Am I missing something??

[Schroedes]

Had my jb4 in for a week now. Been playing around with different fuels etc and trying to fully understand these logs. Today I pulled my step 1 Densos out, that I installed about 6 weeks ago. I wanted to check the gap etc. Based on the plugs looks like the motor had been running rich. I'm guessing from before I installed the jb4. So I cleaned em up and tightened the gap to .022. as I've been a little suspicious about my timing over the last week. Did these runs today on map 1 and 2. I did map 3 yesterday before the plug pull.. the fuel in there is about half 94 and half 91. Temp about 60 degrees, nice and dry.. my question is , as far as the timing, the numbers I see, are they degrees being advanced or pulled, and what exactly is it that I wanna see?? 0s across the board or matching numbers through each cylinder?? I've seen logs on here that Terry says are good with huge amounts of timing, just similar in each cylinder.. then I've seen other logs where people say that's real bad timing etc and it needs to be zero.. I'm trying to determine if I can comfortably bump up to map 3 and 4 with some E85, and I'm also trying to determine if I should get rid of these step 1 Densos and try the HKS. I didn't think I would have timing variation on map 1 as well with the fuel I have so I'm a little confused as to why I am.. plugs?, fuel? Or is what I'm seeing fine?? Any experts out there to clarify this more for me? Thanks

 

[Schroedes]

Here's a map 3 pull from last night which I thought looked pretty good.. mostly 94 octane

 

[StingertimeNC]

your map 2 logs look great. I always just call it timing deviation, but I think it's timing being pulled. (not an expert) Anything 2.3 or less is fine.
Be sure to do say 20 mph to 90 mph or more when logging. also, paddle shift around 5800 rpm (it will actually shift around 6000 if you pull the paddle at 5800.) that should keep the boost curve nice and flat. Your map 3 pull is acceptable, just not quite as clean as map 2. you probably won't feel a difference between map 2 and 3 on daily drive. I suspect you should just keep the 94 octane in there and daily map 2. with a few gallons of e85, you would probably see a super clean map 3 as well. 0's and .8's are great! I think the plugs are working great.

 

[Schroedes]

your map 2 logs look great. I always just call it timing deviation, but I think it's timing being pulled. (not an expert) Anything 2.3 or less is fine.
Be sure to do say 20 mph to 90 mph or more when logging. also, paddle shift around 5800 rpm (it will actually shift around 6000 if you pull the paddle at 5800.) that should keep the boost curve nice and flat. Your map 3 pull is acceptable, just not quite as clean as map 2. you probably won't feel a difference between map 2 and 3 on daily drive. I suspect you should just keep the 94 octane in there and daily map 2. with a few gallons of e85, you would probably see a super clean map 3 as well. 0's and .8's are great! I think the plugs are working great.

Ya Ive wondered if that 94 octane is true 94. I'm gonna try it with E85.. I would like to keep the plugs, but if there's any benefit with HKS I would go that route. So your saying the deviation between cylinders is what to look for on top of too much timing being pulled?? I don't get why some people would have numbers in the 20s and 30s but the cylinders match and some said that was fine? I would think that there's always gonna be some small timing adjustments running this much boost etc you just wanna see deviations of 3.5 or less between cylinders?? OR is it 2.3?? Lol..

 

[StingertimeNC]

Assuming you are running a current firmware version on JB4, Ign 2-6 should not be showing raw timing, but timing deviation. Smaller numbers are better. Terry is the man, so pull a good log and email it to him for his blessing. If the car feels smooth and you see numbers 2.3 or less, you should be good. Terry can comment on other parameters as well if he sees something off. If you are going to try 94 octane with a few gallons of e85, pull a map 2 and a map 3 log and send to Terry for review. post them up of course so we can all see how they look.

 

[Schroedes]

Assuming you are running a current firmware version on JB4, Ign 2-6 should not be showing raw timing, but timing deviation. Smaller numbers are better. Terry is the man, so pull a good log and email it to him for his blessing. If the car feels smooth and you see numbers 2.3 or less, you should be good. Terry can comment on other parameters as well if he sees something off. If you are going to try 94 octane with a few gallons of e85, pull a map 2 and a map 3 log and send to Terry for review. post them up of course so we can all see how they look.

That makes more sense, I would imagine there will always be some deviation so looking for consistent 0s is wishful thinking..I will get some more logs though.. I have noticed what almost feels like little surges while accelerating, usually in 1st or 2nd gear.. could be the nature of the car idk.. any weight behind the idea that it's bad to change maps too often?? Thanks for your input

 

[AwesumPurson]

I am new to Stingers but I once raced turbo DSMs (Talon, Eclipse, Laser). The key for pushing the limit for them was to watch for when the ECU started to pull timing. This was it's go to move if anything started to show up on the knock sensor.

