Launch control, what a JOKE..

[MerlintheMad]

I guarantee you that, same power, same tires, same road, the AWD will get off the line faster. The question is at what speed the RWD catches up.

Hmm. Some have said with finality that the RWD goes zero to sixty quicker: that the LC RWD is where the 4.7 factory claim originates. Moving greater weight is felt off the line, it seems to me. The AWD has more "graboids" (aka as tires, heheh) to convey the extra weight, so it seems like it should mostly be a tradeoff and even-Steven. But I'm told it's not. Still wondering if a human shifted AWD can equal or beat a LC RWD, 0-60 and in the quarter. And I'm guessing that most drivers of the RWD, without LC (i.e. driving the car themselves), most of the time, will opt to be a mite conservative off the line to minimize lighting the tires up and losing that way.

 

[DaJackson]

I guarantee you that, same power, same tires, same road, the AWD will get off the line faster. The question is at what speed the RWD catches up.

Unless the RWD loses traction the AWD is not faster at any point in a drag race if the power is the same. Physics says it doesn’t work.

 

[MerlintheMad]

The "physics" are counterintuitive to me. But what else is new. It does seem that "four legs good, two legs bad" ought to work here as well.

 

[DaJackson]

The "physics" are counterintuitive to me. But what else is new. It does seem that "four legs good, two legs bad" ought to work here as well.

Acceleration = Force/Mass

Force is equal between RWD and AWD but the mass isn’t. More mass equals less acceleration.

The only way AWD is faster is if the RWD doesn’t have traction.

 

[Paul32]

Acceleration = Force/Mass

Force is equal between RWD and AWD but the mass isn’t. More mass equals less acceleration.

The only way AWD is faster is if the RWD doesn’t have traction.

Don't see many 4 wheel drive dragsters?

 

[MerlintheMad]

No. That's a good point. But I wasn't asserting that all the tests are mistaken just because the concept of RWD and AWD favors the latter to my counterintuitive mind. All I am saying is that the LC in RWD can be aced by a driver actually choosing gas and shifting in an AWD, eschewing the LC in other words. A correctly driven AWD can get better than the 4.7 to 60. But so, too, can a driver controlled RWD, even more so.

 

[Helo58]

As I have read the forum, I get the sense that the AWD on the Stinger is geared more towards inclement weather (snow, ice) to increase sales potential in snowy, icy, and wet geographical areas. If you have ever seen the launch control in a Porsche Panamera, for example, it basically amounts to a 5500rpm clutch drop of the PDK (dual clutch). What is in the Stinger is nowhere near as violent as that. You just will not get a "real" launch control with a "current tech" torque converter transmission as the Stinger has. As others have stated, there is no advantage to AWD launches until the RWD is breaking traction. The AWD will always have the 200+lb weight penalty though. Does anyone know if the Stinger has a locking torque converter?

 

[Kazz]

Hmm. Some have said with finality that the RWD goes zero to sixty quicker: that the LC RWD is where the 4.7 factory claim originates. Moving greater weight is felt off the line, it seems to me. The AWD has more "graboids" (aka as tires, heheh) to convey the extra weight, so it seems like it should mostly be a tradeoff and even-Steven. But I'm told it's not. Still wondering if a human shifted AWD can equal or beat a LC RWD, 0-60 and in the quarter. And I'm guessing that most drivers of the RWD, without LC (i.e. driving the car themselves), most of the time, will opt to be a mite conservative off the line to minimize lighting the tires up and losing that way.

Unless the RWD loses traction the AWD is not faster at any point in a drag race if the power is the same. Physics says it doesn’t work.

I'll still maintain that the AWD will leave the line quicker (BTW, Torq has proven that the AWD ECUs have higher OEM boost levels) until I'm proven wrong. I suppose that may get measured by 60' times at a dragstrip. And I know the RWD is supposed to be quicker to 60. I seem to remember someone saying virtually these exact things in a review or something, too.

Acceleration = Force/Mass

Force is equal between RWD and AWD but the mass isn’t. More mass equals less acceleration.

The only way AWD is faster is if the RWD doesn’t have traction.

There is a whole lot more going on than the unique application of that single equation with the singular values of the car's HP, Torque, and weight.

