Coil over and sway bar help

[Trymin89]

Hey all, looking for some help with a few issues.

First and foremost, having some issues with my coil overs bottoming out. Bought the coil overs used and had to rebuild them with new pillow balls. While they were being rebuilt, I had the shop put on new Swift 10k 8” springs, thinking they would make the ride a bit more bearable. It feels like Im bottoming out with damn near every bump I hit. We’ve set preload and the car is far from slammed. Looking for any suggestions with what could be done, or if a higher rate spring might be a better option at this point.

Second, since I put the coils on, I had to do Megan Racing camber and toe arms in order to have proper alignment. I also have Whiteline sway bars and end links on the car. The rear sway bar seems to be hitting on the arms (unsure which arm, shop is telling me and I can hear it when hitting bumps hard). Has anyone had this issue with the sway bars hitting any of the control arms?

Appreciate any help with this, and @Volfy I know you will likely have the best response of anyone and look forward to hopefully hearing from you.

 

[Snowwhite]

if the sway bar is hitting anything, chances are it's installed upside down or too far in one direction or the other. Any sways designed for this car shouldn't hit anything, even lowered. I'm not as much of an expert as Volfy, but if you're bottoming out, consider ramping up the spring rate. Did you use the coilovers before you rebuilt and swapped the springs? If so, how bad was the ride before you swapped them out?

I haven't used the whitelines, but thicker sway bars do make one-wheel bumps more noticeable. are you bottoming out on every single bump, or is it something in particular? one way to rule out sway bars is speed bumps. they will hit both sides the same, and rule out the sway bar as the problem. (assuming, of course, you hit the speed bump as close to perpendicular as you can.) I'm not saying blow past a speed bump at 25mph, but even 2-3mph will tell you if you bottom out or not. you need the equivalent of ~170lb/in full size springs on the front to be close to stock. rear stock is much higher, but aftermarket progressive springs really help out there.

spring rates

 

[Volfy]

Hey all, looking for some help with a few issues.

First and foremost, having some issues with my coil overs bottoming out. Bought the coil overs used and had to rebuild them with new pillow balls. While they were being rebuilt, I had the shop put on new Swift 10k 8” springs, thinking they would make the ride a bit more bearable. It feels like Im bottoming out with damn near every bump I hit. We’ve set preload and the car is far from slammed. Looking for any suggestions with what could be done, or if a higher rate spring might be a better option at this point.

You think it's bottoming out (the front?), but is it really? We are running 8" 8k on 2.5T Stinger and 7" 8k on G70. we've yet to "bottom out" the front suspension. If you are running 8" 10k Swift springs, even with the heavier GT1, the likelihood of it actually bottoming out over typical rough roads or even a moderately severe pothole is unlikely. My guess is you are hearing some other clunking that seem harsh to you - and you are interpreting it as "bottoming out". What that might be... no clue. May be some pics posted would help.

Second, since I put the coils on, I had to do Megan Racing camber and toe arms in order to have proper alignment.

The Megan arms are effective tools, but magic pills that fix all suspension ills they are not. Personally, I'd rather not mess with the rear multi link arm lengths, unless it is absolutely necessary. I would rather max out the OEM eccentric bolts first, before I'd consider varying the arm lengths. Any amount of that will F* with the rear suspension geometry, like dynamic camber gain. Obviously, if it is necessary to correct some other worse evils (like overly excessive static negative camber), then so be it. Lesser of two evils. However, I'd rather keep any added evil to an absolute minimum. If your rear suspension has too much negative camber (beyond what OEM eccentric bolt can compensate), you have messed up the geometry. Most often, it's too much lowering. A car needs sufficient suspension travel to work well. Lowering purely for looks is not my thing, so I try to stay out of that end of the pool.

I also have Whiteline sway bars and end links on the car. The rear sway bar seems to be hitting on the arms (unsure which arm, shop is telling me and I can hear it when hitting bumps hard). Has anyone had this issue with the sway bars hitting any of the control arms?

Appreciate any help with this, and @Volfy I know you will likely have the best response of anyone and look forward to hopefully hearing from you.

Again, insufficient info, so no idea what your problem(s) are. Some pics MIGHT help. Chances are... it is related to your other problems. If I have to pull one out of my behind... I'd guess excessive lowering, and/or incorrect installation.

I'm by no means an "expert", and I certainly cannot mind-read across space and time to diagnose your issue remotely - sight unseen. Even with pics... it's iffy. Your shop guy(s) have a far better vantage point.

 

[Trymin89]

Sorry for the late response on everything, work has been crazy. So the sways are definitely installed in the correct orientation, but I could ask them about the left/right shift. I used the same exact setup as @Volfy with the sways and bushings from a previous post.

