Car and Driver long term update

[Revvdmedia]

"Refinement" equals softer, floatier, bouncier ride. Stinger is a performance car, mated to quiet luxurious comfort. These are opposite traits, equally desirable (at different times): the quest for the perfect car goes on. And then Kia hits the badged brands over the head with a model equal to or better than their offerings, for thousands less.

Yes and no. I would rate my 2015 Mustang GT (non-performance pack) as just as stiff over bumps as the Stinger, but it did a better job soaking them up without bouncing over them. On top of that, the handling was at least as good if not better when measured on the skidpad or lateral G's. With that being said, Kia has come a long way. My 2012 Sportage was unnecessarily stiff without handling to match it. The Stinger is much better, but I can tell there is much room for improvement. It's not horrendous by any stretch though.

 

[Ty Davis]

NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) is not a problem with the powertrain. This is a smooth and quiet engine. The car is pretty quiet too. It has a firmer ride than many of the cars listed above so its depends on what you mean by refinement. Do we want this car to be more luxurious "refined" or do we want better performance. You can't always have both.

As far as the powertrain... This motor is indeed relatively quiet and smooth. Most of the sound is exhaust sound, then a bit of intake, with just the slightest touch of mechanical thrash. It is on par with the 3.6 V6 from GM, or the Chrysler Pentastar 3.6. However, a bit more polish is needed to match the Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus/BMW 6 cylinder motors. However, I will not hold this against the Stinger, as I applaud the chance they took by making the USA Stinger have a bit more exhaust note and with that came a bit of vibration and it is not at all obtrusive.

The Stingers ride is not “firmer” than most of those other cars...
“Bumpier” is more accurate. The Stinger simply allows more bumps, vibrations, and harshness into the passenger cabin. This may seem like firmness, but the ride is also very loose (compared to others) and not well controlled vertically. The front and rear suspensions bounce far too much on anything but smooth pavement and (to me) quickly detracts from the cars sporty quotient. This is particularly true at the rear, but the front is soft too.

Don’t be fooled into thinking you can only have performance or refinement. The best cars (not necessarily the most expensive), can give you BOTH. Especially when equipped with adaptive suspensions. The Stinger does not. Outright grip is fantastic, but body composure is abysmal. This is a lack of ride/handling refinement.

Drive the latest Accord or Camry... regular mundane cars... Those cars ride like luxury cars (better than the Stinger or my last BMW 535i). They glide over the road with minimal disturbance from surface intruding into the cabin. They have smooth silky rides, minimal body roll, and very well damped ride motions. I find that they handle quite well in day to day driving and are only hampered by their FWD on all season tire configuration. Then when you start to compare Stinger to Jaguar XE, CTS, or other truly premium sedans, it falls behind in refinement there too.

I know some people hate to hear anything but praise about the Stinger...
I am not one of these people. I hope the magazines continue to shine a light on the Stingers weak points. Not to trash the car, but to show Kia where improvements are needed. Brakes, rattles, NVH, ride quality, handling composure are all areas the Stinger needs improvement in.
I haven’t seen the magazines make something up, yet. They’ve only reported on actual issues.

Let’s hope Kia steps their game up in these areas for the next gen Stinger. Because the majority of the car is very good, but these shortcomings hold it back. In addition, it is these type of issues that will effect us all when it comes to resale value.

 

[Ty Davis]

Yes and no. I would rate my 2015 Mustang GT (non-performance pack) as just as stiff over bumps as the Stinger, but it did a better job soaking them up without bouncing over them. On top of that, the handling was at least as good if not better when measured on the skidpad or lateral G's. With that being said, Kia has come a long way. My 2012 Sportage was unnecessarily stiff without handling to match it. The Stinger is much better, but I can tell there is much room for improvement. It's not horrendous by any stretch though.

I concur with everything you have said here.

 

[Ty Davis]

"Refinement" equals softer, floatier, bouncier ride. Stinger is a performance car, mated to quiet luxurious comfort. These are opposite traits, equally desirable (at different times): the quest for the perfect car goes on. And then Kia hits the badged brands over the head with a model equal to or better than their offerings, for thousands less.

