About Requirement for Premium Gas

[Marc Collins]

I pay 20 cents per litre more for premium. So yes, it adds up.

-just noticed this has already been mentioned. Hadn’t read all the comments.

Right, so $0.76 per US gallon for comparison. Your from Alberta (Canada's Texas)--any idea why we pay such a high additional amount for premium in Canada vs. USA? My answer is simple--when Canada converted to metric eons ago, premium was 3 cents per (Imperial) gallon more than regular. Magically, once sold in litres (4.54 per Imperial gallon), the gap stayed exactly as it had been and the retailers successfully took advantage of consumer confusion at the time (which there was plenty).

Has stuck ever since...except the gap keeps growing even more than the trajectory of the gas price in general.

 

[eflyguy]

Much (but not all) of the price difference is marketing - there's nothing "premium" about higher octane, as has been discussed before.
The cost spread between "regular" and "premium" is exploited for profit.

It is interesting to know that production of higher octane reduces overall yield, so it is more expensive by volume to produce. The specific numbers are available thru EIA and other government agencies, and an interesting twist is that ethanol has a very high octane rating (115 or so), when blended into gasoline it raises the octane level, so the refiners dropped the overall octane level of the base fuel. This results in an even larger spread in prices. Finally, the demand for "premium" has dropped steadily - probably as more people realize it's not "better" and were wasting money where not needed.

 

[Paul32]

Much (but not all) of the price difference is marketing - there's nothing "premium" about higher octane, as has been discussed before.
The cost spread between "regular" and "premium" is exploited for profit.

It is interesting to know that production of higher octane reduces overall yield, so it is more expensive by volume to produce. The specific numbers are available thru EIA and other government agencies, and an interesting twist is that ethanol has a very high octane rating (115 or so), when blended into gasoline it raises the octane level, so the refiners dropped the overall octane level of the base fuel. This results in an even larger spread in prices. Finally, the demand for "premium" has dropped steadily - probably as more people realize it's not "better" and were wasting money where not needed.

And the manufactures are offering their product line using reg. fuel, like Hyundai. I think Kia also falls into that category but starting to drift away from the with the Stinger recommend over required. Think they may be trying to satisfy all customers. Put in whatever you want.

 

[FFR6288]

I'm going to buck the trend here and stick with 87, for several reasons. The owner''s manual only requires 87 or above, and the only time the word "premium" appears is on page 7-73 in reference to a fuse. The number on the gas pump is a minimum, and may in fact be higher at times. I always used 87 for 95,000 miles in my turbo Optima SX without any problems whatsoever. I just can't justify paying 30 to 80 cents more per gallon (Phoenix area) when I could be using that money to... maybe buy more gas for my 2.0L premium Stinger?

YMMV (really!)

Rich

 

[Nedstand]

I'm going to buck the trend here and stick with 87, for several reasons. The owner''s manual only requires 87 or above, and the only time the word "premium" appears is on page 7-73 in reference to a fuse. The number on the gas pump is a minimum, and may in fact be higher at times. I always used 87 for 95,000 miles in my turbo Optima SX without any problems whatsoever. I just can't justify paying 30 to 80 cents more per gallon (Phoenix area) when I could be using that money to... maybe buy more gas for my 2.0L premium Stinger?

YMMV (really!)

Rich

Rich,

Your position sounds perfectly logical to me, especially since you have the 2.0L motor and there is big spread where you live for 91.
Those of us who got the 3.3L engine spent a few grand more for the larger engine, so I want to get max performance. This is the largest motor of any car (fastest car also) I've owned in the past, and since the delta for me is only 20 cents, I'll fill up with 91.

Brings new meaning to "voting with one's feet" ;-)

 

[Marc Collins]

For the zillionth time, there is no harm whatsoever from using 87 octane. You just likely won't get the full as-advertised HP and torque numbers, so KIA is forced to recommend that fuel. If they do not, it would be false advertising. We know how well that has gone over in the industry of late (e.g., VW and Hyundai).

Do you want 376 lb.-ft. of torque for premium price, or approx. 360 (my guess) for whatever amount less. If you look back, I have also been asking for months now why is KIA not publishing the power and torque numbers for regular versus premium for the Stinger. They (and may other companies) have done so for other cars. It's right in the user manual for some. Caveat emptor--the one piece of information we need to make an educated choice is magically missing...

 

[eflyguy]

Everyone - Marc is the loudest guy around the table at the bar after a few beers, but his comments are valid, so don't take offense!

I wonder if one of our tuning partners (Tork?) would use their equipment to provide those numbers for us?

 

[BlaydeX15]

I run 91 because 'regular' up here is 85 (which is too low) mid is 88, and 91 is only like 10c more expensive than mid, which I'd need anyway.

Side note, my owner's manual doesn't have the sticker on the fuel page. Can anyone share what it says?

 

[Joeh1974]

I go back and forth between mid-grade (89) and premium (91) here. Most stations here have regular at 86, which would be too low. I'm starting to use more and more mid-grade now as there is a $.30 per gallon difference between each tier of gas at most stations here. I drive at least 50 miles round-trip per workday, so fill-ups are frequent.

 

[Marc Collins]

Everyone - Marc is the loudest guy around the table at the bar after a few beers, but his comments are valid, so don't take offense!

I wonder if one of our tuning partners (Tork?) would use their equipment to provide those numbers for us?

Sorry, we just have the same conversation about this over and over and in every car site on the Internet...

It would be great to get some data, though, from any reputable source.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I run 91 because 'regular' up here is 85 (which is too low) mid is 88, and 91 is only like 10c more expensive than mid, which I'd need anyway.

