3.3TT Tried 110 race fuel on map 5 for the first time.

[Iguana]

I tried 110 octane race fuel for the first time today. My first pull felt as if the power was cutting in and out when I got to the higher revs. I tried a second pull and logged it (below) and I didn’t feel it “cutting power” but it didn't feel as fast as my car does with an E30 mix on map 4. I’m hoping some more experienced minds could tell me if there is anything alarming happening in the log below, or if there is anything different I need to do. Maybe more supporting mods, intercooler or catless DP? It’s the 3.3Twin turbo

My current mods are:
Injen air intakes
Catback borla exhaust
JB4 tuner with recommended spark plugs and gapping.

I can get more logs if needed.

 

[cLaw]

Post the csv file instead, also I have ran map5 on e30 with no issues but that was during the summer so I havent in a while. All I have is an intake and plugs lol

 

[Iguana]

Post the csv file instead, also I have ran map5 on e30 with no issues but that was during the summer so I havent in a while. All I have is an intake and plugs lol

 

[cLaw]

From what I see looks fine. Might want someone else to chime in just in case but your cylinders are all below 3 and your fp/trims look good.

 

[See3Pee01971]

I’ve tried it all. My experience: forget the race fuel, forget the Boostane etc. just get a proper mix of E. These cars seem tuned very specifically for E mix. I’m currently running E45, and moving to E60. Install the fuel-it system, get CPI, BEF (or full ECU tune, LAP3 etc. I personally like full BMS setup) and a TCU tune. You’ll be where you want to be. Which I’m assuming is melt your face speed out of this platform. You just need the supporting mods.

 

[Iguana]

I’ve tried it all. My experience: forget the race fuel, forget the Boostane etc. just get a proper mix of E. These cars seem tuned very specifically for E mix. I’m currently running E45, and moving to E60. Install the fuel-it system, get CPI, BEF (or full ECU tune, LAP3 etc. I personally like full BMS setup) and a TCU tune. You’ll be where you want to be. Which I’m assuming is melt your face speed out of this platform. You just need the supporting mods.

I haven’t considered this yet, this sounds like it would 100% be worth looking into. Are you concerned that having ethanol mixtures that high will start to corrode your fuel lines or cause any form of mechanical issues? Who did your BEF, Was it BMS? I’m asking because I’d like to stick with my JB4, but not sure how I’d go about getting further tuning done.

My main concern is dumping money into the engine for minimal HP returns. I had considered getting a LAP3 ECU & TCU tune, and WMI kit which would put me past 500awhp for sure, but it would end up costing me around $5,000 to only gain 50-75hp.

My very rough guess is that I make in the ballpark of 420-450 hp when I’m running my E30 mix on map 4.

However, if it is as simple as getting the full CPI kit (which is less than $1,000), to gain about 100 hp (what BMS website says) I’m all in. Just want to confirm I’m not going to get myself into major reliability troubles.

 

[Iguana]

From what I see looks fine. Might want someone else to chime in just in case but your cylinders are all below 3 and your fp/trims look good.

Map 4 felt the exact same if I’m honest. From my understanding, the only difference is map 4 tapers off the boost towards the top end. I think if I keep with the 110 octane race fuel instead of going back to an E mix, I’ll mix it with 93 and keep it in map 4. Wish I knew how to read those logs better so I can have a better understanding of what is happening lol

 

[cLaw]

Map 4 felt the exact same if I’m honest. From my understanding, the only difference is map 4 tapers off the boost towards the top end. I think if I keep with the 110 octane race fuel instead of going back to an E mix, I’ll mix it with 93 and keep it in map 4. Wish I knew how to read those logs better so I can have a better understanding of what is happening lol

Its relatively easy to be honest but heres an older thread that explains some of it. It boils down to just looking for certain numbers and checking the csv over the graph.

JB4 Logging Parameters - JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion

Hey guys, We’ll use this thread for details and discussions on Kia specific JB4 logging parameters. Fuel trims and wideband o2 sensor control explained here...

www.jb4tech.com

 

[Corleone1]

To have your car faster you really need to shift at 5800 rpm, turbos are so small and effectiveness drops dramatic where they cannot produce enough cold air. The thing is to shift earlier without boost drop from like 5400 as we can see in your log picture. Its always easier also to have more power with Ethanol than gas, it also allows around 6-10 degrees more timing. E85 is a bit easier for turbos hotside also as it runs colder but... air volume would be the same if you max turbos power as you run more fuel then to get this E85 power.

E85 is much more safe than gas. My advice would be:

- run JB4 FW 31 for more straight boost curve
- run WG wires to adjust up boost from 5000 rpm
- get a TCU tune that shifts earlier at 5800 rpm
- run as much E85 mix as your fuel system can handle, about E40-60 and you will be safe
- For the fuel, CPI or/and a better High fuel pressure pump will do miracle! Talk to Terry for these steps and he will help.

Next step is to to have an ECU tune for E85 (needs an EK1) that have a higher timing and also less torque limits. You will get a faster car with more timing and less boost (than the opposite). Most guys her on Forum just see and want as much boost as possible. That wont work at all, car will be faster with a straighter boost curve, more timing and earlier shift. Turbos (and also pistons, headgasket) are the limit so you need to work with what you have here.

If you can... try to shift manual and see how it feels. Good luck.