No Merlin... that’s not refinement, that’s softness.
Refinement is the ability to traverse various road surfaces and conditions, with a feel of solidity/composure/and grace.
Refinement is the feel that the car is hewn from one solid piece of material. A car can be firm and refined, just as it can be soft and unrefined.

To say that the Stinger is a “performance car” is an excuse for nothing.
It is a RWD sedan with great power and good grip. But none of those things mean it can’t be supple, and refined too.

 

[Revvdmedia]

I wonder how much of the Stinger's shortcomings are from cost cutting rather than a lack of engineering. It's quite possible that in order to hit the price point that Kia was aiming for, some things "need to give." While there is likely some truth that a premium is paid for the luxury brands, but even if it were a nominal value, jumping up to an equally equipped and powered German and Japanese competitor carries a 15-20K premium in most cases. Even 10K extra buys a lot of premium materials, better suspension components, etc. It might not be possible for Kia to make the Stinger a lot better than it is with the cost of materials purchased to create it.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I know some people hate to hear anything but praise about the Stinger...

You talkin' 'bout ME?

I enjoy your posts, opinions, experiences. Sort of @CaliSting-like, but less clamorous and insistent.

No Merlin... that’s not refinement, that’s softness.
Refinement is the ability to traverse various road surfaces and conditions, with a feel of solidity/composure/and grace.
Refinement is the feel that the car is hewn from one solid piece of material. A car can be firm and refined, just as it can be soft and unrefined.

To say that the Stinger is a “performance car” is an excuse for nothing.
It is a RWD sedan with great power and good grip. But none of those things mean it can’t be supple, and refined too.

My experience is so very, very limited. You compare with other cars that I barely even recognize as I drive around (not a car guy). All I know is that the Stinger grips like glue, and any movement that accompanies that accomplishment seems natural to the whole Beast, to me. If I were to compare to one of these other models that grips as well but then enfolds the passenger in smoothness that shames the Stinger, then I could relate empirically to what you are saying, I suppose.

 

[Ty Davis]

I wonder how much of the Stinger's shortcomings are from cost cutting rather than a lack of engineering. It's quite possible that in order to hit the price point that Kia was aiming for, some things "need to give." While there is likely some truth that a premium is paid for the luxury brands, but even if it were a nominal value, jumping up to an equally equipped and powered German and Japanese competitor carries a 15-20K premium in most cases. Even 10K extra buys a lot of premium materials, better suspension components, etc. It might not be possible for Kia to make the Stinger a lot better than it is with the cost of materials purchased to create it.

As regards the suspension system, I think Kia hit the mark they were trying to with the Stinger. Kia knows how to build and tune a cheap, but solid suspension, if they want too. They want the Stinger to be bouncy, they designed it that way. They want it a bit bumpy too. All of that is in the way they tuned the shocks. It costs them nothing to use firmer or softer damping.

I think that’s why it is important that Kia get feedback on the suspension and car as a whole. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the vehicle, but some of the tuning choices aren’t very well thought out.

For a minimum of effort and cost, Kia could transform this car.
Notice, how Kia didn’t announce any changes to the 2020 GTS ride and handling. They are fine with the ride and handling where it is.

 

[MerlintheMad]

They are fine with the ride and handling where it is.

So am I. Why would I give Kia "fix this" feedback?

 

[Ty Davis]

You talkin' 'bout ME?

I enjoy your posts, opinions, experiences. Sort of @CaliSting-like, but less clamorous and insistent.


My experience is so very, very limited. You compare with other cars that I barely even recognize as I drive around (not a car guy). All I know is that the Stinger grips like glue, and any movement that accompanies that accomplishment seems natural to the whole Beast, to me. If I were to compare to one of these other models that grips as well but then enfolds the passenger in smoothness that shames the Stinger, then I could relate empirically to what you are saying, I suppose.

I was not talking *about you*, but must be honest and say I thought *of you* as I typed that. I know you do like to hear the positive.


And yes, there are cars that are both notably smoother and at least as grippy too.
You say you haven’t driven many other cars. I have. I can say without a doubt the Stingers ride quality is average at best. It’s body control is certainly below average. It’s grip better than average...
Again, neither the members of this forum (nor the automotive press) are fabricating all of the ride handling related quibbles that repeatedly surface.

 

[Ty Davis]

So am I. Why would I give Kia "fix this" feedback?