Side note, my owner's manual doesn't have the sticker on the fuel page. Can anyone share what it says?

I have the sticker on page 1-2. It reads: "For the optimal engine performance, we recommend you use unleaded gasoline which has an octane rating of RON (Research Octane Number) 95/AKI (Anti Knock Index) 91 or higher. Using Unleaded gasoline with an octane rating lower than RON 95 could result in loss of engine power and increase in fuel consumption. Your new vehicle is designed to obtain maximum performance with UNLEADED FUEL, as well as minimize exhaust emissions and spark plug fouling. Never add any fuel system cleaning agents to the fuel tank other than what has been specified. (Consult an authorized Kia dealer for details.) Tighten the cap until it clicks one time, otherwise the Check Engine light will illuminate."

There, that is the entire sticker verbiage.

 

[FFR6288]

I do not have this sticker in my owner''s manual, so I assumed 87 octane was all I needed. I wonder if this was yet another part of dealer prep that my dealer "missed" in their hurry to get the car off the lot. Or perhaps this is a 4 vs. 6 cylinder thing. Do any of you 4 cylinder folks have this sticker? Any 6 cylinders without? The answer to this may clarify things a bit.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[Fenweekooo]

i just asked my dealer about the gas requirements and they said regular old 87 was fine

EDIT: For use in a Stinger GT Limited 3.3 TT

 

[Grishbok]

I didn't see any mention of the science involved in the octane rating relative to engine performance so let me try to 'Tuesday morning quarterback' this shit:

The lower the octane rating, the less compression/heat is required to ignite the fuel.
Turbocharged cars are under increased pressure by the nature of a turbo-charger, coupled with high compression.
Therefore, using lower octane gas forces the ECU to RETARD the timing, meaning the ignition occurs earlier to reduce the risk of detonation. The computer is pretty smart about it these days, the side effect of this is REDUCED POWER.

The higher the octane rating, the higher the compression/heat required to ignite it. This means the timing can be ADVANCED to ignite at a much more precise time as the piston compresses the air/fuel, allowing the ECU to detonate the combustion at the exact right time to maximize the kinetic energy transfer as the explosion pushes the piston down, which translates into MORE POWER! (to a point, you can't exceed to mechanical limits of the motor)

 

[Marc Collins]

I do not have this sticker in my owner''s manual, so I assumed 87 octane was all I needed. I wonder if this was yet another part of dealer prep that my dealer "missed" in their hurry to get the car off the lot. Or perhaps this is a 4 vs. 6 cylinder thing. Do any of you 4 cylinder folks have this sticker? Any 6 cylinders without? The answer to this may clarify things a bit.

Thanks,

Rich

Nope, they only started putting them in the manuals fairly recently.

 

[Marc Collins]

i just asked my dealer about the gas requirements and they said regular old 87 was fine

EDIT: For use in a Stinger GT Limited 3.3 TT

It is fine if you are OK not getting the full advertised HP and torque.

 

[Marc Collins]

I didn't see any mention of the science involved in the octane rating relative to engine performance so let me try to 'Tuesday morning quarterback' this shit:

The lower the octane rating, the less compression/heat is required to ignite the fuel.
Turbocharged cars are under increased pressure by the nature of a turbo-charger, coupled with high compression.
Therefore, using lower octane gas forces the ECU to RETARD the timing, meaning the ignition occurs earlier to reduce the risk of detonation. The computer is pretty smart about it these days, the side effect of this is REDUCED POWER.

The higher the octane rating, the higher the compression/heat required to ignite it. This means the timing can be ADVANCED to ignite at a much more precise time as the piston compresses the air/fuel, allowing the ECU to detonate the combustion at the exact right time to maximize the kinetic energy transfer as the explosion pushes the piston down, which translates into MORE POWER! (to a point, you can't exceed to mechanical limits of the motor)

This the same science that has existed since the 1980's when fuel injection and ECU's were introduced. Fundamentally true for all cars on the road.

The only issue is which fuel/octane was used to get the EPA (or otherwise published) fuel economy numbers and the HP and torque used in marketing materials. Manufacturers sometimes like to be cagey about that. Draw your own conclusions as to why.

And I say "marketing materials" because it is well known some manufacturers understate the power of certain of their vehicles for a variety of marketing-related reasons.

 

[Fenweekooo]

It is fine if you are OK not getting the full advertised HP and torque.

is there somewhere that says this? Dealer said there was no ill effect using 87, including HP loss. The manual says use 87 with no warnings that you will experience HP or torque loss. just wondering where everyone is coming up with this...

 

[Ucinn]

is there somewhere that says this? Dealer said there was no ill effect using 87, including HP loss. The manual says use 87 with no warnings that you will experience HP or torque loss. just wondering where everyone is coming up with this...

Take what any dealer says with a grain of salt. They are correct in that it will not harm your engine, they are incorrect that you won't lose any power.

 

[Marc Collins]

is there somewhere that says this? Dealer said there was no ill effect using 87, including HP loss. The manual says use 87 with no warnings that you will experience HP or torque loss. just wondering where everyone is coming up with this...

No, the manual has been updated as per the conversation above. And if you read the rest of what I wrote, you would know what's up.

Go ahead and contact KIA and ask then to confirm the HP/torque numbers are achieved with regular (87 octane). First, laugh that they won't be able to give you an answer straight away (why?!?!). Then, tell us what the eventual answer is.

If you really want to bang your head into the wall, ask what the HP and torque numbers are at the common octane levels (87, 89, 91, 93).