Caster/camber plates

[Wittbrij]

Has anyone found a caster camber plate for the front? A 3 hole plate should be fairly universal.

 

[dragono]

Getting to be an old post but I have the same question.

 

[Hawk853]

No one makes them yet aside from full coilover replacements, but Megan Racing seems to have taken the biggest interest in solving Stinger suspension adjustability.
They make a complete set of adjustable rear linkages to solve geometry issues for the fully slammed air suspension guys.

May be worth reaching out to them to show interest.

 

[samtheracer]

Here in Korea, there is a vendor who sells non-adjustable camber/caster plates that work with stock dampers. The plates provide -1 camber and could provide up to -2 camber in conjuction with lowering springs. The vendor is also an OEM part supplier to Hyundai/Kia, so the quality should be good. Price is roughly $250 in USD.

 

[DeltaV]

@samtheracer, can you provide any contact information other than the spi on the boxes in the photo?

You mention them working with stock dampers…does this include the adjustable system on 2022 GT2 AWD?

Please, please, please?

I gotta do SOMETHING to fix the obscene handling issues inherent in my car. Kia can’t seem to find any ESC fault, so I’m attacking suspension geometry since almost zero front camber is inexcusable.

 

[MerlintheMad]

obscene handling issues

What exactly are these issues?

 

[DeltaV]

@MerlintheMad,

From the “RWD/AWD” thread, my post #29:

“So, this brings up a question. While I’m new to an AWD sport sedan, I do have a lot of experience and a decent understanding of suspension setup in RWD sports cars, including on-track. I’m struggling to determine what’s going on in the following situation and any help would be appreciated…

Highway-to-highway cyclone-style off ramp, 270 degrees, constant radius, a little bit of on-camber, 55mph limit, easy 95mph in a 2005 RX-8 with slightly bumped spring rates, 245/40ZR18 RE71Rs. In my 2022 GT2 AWD on 245/35ZR19 255/35ZR19 PS4S, at 70mph, constant throttle, steady steering I’m getting a very regular (~1 second) swing from slight understeer to nicely tucked front end to slight understeer to nicely tucked front end the whole way around. The understeer is sufficiently evident to raise my eyebrows and contemplate lifting throttle, but it cures before I need to. I should be nowhere near the tires’ limit, I’m in Sport (20/80), nannies are off, pressures are good, only yaw seems to be affected.

Is this torque vectoring trying to guide me around the curve? If so, it’s unnerving. It’s WAY too regular, like the ticking of a clock, to be surface or tire conditions.

Any thoughts?”

My wife’s Sedona, on no-season radials, is faster around this curve than the Stinger.

 

[MerlintheMad]

^^Reread that thread from the point where you joined: I knew I had contributed to it when I read your above cut and paste. So, judging by your latest words, you still haven't gotten to the bottom of what is going on with your consistent step out, over/understeer behavior. Your experience remains a "unicorn" on the forum. I couldn't and still cannot relate it to anything I've felt in my Stinger when trying to corner "spiritedly".

 

[DeltaV]

^^Reread that thread from the point where you joined: I knew I had contributed to it when I read your above cut and paste. So, judging by your latest words, you still haven't gotten to the bottom of what is going on with your consistent step out, over/understeer behavior. Your experience remains a "unicorn" on the forum. I couldn't and still cannot relate it to anything I've felt in my Stinger when trying to corner "spiritedly".

Yes, so I’ve gathered (“unicorn”), and working with Kia hasn’t resulted in any solutions or even any idea how to follow up. At least the dealership service manager confirmed the behavior, so I’m not crazy. (My mother had me tested.) He was running it up the Kia chain of engineers with no success, and was looking for other Stingers (AWD and RWD) for me to test under similar circumstances, but access to such has proven difficult.

But thanks for the reply.

While Kia is trying to figure electronic/ESC things out I’m taking the alternate tack of trying to improve the mechanical grip of the car, hoping that if the sensors don’t detect slip, the ESC won’t unnecessarily jump in.

Since I automatically turn it and traction control off every time I start the car, I might just try to figure out a fuse pull or other way of completely killing ESC. Seems “off” is not off.

 

[GT Elite]

@MerlintheMad,

From the “RWD/AWD” thread, my post #29:

“So, this brings up a question. While I’m new to an AWD sport sedan, I do have a lot of experience and a decent understanding of suspension setup in RWD sports cars, including on-track. I’m struggling to determine what’s going on in the following situation and any help would be appreciated…

Highway-to-highway cyclone-style off ramp, 270 degrees, constant radius, a little bit of on-camber, 55mph limit, easy 95mph in a 2005 RX-8 with slightly bumped spring rates, 245/40ZR18 RE71Rs. In my 2022 GT2 AWD on 245/35ZR19 255/35ZR19 PS4S, at 70mph, constant throttle, steady steering I’m getting a very regular (~1 second) swing from slight understeer to nicely tucked front end to slight understeer to nicely tucked front end the whole way around. The understeer is sufficiently evident to raise my eyebrows and contemplate lifting throttle, but it cures before I need to. I should be nowhere near the tires’ limit, I’m in Sport (20/80), nannies are off, pressures are good, only yaw seems to be affected.

Is this torque vectoring trying to guide me around the curve? If so, it’s unnerving. It’s WAY too regular, like the ticking of a clock, to be surface or tire conditions.

Any thoughts?”

My wife’s Sedona, on no-season radials, is faster around this curve than the Stinger.

Does this behaviour still occur or occur differently in Comfort mode (40/60 torque split)? My thinking is this is not mechanical but software or sensor (accelerometer) related.

 

[DeltaV]

Does this behaviour still occur or occur differently in Comfort mode (40/60 torque split)? My thinking is this is not mechanical but software or sensor (accelerometer) related.