My assumption so far looking at logs is the Stinger is the same. I have a log for maps 0, 1 and 2. Maps 0 and 1 keep ing2-6 at zero. Map 2 ing2-6 start kicking up. This is inline with my expectations for my mods, gas and way I think the ECU is working.

So I am thinking it's not just playing around fine tuning, it's running damage control due to the real knock it is starting to see. But I am not 100% certain. It would be more clear if we had a stock target ign to compare to ign1-6. Because what if the ECU is pulling degrees from all including ign1? We won't see that in deviations from ign1.

However, under normal conditions ign2-6 stay at 0. So > 0 values seem to still indicate the ECU is initiating some level of damage control under the conditions I would expect it to on my 3 runs.

I am willing to accept a little may be okay, but not more and not consistent.

If someone knows the ECU better and can set me straight please do.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I think that is basically correct. I’ve seem
Some say if you have all zeros, then you are leaving a bit of performance in the table though. Hopefully Terry will chime in.

 

[Terry@BMS]

The gas pedal is not 100% so it's hard to evaluate for knock but so far timing values here seem fine on map2 and pump gas.

 

[Schroedes]

The gas pedal is not 100% so it's hard to evaluate for knock but so far timing values here seem fine on map2 and pump gas.

Why is it that my pedal is not showing 100%?? I assure you it's mashed

 

[Schroedes]

The gas pedal is not 100% so it's hard to evaluate for knock but so far timing values here seem fine on map2 and pump gas.

Is there a acceptable amou t of timing being pulled on a consistent basis with no worries of damage?? Or should we all be shooting for zero. It all seems kind of vague

 

[Terry@BMS]

Why is it that my pedal is not showing 100%?? I assure you it's mashed

Maybe something is blocking your gas pedal like a floor mat? Put pedal on the app as a gauge and monitor it as you floor the car.

 

[Terry@BMS]

Is there a acceptable amou t of timing being pulled on a consistent basis with no worries of damage?? Or should we all be shooting for zero. It all seems kind of vague

If you shoot for zero timing corrections you'll end up leaving a lot of power on the table. On pump fuels even stock tuning has frequent corrections.

The higher you try to push boost the more of a concern it becomes. A few cylinders jumping up to 3 and back down to 0 or 1 isn't much of an issue. All cylinders sitting on 3-6 would be a little more concerning, but might be normal, for lower grade fuel like 91 octane.

 

[Schroedes]

If you shoot for zero timing corrections you'll end up leaving a lot of power on the table. On pump fuels even stock tuning has frequent corrections.

The higher you try to push boost the more of a concern it becomes. A few cylinders jumping up to 3 and back down to 0 or 1 isn't much of an issue. All cylinders sitting on 3-6 would be a little more concerning, but might be normal, for lower grade fuel like 91 octane.

Thanks for the clarification Terry, I'll double check the pedal as I do have weathertech mats, could be blocking it. Never thought of that

 

[Schroedes]

Here's my 6 week old plug. Obviously running rich. Jb4 has been in a week and from what I know runs the car leaner or an I missing something? I cleaned em up and tightened the gap. Thanks for the info gentleman

 

[Terry@BMS]

Plug looks normal from that angle. When we're looking for plug wear you want a close up of the tip. That is what deforms over time.

If it was running rich (which isn't really possible with the platform due to the wideband control), or if the car had an oil control issue (like lacking an OCC over time), the white porcelin would be covered in dark black soot.

 

[Schroedes]

Plug looks normal from that angle. When we're looking for plug wear you want a close up of the tip. That is what deforms over time.

If it was running rich (which isn't really possible with the platform due to the wideband control), or if the car had an oil control issue (like lacking an OCC over time), the white porcelin would be covered in dark black soot.

I thought the dark carbonization was a sign of running rich. Again thanks for the clarification

 

[StingertimeNC]

"If you shoot for zero timing corrections you'll end up leaving a lot of power on the table. On pump fuels even stock tuning has frequent corrections." thanks Terry. Knew I heard you say this before.

 

[xRagee23]

"If you shoot for zero timing corrections you'll end up leaving a lot of power on the table. On pump fuels even stock tuning has frequent corrections." thanks Terry. Knew I heard you say this before.

It’s weird that your pedal is showing 50-80% while your throttle is 99. Looks like your are flooring it but logs say you aren’t.

 

[Schroedes]

It’s weird that your pedal is showing 50-80% while your throttle is 99. Looks like your are flooring it but logs say you aren’t.

Ya I've been wondering why. Pedal doesn't look obstructed in any way, I'm not sure how to remedy the situation or if it really matters