3.3T New Install Log Check - Map 1

[ChaneRZ]

Exxon is pretty good. Use up your current tank all the way to near empty and then refuel.

 

[Travis Wills]

Thanks everyone for all the help! I thought I was picking good fuel. We really have two main fuel suppliers in town, Holiday and Casey's. I try to only go to Holiday stations that have a dedicated pump for 91 that also doesnt have any ethanol. A lot of our stations have 91 with up to 10% ethanol. I will try to fill at a different Holiday for the next tank. I am at over a half tank left right now.

I installed my BMS intakes yesterday and did a few more data logs. It is still pulling timing, but this time it doesnt seem to be getting quite as high consistently. So the only change is just adding intakes. I might try disconnecting the battery today. I will post on our local car group page on FB to see if there is anywhere that has generally better quality fuel. I have never trusted Costco, but they do have 92 in town here.

Is timing the main thing we want to look at in these logs?

Definitely disconnect the battery for about 10 minutes with the doors locked and the key outside of range. I am not saying that will fix your problems. However, it can't hurt.

The timing is so bad with what you have right now that you really need to clear as much gas as possible out of that tank, refill it with good gas, reset the ECU and then hope that you don't have any other issues.

I had serious timing pulls like you have and still set my fastest times. However, I put some E85 in the tank with 93 Octane and reset the ECU. My timings instantly went to zero corrections and have been close to that the entire time now. Do they have E85 in your area?

 

[Seef824]

Definitely disconnect the battery for about 10 minutes with the doors locked and the key outside of range. I am not saying that will fix your problems. However, it can't hurt.

The timing is so bad with what you have right now that you really need to clear as much gas as possible out of that tank, refill it with good gas, reset the ECU and then hope that you don't have any other issues.

I had serious timing pulls like you have and still set my fastest times. However, I put some E85 in the tank with 93 Octane and reset the ECU. My timings instantly went to zero corrections and have been close to that the entire time now. Do they have E85 in your area?

I do have E85 at a few different places around town. I had not really thought much of doing a blend because I wasnt sure I wanted to mess with the mixtures.

Would you recommend disconnecting the battery with this tank of gas? or wait it out and disconnect when I refill?

 

[runner1]

Just drive it rmpty

 

[Travis Wills]

I do have E85 at a few different places around town. I had not really thought much of doing a blend because I wasnt sure I wanted to mess with the mixtures.

Would you recommend disconnecting the battery with this tank of gas? or wait it out and disconnect when I refill?

Personally, I don't think it really ever hurts to reset the ECU. It may not help but I don't see how it can hurt.

That being said. If you do have a bad tank of gas in there I wouldn't run it hard at all. Put it in ECO mode and just cruise the rest of the gas out of that tank. Get it down to as close to zero as you are comfortable with and then refill it with any top tier gas. I use Costco or Shell. Definitely reset the ECU if you are confident you have good gas, good plugs, and everything else is checking out. That gives the ECU a chance to relearn how to deal with better circumstances.

 

[monusa]

Personally, I don't think it really ever hurts to reset the ECU. It may not help but I don't see how it can hurt.

Not so sure about the ECU reset as it's reason for the timing fluctuations is that the octane level is so crappy that it is trying to compensate as best as it can to prevent knock (ENGINE KILLER). Think about it....resetting the ECU is not going to somehow modify the programming so once the engine runs for a bit and you don't have better gas, guess what??? The ECU is going to refer to the same table values for that octane and jerk timing all over again.......remember, the ECU is getting it's info from the exhaust via O2 sensors. Disconnecting battery is not going to re-train the O2 sensors......

If it were my vehicle, knowing what I know now, I would put the jb4 to map 0 until I had a chance to run out the crap gas and get a fresh tank of better quality. run that through and on the next tank of GOOD gas, switch jb4 to map1, take a log or two and critique results before going any further.

I have had an engine replaced and although it was covered under warranty, not a fun situation.

Just my thoughts......

 

[Seef824]

Not so sure about the ECU reset as it's reason for the timing fluctuations is that the octane level is so crappy that it is trying to compensate as best as it can to prevent knock (ENGINE KILLER). Think about it....resetting the ECU is not going to somehow modify the programming so once the engine runs for a bit and you don't have better gas, guess what??? The ECU is going to refer to the same table values for that octane and jerk timing all over again.......remember, the ECU is getting it's info from the exhaust via O2 sensors. Disconnecting battery is not going to re-train the O2 sensors......

