Summer setup help

[Proberge4273]

Hey everyone,

Sorry to bug you guys with another tire and wheel question, but I'm having a hard time getting a clear answer on this. I'm looking to pick up a set of Forged wheels for the summer and can't decide whether to go with a wider staggered setup or a squared 255 setup all around. I was hoping you guys could shed some light on the pros and cons of each setup.

I still have a good amount of tread left on my stock-size tires, so ideally, I'd like to use them on the new wheels either set up until they wear out - and then upgrade to either a wider staggered setup or squared later on. The wheels I'm considering only come in 19x8.5 and 19x10. I was wondering if my stock 225 and 255 would fit these temporarily until I get bigger tires. If I went with the squared 255 setup I would get the 19x8.5 all around.

If I went with the wider staggered setup when I do upgrade my tires what sizes should I look to get to fit those wheels?

 

[Snicklefritz]

225 fits on an 8.5 wide wheel. That's what I run up front.

 

[Volfy]

I wouldn't bother transferring your current tires onto the new wheels. They might fit, but the sizing would most likely be less than ideal. Besides, unless you have a shop that can mount/dismount/balance tires cheap (or for free), it doesn't make sense to dump money into an old set of tires. Just leave them on the stock wheels and wear them out.

I usually buy my tires from Tire Rack. For tire and wheels bought at the same time, they mount/balance the tires for free. That is at least $100 savings right there. Some places charge a good bit more than that.

 

[Proberge4273]

225 fits on an 8.5 wide wheel. That's what I run up front.

Okay sweet I’m not as concerned about that one more on the 255 on the 10

 

[Proberge4273]

I wouldn't bother transferring your current tires onto the new wheels. They might fit, but the sizing would most likely be less than ideal. Besides, unless you have a shop that can mount/dismount/balance tires cheap (or for free), it doesn't make sense to dump money into an old set of tires. Just leave them on the stock wheels and wear them out.

I usually buy my tires from Tire Rack. For tire and wheels bought at the same time, they mount/balance the tires for free. That is at least $100 savings right there. Some places charge a good bit more than that.

The wheels on my OEM set are like basically brand new I put them on a little bit before winter and then didn’t drive much at all after than and then I got my winter wheels and tires recently so they aren’t being driven on more I just would hate to spend more money if I don’t have too. I think belle tire quoted me around 30 bucks per tire to get them swapped around.

I run the continental dws06 plus and it does say the 255 max width is a 10inch wheel so I assume I’d be okay but just wanted to check with some others. I have looked at tire rack but there isn’t a fully forge option in my price range.

 

[Thomby]

it does say the 255 max width is a 10inch wheel

The 225/40 fronts are recommended for a 7.5-9" width wheel.
The 255/35 rears are recommended for an 8.5-10" width wheel.

So you'd go from almost too much tire for the wheel, to just barely enough, if you mount them on 10" wheels. A middle ground option would be to run the rear 255s up front on 8.5s, and upgrade to something like a 285/30 rear which is recommended for 9.5-10.5" wide wheels. Might be able to sell the 225 fronts with the wheels.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Okay sweet I’m not as concerned about that one more on the 255 on the 10

Yes, 255 is the minimum tire width for a 10", recommended of course, people will stretch this literally. Looks like crap though as well as being hard on the tire and unsafe in the extreme cases.

 

[Proberge4273]

Yes, 255 is the minimum tire width for a 10", recommended of course, people will stretch this literally. Looks like crap though as well as being hard on the tire and unsafe in the extreme cases.

Okay so the setup is possible until I run them down it’ll just look stretched for the time being which I’m okay with really.

 

[Proberge4273]

The 225/40 fronts are recommended for a 7.5-9" width wheel.
The 255/35 rears are recommended for an 8.5-10" width wheel.

So you'd go from almost too much tire for the wheel, to just barely enough, if you mount them on 10" wheels. A middle ground option would be to run the rear 255s up front on 8.5s, and upgrade to something like a 285/30 rear which is recommended for 9.5-10.5" wide wheels. Might be able to sell the 225 fronts with the wheels.

Okay that makes sense, so it is possible but not ideal really. Are there any pros and cons with going squared vs staggered?

 

[Thomby]

Are there any pros and cons with going squared vs staggered?

Main benefit of a square setup is you can rotate your wheels/tires front to rear as well as side to side, and you can buy tires in sets of 4 instead of 2. The reason for a staggered setup is generally because you're sending a lot of power to the rear and you want extra grip there (without correspondingly massive fronts).

Going from staggered to square in theory will shift your grip towards oversteer, but via more added grip in front (vs. removing it in the rear). In practice you may not be able to tell any difference.

(As an interesting exception to the trend, the Audi RS3 used 255s on 8.5" fronts, and 235s on 8" rears, probably due to how far forward the engine is, and that it's a FWD-based AWD system, to make it a bit more tail-happy. And of course the forums are full of guys swapping them or running square setups.)