As for the coils, I dont feel like I have the car dropped to such a low point that it should be acting like this. I still have plenty of wheel gap in the well. Im actually going to be sending the coils back to Riaction to get checked out. They think they might have an issue with the shock itself at this point. Hoping whenever I get them back Ill be able to get it all sorted out. Wish I was able to take some photos of it all, but I havent been able to get under it and wont be able to for a little while. Best I got is a recent photo showing the overall height. Sorry for the ridiculously dirty car (thanks snow and salt)

 

[socalvn]

Your sway bar end links are to long and causing the bar to hit in the rear and white line is notorious for making a clunking sound when they're not secured properly to the sway bar that come loose easily ditch those and try a different brand.
Also on the rear divorced coilover it's important to set the travel correctly or it will bottom out some people have blown out the strut mount this way not realizing what was causing the issue

 

[Volfy]

Also on the rear divorced coilover it's important to set the travel correctly or it will bottom out some people have blown out the strut mount this way not realizing what was causing the issue

This is very true. Riaction's own video on setting the rear ride height doesn't help the matter by not stating all that clear on how exactly the shock's extension adjustment should be matched to the divorced coil's ride height adjustment.

I suspect that this is why Riaction offers that heavy duty top shock mount for the Stinger/G70. The OEM top mount is perfectly adequate for the job... as long as the shock doesn't bottom out premature from being adjusted wrong. With the OEM shock & spring, there is no way this could happen. Even with moderately lowered springs, you're probably okay too, as long as the spring rate is proportionally stiffer to compensate for the reduced suspension travel. With coilovers... all bets are off.

 

[Volfy]

Sorry for the late response on everything, work has been crazy. So the sways are definitely installed in the correct orientation, but I could ask them about the left/right shift. I used the same exact setup as @Volfy with the sways and bushings from a previous post.

As for the coils, I dont feel like I have the car dropped to such a low point that it should be acting like this. I still have plenty of wheel gap in the well. Im actually going to be sending the coils back to Riaction to get checked out. They think they might have an issue with the shock itself at this point. Hoping whenever I get them back Ill be able to get it all sorted out. Wish I was able to take some photos of it all, but I havent been able to get under it and wont be able to for a little while. Best I got is a recent photo showing the overall height. Sorry for the ridiculously dirty car (thanks snow and salt)View attachment 89921View attachment 89922

Okay... your ride height looks very reasonable. Probably pretty close to how we run ours. Certainly nowhere near low enough to cause bottoming out problems.

I think @socalvn might be onto something there, especially if what you feel is the REAR bottoming out, not the front.

 

[Trymin89]

So I actually bought the billet rear replacement mounts since I saw some folks were having some problems with the stock mounts. I tried doing this as correctly as possible, with the exception of buying the coils new. Learned my lesson there. Im about to have them removed tomorrow and sent back to be rebuilt. Im positive its the front set, mainly driver front with how Im feeling the bumps/bottom-outs in succession. I already had the fronts rebuilt once, and Im guessing its going to need it again. I am wondering if the cold weather is affecting the pressures inside the shocks. When I contacted Riaction, they thought it was undergassed or had leaked gas, so not too sure if the negative temps we have been experiencing in Illinois have been negatively affecting the normal operation of the coils. Either way Im looking forward to getting back to stock to get these sent out. Im hoping I can get a good look at the rear end links and sway bar to see where they are hitting. The race shop I had do all the adjustments with has been extending out the end links thinking that might rectify the issue, and while I havent heard it nearly as much as before, I still dont think I should be maxed out on the end links. @Volfy and @socalvn do you have any photos of where your coils are set at height wise? And do either of you know how much shock travel you have to not be bottoming out over some of the bumps? I appreciate all the help and ideas with this.

 

[socalvn]

Ride height would vary depending on preference and setup I'm lowered more than Volfy on stock Reaction Coilovers the car is set at ground to fender well gap at 26 1/4 inches I have never bottomed out and have no issue with ground clearance.
I also have the Billit shock mounts they do tend to allow some noise travel.
Attached is a good video of adjusting ride height and preload, the rears did take a bit of a learning curve.
I have been on coilovers for going on two years now with no issues.
Loose the white line end links there notorious for making noise of being tightened properly they come loose easily even with locker on there, I have God Speed Endlink

 

[Trymin89]

Oh I know the ride height is subjective, was just looking to see how your setup looks so I can compare to what the race shop did with mine. Im sure they did it all appropriately, they specialize in all of this, but figured Id see how far off I am from everyone else thats riding just fine on their setups.

Unfortunately Im only seeing Godspeed links for the front, not rears. I may swap to Super Pros but I havent heard much about them tbh.

 

[Volfy]

Buying coilovers used should be okay, ad long as thr price is low enough to account for needed replacement parts and/or rebuild cost. Our first set of Riaction was bought dirt cheap used. One the front locking collar was seized up, but all it took was some propane torch heat and a larger ring wrench to break it loose. A set of new collars and replacement pillow blocks later, that set was perfectly serviceable. We now used it as a spare set for when our main coilovers need to be sent in for service work.