Because OEMs need to know when their concept doesn’t meet with consumer expectations.

But this does not apply to you. You are satisfied 100%

The countless members here that expect more and just about all of the
Mainstream Automotive press is who need to be providing feedback on what can be improved.

 

[Revvdmedia]

I feel inclined to comment that since the weather has been better lately I have actually been using sport mode. All winter I have typically been driving with the suspension in comfort. With that said, I do find the bounciness is pronounced in comfort, but in sport, there feels to be better suspension control. Mine is definitely firmer in sport, especially over bumps and frost heaves, but definitely more well controlled. IMO, it is stiffer than it should be considering the handling figures, but it is also a heavy car tuned for "comfort."

 

[Ty Davis]

I feel inclined to comment that since the weather has been better lately I have actually been using sport mode. All winter I have typically been driving with the suspension in comfort. With that said, I do find the bounciness is pronounced in comfort, but in sport, there feels to be better suspension control. Mine is definitely firmer in sport, especially over bumps and frost heaves, but definitely more well controlled. IMO, it is stiffer than it should be considering the handling figures, but it is also a heavy car tuned for "comfort."

Yes, Sport mode works wonders for reducing the bounce of the rear suspension. I drive in Sport Suspension mode, for that alone. Sadly though, plenty of bounce both front and rear remain.

As a plus though, on the streets here, the actual harshness of Sport vs Comfort mode are darn near indistinguishable. Unlike other cars, where sport mode can ruin the ride quality, on the Stinger, Sport mode just firms up the rear a bit, the front a touch, and reduces body roll a bit. I’ve found no downside to sport mode.

This is version 1.0 of Stinger... I’m hopeful the redesigned version will be a significant upgrade when it arrives.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Again, neither the members of this forum (nor the automotive press) are fabricating all of the ride handling related quibbles that repeatedly surface.

But the OP, the ongoing Long Term review, doesn't say anything about what you are describing. And I wasn't critiquing anything said about ride quality or handling. I am annoyed by this:

"Not a single person is polarized by this car. It stirs almost nothing from anyone. The empty pages of its logbook at 24,075 miles tell a hard-to-ignore story about the Stinger's depth of character. And the existing comments range from modest compliments to tepid criticism. Some editors call the Stinger boring. Others accuse it of looking sportier than it really is—an assessment, which, though accurate, fails to paint a complete picture of the Kia's broad scope of talents. But most editors just piled on the miles without feeling compelled to say anything at all. So if the Stinger has a great sin, it's that of failing to trigger any emotion among its constituents."

Followed up by this:

"In our last update, at just over 24,000 miles, we pointed out that the Kia Stinger, though reliable and quick, lacked the inspirational goulash to trigger any substantive commentary. Despite an engine capable of producing shocking acceleration, the $48,400 sedan rarely managed to transform the time between work and home into anything more than a gray area for thought."

So what pushes my buttons isn't criticism of the Stinger's chassis tuning, etc. It is this guy's assertion that "[nobody] is polarized by this car. … [it] fails to trigger any emotion." He didn't get aggravated at what is subsequently being talked about on this resulting thread. He just doesn't notice anything about the Stinger, at all, as a car. "Boring." Really? How is that in any way echoing the reviews from Aus to the USA? Not even a surprisingly fun ride? Nope. Nothing but "a gray area of thought". WTH?!

Almost nobody on this forum has said anything remotely that dismissive about the Stinger. So, "not a single person" working for Car and Driver thinks anything enthusiastic about the Stinger? This writer is either dismissive of other's opinions or he lives in a bubble.

 

[Ty Davis]

But the OP, the ongoing Long Term review, doesn't say anything about what you are describing. And I wasn't critiquing anything said about ride quality or handling. I am annoyed by this:

"Not a single person is polarized by this car. It stirs almost nothing from anyone. The empty pages of its logbook at 24,075 miles tell a hard-to-ignore story about the Stinger's depth of character. And the existing comments range from modest compliments to tepid criticism. Some editors call the Stinger boring. Others accuse it of looking sportier than it really is—an assessment, which, though accurate, fails to paint a complete picture of the Kia's broad scope of talents. But most editors just piled on the miles without feeling compelled to say anything at all. So if the Stinger has a great sin, it's that of failing to trigger any emotion among its constituents."