 

[See3Pee01971]

I haven’t considered this yet, this sounds like it would 100% be worth looking into. Are you concerned that having ethanol mixtures that high will start to corrode your fuel lines or cause any form of mechanical issues? Who did your BEF, Was it BMS? I’m asking because I’d like to stick with my JB4, but not sure how I’d go about getting further tuning done.

My main concern is dumping money into the engine for minimal HP returns. I had considered getting a LAP3 ECU & TCU tune, and WMI kit which would put me past 500awhp for sure, but it would end up costing me around $5,000 to only gain 50-75hp.

My very rough guess is that I make in the ballpark of 420-450 hp when I’m running my E30 mix on map 4.

However, if it is as simple as getting the full CPI kit (which is less than $1,000), to gain about 100 hp (what BMS website says) I’m all in. Just want to confirm I’m not going to get myself into major reliability troubles.

Not concerned with the E causing damage. Most cars after about 2000 or so don’t have any issues, and mostly there are a lot of benefits outside of the extra HP you can get from it. (better cooling in the combustion chamber etc). Would I leave a half tank of E60 sitting in my car and not drive it for 6 months, NO. But remember that with the EK1, you can flash back to stock or a milder tune within minutes, and go out a tank of 93 in it. No big deal.

Yes I went full BMS BEF on ECU, and the BMS TCU tune is fantastic. As others have mentioned changing the shift points in Sport Mode makes a world of difference. CPI was also a must to get the fuel pressure up when running the tune. And yes, everyone should understand that at a certain point you are chasing a 1/4 second or a couple handfuls of HP here and there. But that’s the fun of it. You can always just stay on the JB4 and have a hell of a fun ride, while still keeping everything safe for long term usage.

I’ve got a Dyno hit scheduled for next week, and I’ll post when I have results. Hopefully that can help people make some decisions.

 

[Iguana]

Not concerned with the E causing damage. Most cars after about 2000 or so don’t have any issues, and mostly there are a lot of benefits outside of the extra HP you can get from it. (better cooling in the combustion chamber etc). Would I leave a half tank of E60 sitting in my car and not drive it for 6 months, NO. But remember that with the EK1, you can flash back to stock or a milder tune within minutes, and go out a tank of 93 in it. No big deal.

Yes I went full BMS BEF on ECU, and the BMS TCU tune is fantastic. As others have mentioned changing the shift points in Sport Mode makes a world of difference. CPI was also a must to get the fuel pressure up when running the tune. And yes, everyone should understand that at a certain point you are chasing a 1/4 second or a couple handfuls of HP here and there. But that’s the fun of it. You can always just stay on the JB4 and have a hell of a fun ride, while still keeping everything safe for long term usage.

I’ve got a Dyno hit scheduled for next week, and I’ll post when I have results. Hopefully that can help people make some decisions.

Ok great info thank! I’m excited to see those dyno results!

 

[Iguana]

E85 is much more safe than gas. My advice would be:

- run JB4 FW 31 for more straight boost curve
- run WG wires to adjust up boost from 5000 rpm
- get a TCU tune that shifts earlier at 5800 rpm
- run as much E85 mix as your fuel system can handle, about E40-60 and you will be safe
- For the fuel, CPI or/and a better High fuel pressure pump will do miracle! Talk to Terry for these steps and he will help.

Might be a dumb question, but what is the JB4 “FW 31”?

 

[See3Pee01971]

Might be a dumb question, but what is the JB4 “FW 31”?

Fuel Wires?

 

[rbjohnson78]

Might be a dumb question, but what is the JB4 “FW 31”?

Firmware v31

Also with the race fuel, where did you get it from? The 110 around here is leaded and not good for the car.

 

[Iguana]

Got it from a gas station near me owned by a big time drag racer here. Honestly didn’t even think to check to make sure it was unleaded. I think I’m gonna stick with an ethanol mixture anyway.

 

[TheBeginning]

I had a similar experience where the higher maps were underwhelming compared to the lower maps. My logs looked good too.
My hypothesis is that the waste gate duty cycle is maxed out. The waste gate is a valve on the turbo that allows exhaust gas to bypass the turbine. The ecu closes/opens this valve to send more or less exhaust gas through the turbine which is how it controls turbo speed and as a result boost. The signal from the ecu to the waste gate is the waste gate duty cycle (wgdc). So when the jb4 tells the ecu that the manifold pressure is low, the ecu adjusts the wgdc which closes the waste gate, sending more exhaust gas through the turbo, spinning it and creating boost. I think for some of the higher maps, the jb4 is asking for more boost than the ecu can provide and it’s maxing out the wgdc. BMS sells waste gate wires which control this better. I’m going to grab a pair at some point.

 

[Iguana]

I had a similar experience where the higher maps were underwhelming compared to the lower maps. My logs looked good too.
My hypothesis is that the waste gate duty cycle is maxed out. The waste gate is a valve on the turbo that allows exhaust gas to bypass the turbine. The ecu closes/opens this valve to send more or less exhaust gas through the turbine which is how it controls turbo speed and as a result boost. The signal from the ecu to the waste gate is the waste gate duty cycle (wgdc). So when the jb4 tells the ecu that the manifold pressure is low, the ecu adjusts the wgdc which closes the waste gate, sending more exhaust gas through the turbo, spinning it and creating boost. I think for some of the higher maps, the jb4 is asking for more boost than the ecu can provide and it’s maxing out the wgdc. BMS sells waste gate wires which control this better. I’m going to grab a pair at some point.

When you end up getting those let us know an update, I’d be very curious to see if that solves our issue.