AWD or RWD

[itguy61]

I believe it would be enough of a difference to go back again. Off topic here but these things are akin to losing 100 lbs of weight on a human. Makes the car feel so much more agile and athletic in the handling department. Was just curious. Oh and if you like your car stock you will love it with the sways.

It would be awesome to see a comparison of doing the dragons tail without and with sway bars.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Nope. Driven it enough on those roads and also an autocross event to know I don't need to modify the suspension.

You Randy Pobst, you. I believe a really good/experienced driver can get everything out of the Stinger. Lesser mortals, we just feel accomplished getting around corners fast without doing something stupid.

 

[eflyguy]

You Randy Pobst, you. I believe a really good/experienced driver can get everything out of the Stinger. Lesser mortals, we just feel accomplished getting around corners fast without doing something stupid.

There are very few places you can "get everything" out of a Stinger. If I was tracking it (or autocross) frequently and cared about 10ths, I might have a different opinion. We have some great roads even around metro Atlanta, and I rarely take it out of comfort. The only times I can think of were when some asshat was tailgating me to push me to go faster, and then I'd see them vanish behind me thru the next corner or two. I actually think that behavior may have resulted in a wreck behind me one time, but I was too busy recovering from a minor slide/drift to pay much attention to what was going on behind me.

The (suspension) change between Sport and other modes is dramatic, even my (21y.o.) daughter was astounded by how differently it handled when we played with that up in the hills. This car is extremely well "sorted" for my needs. Perhaps I own a unicorn, but I am perfectly happy with it for the kind of roads I enjoy. I am not trying to claim I'm some awesome driver but I have done race schools (Skip Barber) and tracked supercars, and know how to drive.

 

[MerlintheMad]

There are very few places you can "get everything" out of a Stinger. If I was tracking it (or autocross) frequently and cared about 10ths, I might have a different opinion.

I didn't mean modding to get everything possible out of the platform. I meant, like Randy Pobst, taking a stock Stinger and getting the most out of it doing a few laps.

I am not trying to claim I'm some awesome driver but I have done race schools (Skip Barber) and tracked supercars, and know how to drive.

Right there, you've already left the realm of "mere mortals". How many people driving around in hot cars, making spectacles of themselves, have done any racing school work, much less "tracked supercars"? So many wannabes!

 

[eflyguy]

It only takes money.

For her 21st b'day, my daughter wanted to do Skip Barber - they've closed it down in Atlanta, so we're exploring options. Might do an open wheel school at Laguna Seca next year.

 

[Manaz]

MSRP on the GTS is very reasonable. The fancy "drift" capable drive train doesn't seem to increase the price much if at all above AWD cost.

There's no technical reason why it would, other than the addition of the LSD rear diff centre - the AWD system is already capable of varying power front to rear - "drift mode" may be the switched equivalent of removing the AWD fuse as others have already done to turn an AWD Stinger into RWD.

 

[MerlintheMad]

It only takes money.

For her 21st b'day, my daughter wanted to do Skip Barber - they've closed it down in Atlanta, so we're exploring options. Might do an open wheel school at Laguna Seca next year.

Heh, that's an understatement. Money first of all isn't in plentiful supply for most people. Then there's the time. Laguna Seca? Clear across the continent? It's "only" ten hours from here, and I have never even entertained the thought of going to racing school there. Open wheel school sounds like a positive blast.

 

[Helo58]

That doesnt sound right, I dont think they can call it torque vectoring if that was the case. The whole point of torque vectoring is to be able to vary the power delivered to each wheel independently. Considering the stingers system is brake based, if the car was hitting both front brakes at the same time or rear brakes at the same time, that would make for a very undesirable handling effect mid corner.

Yes, you are correct. My comment was in terms of the AWD system itself. The AWD system will vary power front to rear, not side to side. The torque vectoring system in the Stinger is brake based and compliments the AWD system to limit understeer. Some more advanced systems use active or e-differentials for side to side torque allotment rather than the brakes. It was my intention to note this distinction in the torque vectoring method on the Stinger.

 

[Manaz]

e-differentials

E-differential is code for using the brakes.

 

[Helo58]

E-differential is code for using the brakes.