Followed up by this:

"In our last update, at just over 24,000 miles, we pointed out that the Kia Stinger, though reliable and quick, lacked the inspirational goulash to trigger any substantive commentary. Despite an engine capable of producing shocking acceleration, the $48,400 sedan rarely managed to transform the time between work and home into anything more than a gray area for thought."

So what pushes my buttons isn't criticism of the Stinger's chassis tuning, etc. It is this guy's assertion that "[nobody] is polarized by this car. … [it] fails to trigger any emotion." He didn't get aggravated at what is subsequently being talked about on this resulting thread. He just doesn't notice anything about the Stinger, at all, as a car. "Boring." Really? How is that in any way echoing the reviews from Aus to the USA? Not even a surprisingly fun ride? Nope. Nothing but "a gray area of thought". WTH?!

Almost nobody on this forum has said anything remotely that dismissive about the Stinger. So, "not a single person" working for Car and Driver thinks anything enthusiastic about the Stinger? This writer is either dismissive of other's opinions or he lives in a bubble.

You are correct, in that this particular long term wrap up doesn’t mention it specifically. However, you will find it referenced in Car and Drivers individual reviews, Motor Trend Road Tests, Road and Track Rosd Tests, and most other credible reviews from the press.

I bring up the Stingers suspension behavior here, because I think it contributes almost wholely to Car and Drivers assertation that the Stingers driving experience is less than memorable.

They addressed it in previous issues, and it’s addressed here on the forum in multiple multi-page threads. The Stinger suspension calibration needs work. As an avid car enthusiast, I can attest to the fact that a soggy, loosely controlled suspension makes it VERY hard for a car to leave a favorable impression (on a car enthusiast).

Car and Driver is written from the perspective of the enthusiast. So people with more mainstream tastes may not agree. Car and Driver did not pinpoint n the article why their Stinger failed to stir their soul...

But as an enthusiast myself, with the same car, I can only imagine the above is the reason. Check the Stinger facts...
Great Steering
Great Acceleration
Great Looks
Great features
Decent Audio
Sporty Exhaust
Good Throttle Response
Good Brake Response

Car and Driver didn’t have to spell it out for me. So know what they are looking for in a car, as I look for the most of the same things. Accordingly, even without them saying it, I know the ride/handling mix is what left them cold towards our car.

There’s literally not much more to complain about in this car. Everything is on point except NVH and ride/handling.

 

[Ty Davis]

Duplicate.

 

[MerlintheMad]

There’s literally not much more to complain about in this car. Everything is on point except NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) and ride/handling.

That says a lot about my satisfaction: I find the lack of NVH far superior to anything I've been driving my whole life; and the ride/handling are even more dramatically superior to anything I've ever driven. Just don't get me in a better car, and I won't ever know what I'm missing, and I'll stay satisfied!

 

[Ty Davis]

That says a lot about my satisfaction: I find the NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) far superior to anything I've been driving my whole life; and the ride/handling are even more dramatically superior to anything I've ever driven. Just don't get me in a better car, and I won't every know what I'm missing, and I'll stay satisfied!

Yes.
However...
That is not gonna help our Stingers win 1st place in Magazine comparos or in this case Long Term Wrap ups...

 

[MerlintheMad]

Yes.
However...
That is not gonna help our Stingers win 1st place in Magazine comparos or in this case Long Term Wrap ups...

Kia reads the reviews and comparisons. I'm not concerned about winning anything, since I win every time I get in this car.

 

[Ty Davis]

Kia reads the reviews and comparisons. I'm not concerned about winning anything, since I win every time I get in this car.

In a post above, you described being “annoyed” and having your “buttons pushed” by parts of Car and Drivers Long Term write up...

I’m just saying when the car gets better, reviews will improve too.

 

[itguy61]

Well be thankful that the aftermarket is not putting out products that do not cost that much and make the car much better. For example, it seems that those that do the entire Eibach kit, just springs, or sway bars state that it improves the car considerably. It seem like the whole kit can be purchased and installed pretty affordably is nice.

And I do believe the things we are commenting here are due to building this to a price point.

I have read the other long term reviews out there and they are pretty positive, especially considering the value this car presents. Don't know why Car and Driver got this burr under their saddle.