If it were my vehicle, knowing what I know now, I would put the jb4 to map 0 until I had a chance to run out the crap gas and get a fresh tank of better quality. run that through and on the next tank of GOOD gas, switch jb4 to map1, take a log or two and critique results before going any further.

I have had an engine replaced and although it was covered under warranty, not a fun situation.

Just my thoughts......

I appreciate your perspective monusa. I have not reset the ECU, and I agree with your thoughts on the learning aspect. It is hard because the car does feel stronger now with map 1, so it feels like it is working.
Running map 0 is easy enough to do for the last 3/4 of a tank. It makes me wonder though how the car handles bad fuel on stock tune. I have never really went searching for good fuel because I never had a need to. I always make sure to get 91 (highest we have) and try to avoid ethanol whenever possible. Now that I am aware of the timing, driving "hard" on map 0 would be the same as I would have done if I never had a log or JB4.

I guess a question for you guys is, do you check your logs every time you fill up? How do I know when I can trust the car and not have to check every time I drive? I am used to having a full ECU flash (APR with my Golf R and E-tune through Accessport on my WRX). Both of those were a set and forget. In the WRX, I would continually check the gauges on the Accessport, but I never had an issue.

 

[ChaneRZ]

How was your timing on your previous cars and tunes with your 91 gas?

 

[Seef824]

I never had to look at timing before. I kept an eye on feedback knock and fine knock learn on my WRX, but timing was not a concern my tuner said to actively monitor. He was one of the most well known and respected tuners for the platform. I am assuming since it was a full ECU tune he had more control over ignition.

His recommendation was to watch knock as that was usually indicative of fuel or other problems. And I never had any knock issues.

This holiday station I filled up at is a new station though. I never filled up my WRX there.

 

[monusa]

I appreciate your perspective monusa. I have not reset the ECU, and I agree with your thoughts on the learning aspect. It is hard because the car does feel stronger now with map 1, so it feels like it is working.

Bad gas may cause rough idle/sputtering when stock. The JB4 is an awesome device and when all aspects are in sync (plugs, gas/octane level, any other mods) it makes for a pretty fun driving experience on the Stinger.

I will be the first to admit that although I knew about the concept of tuning, I had never tuned a vehicle and was sort of a dumb-ass with regards to EFI tuning. My haste to turn my Stinger into a "boulevard bully" caused a lot of headache so when I offer info, I am truly speaking from experience (apologize if any comments come across as condescending). Mother's favorite saying growing up: 'hard head will make a soft a$$"......lol

Trust the guys at Burger MS with regards to their recommendations for running different maps on the jb4. A few of the "top shelf" Stinger guys here like @ChaneRZ , are also pretty darn good at the info they offer.....

Good luck with the ride and happy jb4-ing.......

 

[Travis Wills]

Not so sure about the ECU reset as it's reason for the timing fluctuations is that the octane level is so crappy that it is trying to compensate as best as it can to prevent knock (ENGINE KILLER). Think about it....resetting the ECU is not going to somehow modify the programming so once the engine runs for a bit and you don't have better gas, guess what??? The ECU is going to refer to the same table values for that octane and jerk timing all over again.......remember, the ECU is getting it's info from the exhaust via O2 sensors. Disconnecting battery is not going to re-train the O2 sensors......

If it were my vehicle, knowing what I know now, I would put the jb4 to map 0 until I had a chance to run out the crap gas and get a fresh tank of better quality. run that through and on the next tank of GOOD gas, switch jb4 to map1, take a log or two and critique results before going any further.

I have had an engine replaced and although it was covered under warranty, not a fun situation.

Just my thoughts......

We aren’t saying anything different. I said run the tank out while not pushing the car at all. Then, once you have eliminated all other variables reset the ECU. That is inline with everything you stated.

That being said it is still speculation that it is bad gas at this point. It could be a number of things. Something installed incorrectly, bad plug, or a number of other things.

Unless someone physically measures the gas you don’t truly know that it is the only issue.

Taking as many variables out the equation is the best place to start. Once you do that resetting the ECU can’t hurt. It can only help speed of the troubleshooting process.

 

[Seef824]

So, I have an unfortunate update. I have left it in map 0 and did a short trip (90 miles each way) to my inlaws this weekend. I filled up with top tier fuel on Friday while still at ~1/3 left of "bad" fuel from the logs. Car has been running "fine" on map 0.