 

[Proberge4273]

Main benefit of a square setup is you can rotate your wheels/tires front to rear as well as side to side, and you can buy tires in sets of 4 instead of 2. The reason for a staggered setup is generally because you're sending a lot of power to the rear and you want extra grip there (without correspondingly massive fronts).

Going from staggered to square in theory will shift your grip towards oversteer, but via more added grip in front (vs. removing it in the rear). In practice you may not be able to tell any difference.

(As an interesting exception to the trend, the Audi RS3 used 255s on 8.5" fronts, and 235s on 8" rears, probably due to how far forward the engine is, and that it's a FWD-based AWD system, to make it a bit more tail-happy. And of course the forums are full of guys swapping them or running square setups.)

Okay, that makes sense to me just being able to rotate my tires is a huge plus going with that squared setup but the look of a wider rear is what is making my decision so hard. Would a 255 fit up front I know there is a bunch of forums and people running the 255 without any issues but I have 19x8.5 up front with a 235/40/R19 Michelin X-Ice and there is absolutely no room between the shock I am surprised my winter setup aren't hitting it. The winters are 19x8.5 ET35 all around. Also if I went with a staggered setup I am thinking about going down from that 10 inch to a 9.5 to not stretch my 255 current tires so much. What would the max tire size I could fit on that 9.5 wide when my currents run out and I want to upgrade? Would a 275-285 fit that 9.5.

 

[Thomby]

Would a 255 fit up front I know there is a bunch of forums and people running the 255 without any issues but I have 19x8.5 up front with a 235/40/R19 Michelin X-Ice and there is absolutely no room between the shock I am surprised my winter setup aren't hitting it.

This made my head hurt to read as one sentence...yes people are running 8.5, 9, and even 9.5" wheels up front, with 235, 245, and 255 tires, and offsets in the 30, 35, 40 range. One confirmed square setup is 8.5s with 255/35s and a +25 offset.

But keep in mind that if you end up too close to the suspension, you can reduce offset with spacers, but you can't do the reverse. And the rear offset is 12.5mm (half inch) higher than the fronts, so it may be better to err on the high side knowing you can push the fronts back out (versus risking having the rears too far out with no way to pull them in). A +35 offset becomes +25 with a 10mm spacer.

If you want to go with 9.5s in the rear, a 285 is as big as recommended, but there are people running 285s on 9" wheels. And a 275 would fit just fine.

 

[Proberge4273]

This made my head hurt to read as one sentence...yes people are running 8.5, 9, and even 9.5" wheels up front, with 235, 245, and 255 tires, and offsets in the 30, 35, 40 range. One confirmed square setup is 8.5s with 255/35s and a +25 offset.

But keep in mind that if you end up too close to the suspension, you can reduce offset with spacers, but you can't do the reverse. And the rear offset is 12.5mm (half inch) higher than the fronts, so it may be better to err on the high side knowing you can push the fronts back out (versus risking having the rears too far out with no way to pull them in). A +35 offset becomes +25 with a 10mm spacer.

If you want to go with 9.5s in the rear, a 285 is as big as recommended, but there are people running 285s on 9" wheels. And a 275 would fit just fine.

Okay perfect - I think I've made up my mind and I am going to go with the 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 to run my current 225/255 down then going to replace them with 235/35/R19 and 275/30/R19 if you can confirm that will work with AWD. I don't know currently what offsets the wheels will be as Variant is building them to the car once I let them know what sizes I want to run.

 

[Thomby]

I am going to go with the 19x8.5 and 19x9.5
I don't know currently what offsets the wheels will be

For the fronts, 19x8 +34 is stock, and 19x8 +14 (ie a 20mm spacer) is about as flush/poked as you probably want to be. An 8.5" wheel at +34 adds 1/4" or 6.4mm inside & out, so I'd say anything between that and about +20 would be fine.

I know I've seen 8.5s with +25 offset, which would put the outer edge about where stockers would be with a 15mm spacer (offset 14mm lower than stock + extra 6.4mm from wider wheel). I think @MerlintheMad is running 8.5 +40s, which would put the outer edge where the stockers are (6mm higher offset negated by 6mm more wheel), and the inner edge about 12.5mm or half inch further inward.

For the rears, 19x8.5 +46.5 is stock, and 19x8.5 +26.5 (ie a 20mm spacer) is flush to slightly poked. A 9.5" wheel at +46.5 adds 1/2" or 12.5mm inside & out, so an offset as high as say +55 would put the outer edge where the stockers are, and as low as maybe +35 would have you starting to poke.

Obviously you will want to coordinate, ie not go extreme one way with the fronts and opposite end of the range for the rears. +35 front and +50 rear for a conservative fit, or +20 front and +35 rear for a more aggressive one.