What good is 100% of the power going to the rear wheels if it starts spinning after 60% of it hits and the brake-based traction-control kicks in. The AWD has almost twice the contact area with the pavement, having four contact patches vs. two, and could put down more than 60% between them in this scenario.

I'm happy to be proven wrong. But this is my thinking after having been around many FWD, RWD, and AWD vehicles, their owners, and desktop drag-racers for a few years. LOL

 

[Helo58]

I haven't looked at the transmission in depth either due to lack of interest or lack of information. However, a lot of this is going to depend on the torque converter and the TCU, not simply who is shifting or torque. The size of the converter and the associated stall rpm will determine how much torque it can handle without slipping and/or overheating. If it is undersized, this will only get worse with repeated launches and no transmission cooler. I have no idea if the Stinger has a trans cooler. To put a ton of low rpm turbo torque through a small converter (AWD launch) will simply overwhelm it. Furthermore, if the Stinger has a locking converter, it remains to be seen how well the clutches hold the extra torque without overheating or slipping. Packaging constraints in a GT type car may limit the size and cooling capacity of the stock unit. Does anyone have the specs for the stock transmission?

 

[Kazz]

I haven't looked at the transmission in depth either due to lack of interest or lack of information. However, a lot of this is going to depend on the torque converter and the TCU, not simply who is shifting or torque. The size of the converter and the associated stall rpm will determine how much torque it can handle without slipping and/or overheating. If it is undersized, this will only get worse with repeated launches and no transmission cooler. I have no idea if the Stinger has a trans cooler. To put a ton of low rpm turbo torque through a small converter (AWD launch) will simply overwhelm it. Furthermore, if the Stinger has a locking converter, it remains to be seen how well the clutches hold the extra torque without overheating or slipping. Packaging constraints in a GT type car may limit the size and cooling capacity of the stock unit. Does anyone have the specs for the stock transmission?

I've also been wondering if there's a trans cooler. That'd be good to know. I'm sure that, eventually, the aftermarket will create or improve on one.

 

[Helo58]

I've also been wondering if there's a trans cooler. That'd be good to know. I'm sure that, eventually, the aftermarket will create or improve on one.

Yeah, I'd like that and a lockup converter. I'd be really surprised if KIA didn't use a lockup converter on this car. Both will assist in any future performance improvements.

 

[eflyguy]

Pretty sure there is a transmission/engine oil heat exchange system - it's been mentioned on this forum.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Pretty sure there is a transmission/engine oil heat exchange system - it's been mentioned on this forum.

There must be. Otherwise, why would Stinger manual say to cool off the transmission fluid by normal driving speeds, after using LC?

 

[Helo58]

Pretty sure there is a transmission/engine oil heat exchange system - it's been mentioned on this forum.

There must be. Otherwise, why would Stinger manual say to cool off the transmission fluid by normal driving speeds, after using LC?

I just read a review of the Stinger where the reviewer mentioned a transmission cooler specifically. Hopefully his review is accurate. I was unable to find mention of it here on the forum, but I did ask Tork MS this question and some others regarding the transmission in another thread where the transmission is discussed. Hopefully they will chime in on the topic.

 

[Kazz]

Next question then becomes best trans fluid...

 

[Dennis Macho]

This post generated some good reading. Thanks

 

[eflyguy]

I just read a review of the Stinger where the reviewer mentioned a transmission cooler specifically. Hopefully his review is accurate. I was unable to find mention of it here on the forum, ...

Found the post I was referring to:

Normal operating temperature range (according to my Kia techs) is similar for both engine oil and transmission oil, and we know that the transmission oil is cooled by engine oil coolant heat transfer on this car.

 

[Kamauxx]

Found the post I was referring to:

I don't recommend taking his post as gospel. Not saying he's wrong...he just isn't exactly a Stinger expert.

 

[eflyguy]

Oh, I don't - I just remember seeing it being referenced on this forum before.

 

[Helo58]

Maybe when I have the car up on the rack this week for my first oil change, I will take a peek and ask some questions. In my last forum, I was a "junior" member with several very technically minded owners on there owning the car for many years. Here we are all "junior" members, this being a first year car and all.