2019 Stinger battery failure

[djerickd]

Well decided I couldn't go past the Century DIN75LHX from Supercheap, on sale for $284.00 for Bathurst week, a bargain...

Gave up on Lithium, to get a drop in replacement for lead acid or AGM battery was too expensive...

Century Battery Ultra Hi Performance - DIN75LHX - 109110

Century Battery Ultra Hi Performance - DIN75LHX - 109110

www.supercheapauto.com.au

how was this one holding up?

 

[PxbVic]

how was this one holding up?

Holding up perfectly mate, but it's an Australian company and Australian made battery I don't know if you'll get one in the USA...

 

[djerickd]

someone posted this brand and looks like a good option:

Powertex Batteries LiFePO4 - Battery Finder by Year, Make and Model

With Powertex Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries unique search tool, one can look up the LiFePO4 replacement model for any automobile, truck, motorcycle, ATV, and more! All you will need is the year, make, model and engine.

powertexbatteries.com

 

[D.J.]

someone posted this brand and looks like a good option:

Powertex Batteries LiFePO4 - Battery Finder by Year, Make and Model

With Powertex Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries unique search tool, one can look up the LiFePO4 replacement model for any automobile, truck, motorcycle, ATV, and more! All you will need is the year, make, model and engine.

powertexbatteries.com

What seems good about it? The price?

 

[djerickd]

Price and super lightweight and double the longevity

 

[Deviate]

Am i the only one that thinks of the awesomeness of the possibility of spontaneous combustion with the lithium batteries? I know its rare but is that not a concern? I dont know enough to actually have a true debate on that concern so if someone can educate me i am all ears honestly

 

[JSolo]

For me, the price is the turn off. $500-800 for a battery seems high.

 

[vipeboy2000]

Am i the only one that thinks of the awesomeness of the possibility of spontaneous combustion with the lithium batteries? I know its rare but is that not a concern? I dont know enough to actually have a true debate on that concern so if someone can educate me i am all ears honestly

what you'd get in most car lithium batteries are a Lithium Iron phosphate battery (LiFePO4) is stable and not the explody kind you find in a Lithium ION battery in a phone/laptop or most tesla's. (teslaford and some others are actually switching to the lithium Iron phosphate ones in their less performance oriented models for safety and better longevity... still use lithium ion in the performance ones since the iron phosphate ones aren't as energy dense/not able to output the same amount of energy as quickly as ion ones.. ) I'm not an expert but have done lots of research since we want to convert to LiFePO4 batteries in our RV.

 

[Volfy]

Am i the only one that thinks of the awesomeness of the possibility of spontaneous combustion with the lithium batteries? I know its rare but is that not a concern? I dont know enough to actually have a true debate on that concern so if someone can educate me i am all ears honestly

Legit question. There was a post from a guy with a Lithium batt in his bike that supposed burned down his garage. He even posted pics of it. That was the only instance I've ever heard of. I, for one, don't jump to conclusions when nothing but pics are posted. There is no telling what folks do with their batteries. Not unusual to hear about folks treating their new LiFePO4 batt the same way to do with their old Lead Acid batts.

LiFePO4 chemistry is very robust and but obviously very different than lead acid. For one thing, it really prefers to be in the middle of the charge state. That is, it doesn't particularly like being always fully charged; it most certainly does not do well when fully discharged. So guys that were used to hooking up a trickle charger as soon as they put their bike into the garage and leave it ON need to re-educate themselves on that habit. Same goes for charging lead acid up to 100% before putting into storage. Shorai's own batt charger actually has a mode where it would discharge the cells to an even 60%(?) as the ideal long-term storage mode, like a northern rider would his bike for the winter

That's another thing... LiFePO4 needs to have the cells balanced periodically. Some mfr supposedly have circuitry built in to their batts that do this. Others offer chargers that plug into a "balancer port" that does this externally. If the cells aren't kept nearly balanced, you run the danger of them getting over-charged and/or over-discharged when the cells are charged/discharged together in series, which is what happens while the batt is in service (vehicle is being driven and batt charged off alternator).

What this means is that LiFePO4 owners needs to understand how to maintain them properly. It is no different than a new EV owner learning the different routines and maintenance schedules with an electric vehicle, compared to good ol' internal combustion. Some of it will be more tedious, others a welcome plus.

I lost count of how many LiFePO4 I have in my garage, as most of my bikes have been converted over from lead acid. The KABOOM really only happens when the lithium is exposed to oxygen in the ambient air. Even with the LiPo and Li-Ion cells in your phone and laptop, which typically don't have much of any protective casing, the likelihood of that happening is very very rare. When was the last time you ever worried about your phone going KABOOM 2 inches from your family jewels?

Not only is the LiFePO4 chemistry more robust than other aforementioned lithium batts, the automotive ones are always encased in a hard shell that prevent physical damage.

Is spontaneous combustion a non-zero risk with LiFePO4? Yes. Just like your smartphone in your pocket and the earbuds in your ear. For that matter, so is the 14+gal fuel tank right next to the battery in your Stinger... full of highly-volatile flammable gasoline.

