Eibach springs and sways

[MerlintheMad]

Man, we are going in circles and circles. Tight (not freely moveable) sway is not a sway. I don't think thicker bar would have been much expensive than current. Please learn how sways work and then try to understand how locked bar wouldn't.

The final effect is the clincher. If a design takes a sway that gets closer to what amount of body roll is wanted, but handling or body roll is still unacceptable, then it's back to the drawing board so to speak. All the while that the design and prototype stuff is being thrashed out, the economics of the project are holding it back. Somebody tries something unorthodox and it works. Voila!? And you have a sway bar that is clamped down. It can still move (because the car is heavy), so technically not "locked". And it offends (you) because it isn't doing what a sway bar is supposed to do. But, it works. And it's cheaper. That's my hypothesis after all this verbiage exchange. Kia did a "no-no" but it works.

 

[YOWStinger]

I think when it comes down to it, the Stinger still handles reasonably well, the only people it's offending are probably the people (perhaps like myself) who are looking for more specific bound/re-bound/spring rate/roll characteristics. I've put Eibach pro kits and some combination of sways on every hobby car I've owned. The VW GTi is pretty universally renowned for its stock handling, and it still gets benefit out of springs and sways.

No matter what car I buy, I'm probably going to do it anyway because I've always felt that Eibach nails that "better than stock" balance, and I've never really wanted to go beyond with cranked up and slammed coil overs. Bang for your buck, it's pretty hard to beat Eibach.

 

[Ruturaj]

The final effect is the clincher. If a design takes a sway that gets closer to what amount of body roll is wanted, but handling or body roll is still unacceptable, then it's back to the drawing board so to speak. All the while that the design and prototype stuff is being thrashed out, the economics of the project are holding it back. Somebody tries something unorthodox and it works. Voila!? And you have a sway bar that is clamped down. It can still move (because the car is heavy), so technically not "locked". And it offends (you) because it isn't doing what a sway bar is supposed to do. But, it works. And it's cheaper. That's my hypothesis after all this verbiage exchange. Kia did a "no-no" but it works.

I am thinking now that it was unintentional, may be the bushings are wrong (and might get recalled?).

@Manaz what do you disagree upon?

 

[cornpop1]

Does anyone have this setup with a regular GT (non-adjustable dampers)? Is the ride quality the same just a bit stiffer? I am ready to buy, I just don't want it to be bouncing around in the future like a cheap lowering spring setup on stock shocks.

 

[YOWStinger]

Does anyone have this setup with a regular GT (non-adjustable dampers)? Is the ride quality the same just a bit stiffer? I am ready to buy, I just don't want it to be bouncing around in the future like a cheap lowering spring setup on stock shocks.

I've got a GT Limited (GT2), however, I would suggest that Eibach tests and matches their springs very nicely to stock shocks, I don't expect you would be disappointed. The only other thing to be aware of is that most springs for the Stinger are weighted for an AWD car, so spring rate in the front will feel a little different.

 

[Manaz]

@Manaz what do you disagree upon?

The dismissive nature of your post.

 

[Ruturaj]

The dismissive nature of your post.

Do you felt i was dismissive towards merlin or stock sways? What are your thoughts?

I assume you went through the previous conversation, because if you take things out of context then the my post might sound bad.

 

[Manaz]

Do you felt i was dismissive towards merlin or stock sways? What are your thoughts?

I assume you went through the previous conversation, because if you take things out of context then the my post might sound bad.

No, I was specifically referring to the post I rated. This part in particular:

Please learn how sways work and then try to understand how locked bar wouldn't.

It's dismissive and insulting - I don't believe you were referring to me when you said it (as I'm actually arguing the same point as you), but it doesn't matter who your audience is, if you talk to them like this, you're going to get their backs up, and that's not something we need on community-based forums.

On whether I read the previous conversation - I've read every post in this thread, and I've already contributed my thoughts on the matter, in quite some detail (in this thread and the other Eibach swaybar thread that you're also in).

 

[MerlintheMad]

It's dismissive and insulting - I don't believe you were referring to me when you said it (as I'm actually arguing the same point as you), but it doesn't matter who your audience is, if you talk to them like this, you're going to get their backs up, and that's not something we need on community-based forums.

Well, @Ruturaj was responding to my post and telling me to learn how sway bars work, so if anyone should "get his back up" it should be me. But I don't feel insulted, since not being a car guy means that practically everything I get into discussion on I have a lot to learn anyways.

I'm picking up on how sway bars work as I go. My responses are mostly taking what others say or assert and trying to fit it together. I can have ongoing opinions, one of which I will share now:

I am thinking now that it was unintentional, may be the bushings are wrong (and might get recalled?).

I don't think that anything about the Stinger is unintentional from production going forward. The OE sway bars were chosen in tandem with the rest of the suspension because the whole package makes the car feel and handle and ride they way its designers intended, or as close as humanly possible within budget.