I was leaving it in map 0 until I had a chance to run through more gas and verify logs. On the way home this morning I had the engine shut off after moderate acceleration less than 3 miles from home. I turned it back on and then almost immediately it went into limp mode and code 061B came up.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I should check?

Other notables, it was raining pretty hard for most of the drive today of the 90 miles. Ambient temp is around 60*. I had some hard acceleration along the drive to pass a few cars, but generally did not beat on it. I was in Eco mode for the entire trip. After the car stalled, the shifts were really rough (which seems consistent with the other instances of this fault on here).

Here is the last log I have from Friday before I filled up (on map 0):

 

[ChaneRZ]

P061B Internal Control Module Torque Calculation Performance

How to easily diagnose, repair, and info on causes of a P061B trouble code that indicates a detected internal performance error with the torque performance calculation.

www.obd-codes.com

 

[Seef824]

P061B Internal Control Module Torque Calculation Performance

How to easily diagnose, repair, and info on causes of a P061B trouble code that indicates a detected internal performance error with the torque performance calculation.

www.obd-codes.com

Thanks for the info ChaneRZ. I read about intakes getting wet on other threads (not related to any codes) so that was my first instinct was to check them since I was driving in rain for 90 miles. The passenger intake was dry, the driver one had a couple droplets on the rubber, but the filter seemed dry. This fault looks like it is related to MAF/throttle, but we dont have MAF so I am not sure how it relates to our setup. I wonder if it was possibly traction related because I was accelerating on a turn when the car died after I let off. Then the fault came on and went into limp mode.

 

[monusa]

Check Air filters again and make sure they are NOT allowing air to get past or other contaminants to get past (dust, moisture, etc.).

This could be giving TMAP sensor incorrect readings and the shutdown/limp mode could be a result of the sensor shutting down throttle.....

 

[monusa]

Did you install the intakes before the jb4 or after???

 

[Seef824]

Check Air filters again and make sure they are NOT allowing air to get past or other contaminants to get past (dust, moisture, etc.).

This could be giving TMAP sensor incorrect readings and the shutdown/limp mode could be a result of the sensor shutting down throttle.....

That is kind of what I was thinking as well, but everything looks good on the intake ducting. Everything is connected and tight. The filters werent wet to the touch.

I installed the intakes the day after installing the JB4, but my timing was off the whole time.

 

[monusa]

Clamps, connectors secure? I know the code is pointing to drive-ability issues but going into limp mode is basically the engine/ecu saying they don't agree with what is going on from the time air comes in to the time it goes out the exhaust.

Educated guess is that the something "wrong" is happening just before combustion....

The passenger intake was dry, the driver one had a couple droplets on the rubber, but the filter seemed dry. This fault looks like it is related to MAF/throttle, but we dont have MAF so I am not sure how it relates to our setup

Filter may in fact, be dry but what no one wants is moisture getting past the filter seal. If you take out the filter, is there excessive moisture in the housing or dust?

 

[Seef824]

Clamps, connectors secure? I know the code is pointing to drive-ability issues but going into limp mode is basically the engine/ecu saying they don't agree with what is going on from the time air comes in to the time it goes out the exhaust.

Educated guess is that the something "wrong" is happening just before combustion....


Filter may in fact, be dry but what no one wants is moisture getting past the filter seal. If you take out the filter, is there excessive moisture in the housing or dust?

I just took off both filters to check. They are bone dry and show no signs of any moisture in the intake tubing. It has been ~8 hours since I got home and put the car in the garage. I can see dried moisture on the outside of the tubing on the front of the tube, so water did get into the bay through the grill. But the moisture evidence stops at the filter seal. There is no indication that any moisture got past the seal in any way.

I'm with you thinking there was something with the intake system, but I am not sure.

Someone on the N54 page is fairly confident there is something wrong with the JB4 wiring or unit itself, but he has not brought forth any evidence or rationale as to why.

 

[monusa]

Someone on the N54 page is fairly confident there is something wrong with the JB4 wiring or unit itself, but he has not brought forth any evidence or rationale as to why.

That one is fairly simple to remedy. Just unplug it and connect the wiring harness connectors back. No need to fully remove the jb4 but may want to make sure connectors/wiring are not in harm's way. Of course, no logging but I didn't see anything in the one you provided to say something major is wrong.

See how things run without the jb4 and you will know if it is contributing. Is the CEL clear? With that code, if the issue is correctable by the ecu, it will clear on it's own.