Low ambient temp definitely has an effect on the coilover, mainly causing the oil viscosity to thicken considerably. What that does is making the shocks feel much stiffer, as the thicker oil tend to resist being squeezed through the tiny passages, compared to when the oil is warm/hot. You may need to adjust damping to compensate. That said, unless you sprung for the 2-way adjustable with remote reservoir, the adjustment only affects rebound damping, not compression.

Dunno how exactly your suspension feels in extremely cold weather, but if it otherwise feels normal at warmer temp, then cold temp oil viscosity might have something to do with the perceived bump harshness. Although, I still doubt that, in and of itself, would make that much of a difference so as to feel like it's bottoming out. I've had my Stinger bottom out once when the Riaction front had the "stock" black springs. Talk about a big old jolt! I thought for sure I'd bent rims and cracked mounts, or some other damage. Turned out everything survived alright, but that was what prompted me to upgrade to Swift springs. Below is the 7" 8k, which has since been moved to the lighter G70. Mine sits on 8" 8k now, which just sit 1" closer to the orange locking collar. I'll have to take some pics of the measured ride height. IIRC, it's roughly 1" lower than stock. As is, it's pretty close to the practical limit of how high the Riaction can be adjusted.

 

[Volfy]

Couldn't find a better pic on my phone, but this should give you a rough idea. 245/40R18 on 18x8.5, so the rolling diameter is a bit smaller that stock tire sizes, so I'm guessing mine sits probably just a fraction lower that what yours looks like (on stock tires sizes?).

 

[socalvn]

As low as I want to go, on the Godspeed End links I didn't buy them for the Kia Stinger just measured the length I wanted

 

[Volfy]

FWIW, all 3 of ours have Whiteline anti-roll bars on stock end links. Two on Riaction, one still on Eibach springs. We've run all three through their proper paces at multiple track days and autoX's. I see no need for aftermarket end links, which are really meant for corner-balancing race cars with the driver's off-center weight onboard, such that the anti-roll bars are statically neutral at race-ready ride height, and weight. For a street car that will see all kinds of varying live loads, such endeavor is rather pointless. Even for cars like ours that see track use occasionally, it's just not worth doing. Nor does it carry any performance benefits.

Stock end links are more than strong enough and have none of the headaches that aftermarket adjustables often bring. I have no problem modding the suspension if there are tangible benefits to be had. If not, I prefer to keep it simple... and dead reliable.

 

[Trymin89]

Yeah I may just go back to the stock end links when I get the coils back, or maybe just in the rears since I have no issues with the fronts as of right now. Ill have to search Godspeed for what they offer for universals too in case I want to go that route.

 

[Snowwhite]

FWIW, all 3 of ours have Whiteline anti-roll bars on stock end links. Two on Riaction, one still on Eibach springs. We've run all three through their proper paces at multiple track days and autoX's. I see no need for aftermarket end links, which are really meant for corner-balancing race cars with the driver's off-center weight onboard, such that the anti-roll bars are statically neutral at race-ready ride height, and weight. For a street car that will see all kinds of varying live loads, such endeavor is rather pointless. Even for cars like ours that see track use occasionally, it's just not worth doing. Nor does it carry any performance benefits.

Stock end links are more than strong enough and have none of the headaches that aftermarket adjustables often bring. I have no problem modding the suspension if there are tangible benefits to be had. If not, I prefer to keep it simple... and dead reliable.

I second Volfy on this. 30+ years wrenching on my cars and I have *NEVER* had an issue with the stock endlinks and fatter swaybars. endlinks are an upsell that's more trouble than they're worth for a daily driver.

 

[Trymin89]

I second Volfy on this. 30+ years wrenching on my cars and I have *NEVER* had an issue with the stock endlinks and fatter swaybars. endlinks are an upsell that's more trouble than they're worth for a daily driver.

Ok cool good to know. I saw somewhere that in order to get better wheel fitment for certain sizes you would need to get them, so figured I would add them in just in case for that reason as well as needing anything with potential suspension tuning. Will likely swap them out if I have some issues later on.

With the stock suspension back on, Im getting no noise from the sway bars or end links anymore, so thats certainly a plus. Also of course getting no major knocks like I was getting with the coils on, so its not anything more major than those. Looking over the coils everything seems correct in terms of spacing/preload and all collars are still locked. Fingers crossed Riaction will be able to figure out what was going on with the driver's side coil and the hard knocking I was getting from it.

 

[Volfy]

I saw somewhere that in order to get better wheel fitment for certain sizes you would need to get them...

If your wheel fitment interferes with correctly installed anti-roll bars on OEM end links, you are doing some seriously way-out-of-whack fitment. In that case, you'd likely have created worse suspension issues to deal with, than just anti-roll bar clearance.