One of the things that Kia pushed in the promotional materials was the free hand the conceptual designers and the later hardware engineers had in pursuing this concept car (a retro cues approach to a modern Gran Turismo, "redefined"): when they say this:

"What's possible when there's nothing holding you back? When you're free to create the car of your dreams, without history weighing you down? What can you achieve with a blank slate, a deep bench of legendary talent, an irrepressible spirit, and seven years to design, engineer, and fine-tune that dream into reality? We know. Now it's your turn to find out."

That's a lot of hype, sure it is. But it also says a lot about the concept through design that this original platform came to us as a production car.

You can't really support your assertion with anything. Seven years from concept to production, and Kia unintentionally muffed the sway bar bushings?

 

[Ruturaj]

Well, @Ruturaj was responding to my post and telling me to learn how sway bars work, so if anyone should "get his back up" it should be me. But I don't feel insulted, since not being a car guy means that practically everything I get into discussion on I have a lot to learn anyways.

I'm picking up on how sway bars work as I go. My responses are mostly taking what others say or assert and trying to fit it together. I can have ongoing opinions, one of which I will share now:

I don't think that anything about the Stinger is unintentional from production going forward. The OE sway bars were chosen in tandem with the rest of the suspension because the whole package makes the car feel and handle and ride they way its designers intended, or as close as humanly possible within budget.

One of the things that Kia pushed in the promotional materials was the free hand the conceptual designers and the later hardware engineers had in pursuing this concept car (a retro cues approach to a modern Gran Turismo, "redefined"): when they say this:

"What's possible when there's nothing holding you back? When you're free to create the car of your dreams, without history weighing you down? What can you achieve with a blank slate, a deep bench of legendary talent, an irrepressible spirit, and seven years to design, engineer, and fine-tiune that dream into reality? We know. Now it's your turn to find out."

That's a lot of hype, sure it is. But it also says a lot about the concept through design that this original platform came to us as a production car.

You can't really support your assertion with anything. Seven years from concept to production, and Kia unintentionally muffed the sway bar bushings?

I meant defective/out of specs bushing on few. I created a thread for this discussion though.

How Eibach upgrade on locked* stock sways affects the Stinger

 

[certified82]

Hello all just rebumping this thread after a long time! I have a 2023 GT Elite AWD and have a set of Eibach F&R sways that I'm going to get the dealer to install for me. Also thinking about the Eibach Pro springs as well. Those who have been running this set up on their vehicles for quite some time now, do you have any issues with noise/creaks from the springs and sways? Any regrets? Anything you shoulda done instead? I appreciate you guys, thanks in advance!

 

[NS_Stinger]

Hello all just rebumping this thread after a long time! I have a 2023 GT Elite AWD and have a set of Eibach F&R sways that I'm going to get the dealer to install for me. Also thinking about the Eibach Pro springs as well. Those who have been running this set up on their vehicles for quite some time now, do you have any issues with noise/creaks from the springs and sways? Any regrets? Anything you shoulda done instead? I appreciate you guys, thanks in advance!

I have been running the Eibach F&R sway bars for years, zero regrets. I still say theyre the best mod, I have to grease my front sway bar every 6-12 months otherwise it will begin to squeak over things like speedbumps. A quick shot of grease through the zerk fittings and its good to go. I think i had to grease the rear once in the past 3-4 years.

 

[certified82]

I have been running the Eibach F&R sway bars for years, zero regrets. I still say theyre the best mod, I have to grease my front sway bar every 6-12 months otherwise it will begin to squeak over things like speedbumps. A quick shot of grease through the zerk fittings and its good to go. I think i had to grease the rear once in the past 3-4 years.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Snicklefritz]

Likewise, I have been running Eibach front and rear sways for years. They were just greased a few weeks ago because after c. ten months I was starting to notice the creak at slow speed returning in front - haven't actually heard any noises from the rear bar.

On the 3.3L AWD the rear bar improved stability in the rear but induced oversteer when cornering fast. The added front bar took that away, or moved oversteer out to the point where you can tell losing adhesion is getting close and the tires are starting to make noise, then oversteer also approaches, the steering starts to feel light. I don't know if actual snap into oversteer will happen when adhesion point is reached, because I am too chicken to find out still. Hah.

The other benefit of adding the front bar was steering feedback throughout a curve. It's hard to describe in few words. The steering with OEM sway bar in front, with Eibach in back, was not exactly unsettled, but it wasn't nearly as confidence-inspiring - probably because the stiffening of the rear sway bar means oversteer becomes a thing, as I already said, or a tendency, where OEM sways rather tend toward understeer instead.

Interestingly, the OEM sways on the 2.0L car feel perfectly suited. Ima guessing that the weight distribution with the lighter engine is the difference. It feels more responsive and nimble cornering than the heavier car. Aftermarket sways are, in my opinion, unnecessary on the 2.0L - and I assume the 2.5L feels the same. I only had one test drive in a '22 GT-Line, 2.5L, and naturally I was trying to compare it to our Premium. And they felt the same cornering near as I could tell.

 

[certified82]

Likewise, I have been running Eibach front and rear sways for years. They were just greased a few weeks ago because after c. ten months I was starting to notice the creak at slow speed returning in front - haven't actually heard any noises from the rear bar.