I think that there may be some overlap in terminology. The e-differential I am referring to is not brake based nor does it use the brakes to function.

 

[Manaz]

Which cars have actually implemented that?

 

[Helo58]

Which cars have actually implemented that?

Dana, GKN, ZF and Eaton make similar devices used by companies like Lexus, Mercedes, and Ford to name a few. I know that the feature is optional on the Lexus RCF and GSF.
What a Difference Lexus Torque Vectoring Differential Makes – ClubLexus

 

[Manaz]

Dana and Eaton make similar devices used by companies like Lexus, Mercedes, and Ford to name a few. On the Lexus RCF, the feature is optional.

Interesting, and good to know.

On VW group vehicles as an example, e-diff has absolutely been a brake-activated thing, braking the spinning wheel rather than actually being a differential-style device.

 

[itguy61]

There have been comments about the Audi Quattro system being a haldex type system. That is incorrect for most of their cars as the cars with longitudinally mounted engines do not use a haldex system. Those cars split front rear about 50/50 under normal non slip conditions. VW's and Audis with transverse mounted engines use the haldex system which is not that great of a system as it is basically fwd most of the time.

 

[Manaz]

There have been comments about the Audi Quattro system being a haldex type system. That is incorrect for most of their cars as the cars with longitudinally mounted engines do not use a haldex system. Those cars split front rear about 50/50 under normal non slip conditions. VW's and Audis with transverse mounted engines use the haldex system which is not that great of a system as it is basically fwd most of the time.

You are right, this is correct, I was thinking of the A3/Golf/TT/etc cars, and forgot the A4 and above have their engines mounted longitudinally (oddly for a longitudinal engine mount, they come as FWD in base models - the engine hangs WAY out in front of the front axle, compounding the "lead-tipped arrow" nature of FWD cars). I suspect this may be the reason the AWD A4 doesn't feel that it handles well (or at least one of the reasons).

 

[itguy61]

Yep those cars are based on the same platform, I think they are all MBQ platform cars. And that is the problem with almost all their cars in that they are FWD cars with AWD added on. Too front heavy. I had a 2000 A4 2.8 Quattro. I loved that car. But is is my second favorite car, my Stinger is numero uno.

 

[Manaz]

I had the same engine in my Bora I suspect - 2.8L narrow angle V6 - did the Audis in the US get the 24v version, or only the 12v that the Mk3 Golf/Jetta got?

A beautiful engine either way (the 24v was smoother IMHO, with the coil on plug ignition too), has a lovely note to it, and a beautifully clean run from idle to redline that built so smoothly and elegantly.

I love forced induction (and it's getting better in this regard), but the linear nature of a good NA engine is intoxicating...

 

[Helo58]

I love forced induction (and it's getting better in this regard), but the linear nature of a good NA engine is intoxicating...

I feel the same way. The Lexus 2UR-GSE (NA 5.0 V8) was very linear and the throttle response was amazingly quick. It didn't take long for me to get used to the twin-turbo push though. Love my Stinger!

 

[Manaz]

I feel the same way. The Lexus 2UR-GSE (NA 5.0 V8) was very linear and the throttle response was amazingly quick. It didn't take long for me to get used to the twin-turbo push though. Love my Stinger!

I was fortunate enough to drive the RCF on a track when it was released in Australia, and to drive it back-to-back with the ISF.

Yes, it was a beautiful engine. It was interesting how differently the ISF and RCF coped with it though - the ISF felt like the chassis was at its ragged edge, whereas the RCF felt like it was well within it's capabilities.

 

[Helo58]

It is funny how feel works. In Car and Driver's "Lightning Lap" competition (VIR Grand Course 4.1 miles), the ISF was actually faster around the track (3:05.4) than the newer RCF (3:05.8) and GSF (3:05.9). All within range of each other, but not the clear victory you would expect from a newer car with more horsepower. Many ISF owners (myself included) were disappointed in the RCF debut so much so that it is, in part, the reason I am an owner of a RWD Stinger. They added weight and "marketing" horsepower to the RCF when everyone thought it was going to be a legitimate M4 competitor. It wasn't. Lexus stayed truer to their luxury ethos rather than the performance aspect of the car.