Yes, I’ve tried sport and comfort AWD settings and get the same behavior, as far as I can tell. I thought comfort was 50/50, but I’m not arguing.

Same with Mando suspension settings, though you didn’t ask.

Also ran with Kia’s OBDII recorder, which showed nothing abnormal.

 

[GT Elite]

Yes, I’ve tried sport and comfort AWD settings and get the same behavior, as far as I can tell. I thought comfort was 50/50, but I’m not arguing.

Same with Mando suspension settings, though you didn’t ask.

Also ran with Kia’s OBDII recorder, which showed nothing abnormal.

I’m guessing that this only happens on long constant radius turns and not on turns on residential/surface streets (quicker tighter turns). Also, when it starts to understeer there is no noise from the front tires as one would expect if the car was truly understeering. If this is the case, I would be looking at the electric power steering not holding the correct steering angle and oscillating a bit (loosening up and then tightening back up). Have you noticed any change in the feel of the steering wheel when it happens?

 

[Devin]

Yes, so I’ve gathered (“unicorn”), and working with Kia hasn’t resulted in any solutions or even any idea how to follow up. At least the dealership service manager confirmed the behavior, so I’m not crazy. (My mother had me tested.) He was running it up the Kia chain of engineers with no success, and was looking for other Stingers (AWD and RWD) for me to test under similar circumstances, but access to such has proven difficult.

But thanks for the reply.

While Kia is trying to figure electronic/ESC things out I’m taking the alternate tack of trying to improve the mechanical grip of the car, hoping that if the sensors don’t detect slip, the ESC won’t unnecessarily jump in.

Since I automatically turn it and traction control off every time I start the car, I might just try to figure out a fuse pull or other way of completely killing ESC. Seems “off” is not off.

Can you hit an abandoned parking lot to see if you can break it loose with TC/ESC off?

 

[MerlintheMad]

Have you noticed any change in the feel of the steering wheel when it happens?

I’m getting a very regular (~1 second) swing from slight understeer to nicely tucked front end to slight understeer to nicely tucked front end the whole way around.

 

[General_Vodka]

Since I automatically turn it and traction control off every time I start the car, I might just try to figure out a fuse pull or other way of completely killing ESC. Seems “off” is not off.

This guy lives on the edge. Even with traction fully on I had some pretty hairy moments lol.

 

[GT Elite]

The question relates to if anything can be felt in the steering wheel itself….not what the car is doing.

 

[DeltaV]

I’m guessing that this only happens on long constant radius turns and not on turns on residential/surface streets (quicker tighter turns). Also, when it starts to understeer there is no noise from the front tires as one would expect if the car was truly understeering. If this is the case, I would be looking at the electric power steering not holding the correct steering angle and oscillating a bit (loosening up and then tightening back up). Have you noticed any change in the feel of the steering wheel when it happens?

Yes, this is limited to long sweepers. No noise from the tires and no perceptible change to steering feel, which remains light - even in sport mode.

I have a ton of racetrack experience in decently powered rear-wheel drive cars and I’m used to tossing cars into corners and playing with balance. This is not real understeer. The fronts aren’t sliding, nor should they be anywhere near their limit. The “understeer” here feels mechanical…like the ESC is either applying brake force to the outside rear wheel or power to the inside rear. A loosely bolted steering rack would fall into this category and is a good thing to check, though there isn’t the metallic clunk (either audibly or by feel) I’d expect. Still worth checking. And since there must be a motor on the steering shaft to enable lane keep assist, I’d also suspect that something is detecting oversteer (that isn’t there) and opening up the steering slightly for a count, then undoing that steering, then again, like a pendulum. Definitely feels like an electronic system trying to correct a situation that doesn’t exist.

Thanks for the input!

 

[DeltaV]

Can you hit an abandoned parking lot to see if you can break it loose with TC/ESC off?

Do you mean induce oversteer with the throttle or make it plow deep into understeer?

I have a huge racetrack within a few miles of both me and my Kia dealership, so I’ll try to get some safe space to play…I mean experiment.

 

[DeltaV]

This guy lives on the edge. Even with traction fully on I had some pretty hairy moments lol.

I learned to drive in a TR7 in the snow and graduated to beating up Corvettes, 911s, Vipers, and Ferraris at Sebring, Road Atlanta, Moroso, Homestead, etc., in a 450hp FD RX-7 with no nannies.

Full traction is nice, but not needed. With an AWD Stinger, essentially stock, I expected mild understeer at the limit, which should be minimized with front camber, rear toe, and driving techniques, but some system is tossing understeer (not the front tires sliding, but something barely steering the front axle less than requested in an even, on/off cycle).

I’m now suspicious of the lane keep assist motor on the steering shaft…or a defective/misinstalled steering rack.

 

[GT Elite]

I learned to drive in a TR7 in the snow and graduated to beating up Corvettes, 911s, Vipers, and Ferraris at Sebring, Road Atlanta, Moroso, Homestead, etc., in a 450hp FD RX-7 with no nannies.

Full traction is nice, but not needed. With an AWD Stinger, essentially stock, I expected mild understeer at the limit, which should be minimized with front camber, rear toe, and driving techniques, but some system is tossing understeer (not the front tires sliding, but something barely steering the front axle less than requested in an even, on/off cycle).

I’m now suspicious of the lane keep assist motor on the steering shaft…or a defective/misinstalled steering rack.

The Stinger has electric steering so the steering assist is provided by an electric motor rather than by hydraulics.

One thing to try is to ask your Kia dealer to “re-learn” the electric steering.

The lane keep assist is also a good candidate, especially if there are lines painted on the road. My understanding is that on straight roads, LKA assist can “hunt” between the lines. I believe LKA can be setup to just warn of lane departure without making any steering correction. Maybe try this.