On the 3.3L AWD the rear bar improved stability in the rear but induced oversteer when cornering fast. The added front bar took that away, or moved oversteer out to the point where you can tell losing adhesion is getting close and the tires are starting to make noise, then oversteer also approaches, the steering starts to feel light. I don't know if actual snap into oversteer will happen when adhesion point is reached, because I am too chicken to find out still. Hah.

The other benefit of adding the front bar was steering feedback throughout a curve. It's hard to describe in few words. The steering with OEM sway bar in front, with Eibach in back, was not exactly unsettled, but it wasn't nearly as confidence-inspiring - probably because the stiffening of the rear sway bar means oversteer becomes a thing, as I already said, or a tendency, where OEM sways rather tend toward understeer instead.

Interestingly, the OEM sways on the 2.0L car feel perfectly suited. Ima guessing that the weight distribution with the lighter engine is the difference. It feels more responsive and nimble cornering than the heavier car. Aftermarket sways are, in my opinion, unnecessary on the 2.0L - and I assume the 2.5L feels the same. I only had one test drive in a '22 GT-Line, 2.5L, and naturally I was trying to compare it to our Premium. And they felt the same cornering near as I could tell.

Thank you for your detailed feedback. Much appreciated. I'm wondering if I should pull the trigger on springs, I like the aesthetics of how the car would look after, but also worried about the side effects of running springs.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Thank you for your detailed feedback. Much appreciated. I'm wondering if I should pull the trigger on springs, I like the aesthetics of how the car would look after, but also worried about the side effects of running springs.

Practicality in the real world tells me to avoid going any lower on this already low car. If I had to fill up the wheel wells more, I would get 20" wheels. - but then you get speedometer inaccuracy issues, so it's a balance between aesthetics and function. Side effects that I have seen described here include alignment issues that won't entirely go away and stay away. Tire wear results, sometimes quite severely uneven. I don't know why some have these problems and others are happy as clams lowered and never suffer. I do know this, one inch lower is all it takes to kill a car if you run over something sticking up that you don't see. And winter, why reduce your clearance if you drive in snow conditions? Makes no sense to me.

 

[certified82]

Practicality in the real world tells me to avoid going any lower on this already low car. If I had to fill up the wheel wells more, I would get 20" wheels. - but then you get speedometer inaccuracy issues, so it's a balance between aesthetics and function. Side effects that I have seen described here include alignment issues that won't entirely go away and stay away. Tire wear results, sometimes quite severely uneven. I don't know why some have these problems and others are happy as clams lowered and never suffer. I do know this, one inch lower is all it takes to kill a car if you run over something sticking up that you don't see. And winter, why reduce your clearance if you drive in snow conditions? Makes no sense to me.

I the first pic with my 20" Niche Verona's, my car looks lowered, but I'm not. In the second photo you can see the fender gap which isn't too bad. I guess with your justification it makes me realize about the regrets I might have.

 

[LordKOTL]

Likewise, I have been running Eibach front and rear sways for years. They were just greased a few weeks ago because after c. ten months I was starting to notice the creak at slow speed returning in front - haven't actually heard any noises from the rear bar.

On the 3.3L AWD the rear bar improved stability in the rear but induced oversteer when cornering fast. The added front bar took that away, or moved oversteer out to the point where you can tell losing adhesion is getting close and the tires are starting to make noise, then oversteer also approaches, the steering starts to feel light. I don't know if actual snap into oversteer will happen when adhesion point is reached, because I am too chicken to find out still. Hah.

The other benefit of adding the front bar was steering feedback throughout a curve. It's hard to describe in few words. The steering with OEM sway bar in front, with Eibach in back, was not exactly unsettled, but it wasn't nearly as confidence-inspiring - probably because the stiffening of the rear sway bar means oversteer becomes a thing, as I already said, or a tendency, where OEM sways rather tend toward understeer instead.

Interestingly, the OEM sways on the 2.0L car feel perfectly suited. Ima guessing that the weight distribution with the lighter engine is the difference. It feels more responsive and nimble cornering than the heavier car. Aftermarket sways are, in my opinion, unnecessary on the 2.0L - and I assume the 2.5L feels the same. I only had one test drive in a '22 GT-Line, 2.5L, and naturally I was trying to compare it to our Premium. And they felt the same cornering near as I could tell.

Good write up of how the sways feel on the 3.3tt AWD. It's exactly how I would describe it: better turn in response, but it's right on the border balancing between oversteer and losing traction. She feels planted and balanced; moreso than stock.

 

[certified82]

Good write up of how the sways feel on the 3.3tt AWD. It's exactly how I would describe it: better turn in response, but it's right on the border balancing between oversteer and losing traction. She feels planted and balanced; moreso than stock.

Thanks for your feedback as well LordKOTL, may I ask if you are just running the sways or did you run springs as well? Cheers.

 

[LordKOTL]

Thanks for your feedback as well LordKOTL, may I ask if you are just running the sways or did you run springs as well? Cheers.

Just sways. I like the stock height. Plus, not every speed bump is an adventure.