common when it becomes cold, but the roof is quiet. Time to get some more lube on the seals I guess lol.

 

[westcoastGT]

i would be driving a new car by now if I was you !!

 

[Revvdmedia]

i would be driving a new car by now if I was you !!

The problem is I can't find a suitable replacement. I don't want another American car. Anything with this kind of power and Japanese is expensive (Lexus RC-F being almost 100k), I don't want an Infinity, nothing from Acura, Honda, Toyota or Mitsubishi, and don't want the BMW Supra for a year round car. From there pretty much all you have left is German and I've priced them all out. If going BMW, I want a convertible, M240i with the options is over 70K. Audi RS3 is missing tons of features and is 75K, S3 just isn't right for me because I'll be missing that sweet RS3 engine, S4/S5 are 70K+ once optioned. I don't like how any of the Mercedes look except the AMG GT (110K+). Kia really did undercut the competition regarding pricing and features. Basically none of the new cars that are close to the Stinger are worth the money they're asking, IMO. I considered a newer Stinger, but since the dealer I was working with used one on the lot to compare to mine (brand new) and the roof rattled in that one too, I don't want it either! G70's have complaints of roof rattles too, so I don't want one of those either, plus I just like the Stinger more.

We get sub zero temperatures for about 6 months a year, so I'll just try to ignore the noises, keep the stereo on, and hopefully once it starts becoming unbearable again there might be some kind of known fix April-May next year. This car is a beast in the winter with AWD, tons of power, heated seats and steering wheel, remote start, so there's that.

I want to pick up a NA or NB Miata next year for summer. That might result in me selling the Stinger on the side and buying a used winter car with the sale equity. Owning all well-used cars means I can't complain if they rattle because they're old! A rattly new car just isn't right, but old cars, it's pretty much to be expected.

 

[edgarciadesign]

I need to bring it in soon anyway, the steering wheel creaking is driving me insane.

Well sad to hear but glad I am not the only one with this issue too! This car squeaks the most of any car I ever owned, and I owned 2 Subarus!

 

[Revvdmedia]

Well sad to hear but glad I am not the only one with this issue too! This car squeaks the most of any car I ever owned, and I owned 2 Subarus!

Ha! A car of consideration was always the STi, but I didn't want one because I knew without a doubt it would become a rattle trap, and look where I am now! lol. Hindsight they say.

 

[edgarciadesign]

Ha! A car of consideration was always the STi, but I didn't want one because I knew without a doubt it would become a rattle trap, and look where I am now! lol. Hindsight they say.

I know, I had 2 WRXs and back then I couldn't care about rattles. They were just part of the car then, then I got an Elantra GT and it was so quiet and nice and just felt high quality, but of course I missed the speed. After renting multiple Optimas on different occasions I was impressed with how well put together they were. I got the Stinger based on that, never thought I would have sunroof rattles, door rattles and steering wheel creaks in one car. :/

 

[Revvdmedia]

I know, I had 2 WRXs and back then I couldn't care about rattles. They were just part of the car then, then I got an Elantra GT and it was so quiet and nice and just felt high quality, but of course I missed the speed. After renting multiple Optimas on different occasions I was impressed with how well put together they were. I got the Stinger based on that, never thought I would have sunroof rattles, door rattles and steering wheel creaks in one car. :/

Absolutely, that's really what grinds me more than anything. Kia marketed the car against BMW, Mercedes and Audi and Porsche, specifically in their press events. Then Kia representatives called the Stinger their "halo car." Kia gave the USA a special Stinger Hotline to specifically deal with Stinger issues. When it comes to service, that's where they are falling short, fixing their issues. I didn't expect preferential treatment, but I fully expected them to take quality concerns more seriously on this car (even more than their other models). I think the dealerships are mostly the blame, but corporate calling some issues "normal" doesn't help their cause. Normal for Kia is not necessary normal for the competition.

TL;DR, the precedent that Kia set on the Stinger is not being upheld by the dealers. I've ranted it before, but this is really the root of my disappointment, expectations not met.