 

[LordKOTL]

So assuming someone like me drives ~3-4 days out of the week and doesn't garage it for more than 2 weeks straight (usually when traveling). Is there any real maintenance? It seems to me I should just drive it like usual and keep a jumpstarter on my car if I wanted to go that route.

Legit question. There was a post from a guy with a Lithium batt in his bike that supposed burned down his garage. He even posted pics of it. That was the only instance I've ever heard of. I, for one, don't jump to conclusions when nothing but pics are posted. There is no telling what folks do with their batteries. Not unusual to hear about folks treating their new LiFePO4 batt the same way to do with their old Lead Acid batts.

LiFePO4 chemistry is very robust and but obviously very different than lead acid. For one thing, it really prefers to be in the middle of the charge state. That is, it doesn't particularly like being always fully charged; it most certainly does not do well when fully discharged. So guys that were used to hooking up a trickle charger as soon as they put their bike into the garage and leave it ON need to re-educate themselves on that habit. Same goes for charging lead acid up to 100% before putting into storage. Shorai's own batt charger actually has a mode where it would discharge the cells to an even 60%(?) as the ideal long-term storage mode, like a northern rider would his bike for the winter

That's another thing... LiFePO4 needs to have the cells balanced periodically. Some mfr supposedly have circuitry built in to their batts that do this. Others offer chargers that plug into a "balancer port" that does this externally. If the cells aren't kept nearly balanced, you run the danger of them getting over-charged and/or over-discharged when the cells are charged/discharged together in series, which is what happens while the batt is in service (vehicle is being driven and batt charged off alternator).

What this means is that LiFePO4 owners needs to understand how to maintain them properly. It is no different than a new EV owner learning the different routines and maintenance schedules with an electric vehicle, compared to good ol' internal combustion. Some of it will be more tedious, others a welcome plus.

I lost count of how many LiFePO4 I have in my garage, as most of my bikes have been converted over from lead acid. The KABOOM really only happens when the lithium is exposed to oxygen in the ambient air. Even with the LiPo and Li-Ion cells in your phone and laptop, which typically don't have much of any protective casing, the likelihood of that happening is very very rare. When was the last time you ever worried about your phone going KABOOM 2 inches from your family jewels?

Not only is the LiFePO4 chemistry more robust than other aforementioned lithium batts, the automotive ones are always encased in a hard shell that prevent physical damage.

Is spontaneous combustion a non-zero risk with LiFePO4? Yes. Just like your smartphone in your pocket and the earbuds in your ear. For that matter, so is the 14+gal fuel tank right next to the battery in your Stinger... full of highly-volatile flammable gasoline.

 

[Volfy]

So assuming someone like me drives ~3-4 days out of the week and doesn't garage it for more than 2 weeks straight (usually when traveling). Is there any real maintenance? It seems to me I should just drive it like usual and keep a jumpstarter on my car if I wanted to go that route.

For a daily driver, you likely won't need to do much vs. lead acid. Heat is the No.1 killer of batteries of any kind. The battery being in the relatively cool trunk floor will last longer than those that live under hood next to the hot engine.

For me, the price is the turn off. $500-800 for a battery seems high.

When I started looking for one for the Stinger a couple yrs ago, they were $1k+. Some are still rather pricey, but there are ones that have come down into what I consider reasonable territory. Consider the fact that a good H7 AGM battery costs about $250 at most auto parts stores. Premium ones like Optima are $300-350+. A LiFePO4 around $500-$550 isn't that far off.

The weight reduction is the biggest plus. There isn't too many easy/cheap ways to shave 40-50 lbs off the car. Carbon fiber hood is probably the biggest one; it only saves about 20 lbs but costs $1300. Every time we take off the spare wheel/tire, the trunk floor, etc. for a track event, the rear ride height sits a few mm taller... not much but visible difference. It is especially noticeable with the G70. 40-50 lbs lighter rear end will make a very appreciable difference in handling, especially through the slalom, where you are tossing the car from side to side.

For everyday driving, I doubt most drivers will feel much of a difference. Doesn't mean the difference isn't there, just most drivers likely won't feel it. The Enkei TFRs we have are 10-13lbs lighter than stock wheels. That's HUGE to myself and my son when we hit the track, but oblivious to Mrs. Volfy. That said, for a daily driver, it's not improbable for 40-50 lbs weight reduction to save 1-3% on fuel economy, especially if's city driving with lots of stop-n-go. May not be noticeable at each fill up, but it adds up. Over 100k miles, at say 25mpg and $5/gal, that's roughly $200-$600 savings. That could be even higher if your overall mpg is lower and gas is more expensive in your area.

Obviously, if it's a leased car that won't be around the garage for more than a couple of years, I wouldn't bother. Both our Stinger and G70 are keepers and so, for me, LiFePO4's are a worthy prospect, all things considered.

 

[djerickd]

well said!