Turbo upgrade

[GennyGuy]

Hey guys, trying to plan out the next phases for my car and could use some insight into the experiences of those that have upgraded the turbos on our platform.

From what I can see, there are 2 main (well-advertised) options for upgrading the turbos. The Pure Turbos seem to be a hybrid turbo option and the Lap3 route (Xcargot) seems to be a complete turbo kit.

I'm mainly interested in the E/Ts that people that have gone the Pure Turbo have gotten. A few of the Lap3 cars are posting 60-130s, but not seeing much of any 1/8, 1/4, or 1/2 mile runs. If you don't want it public, dm me. There's a huge cost difference between the 2 and it'd be helpful to see what my money is actually getting me before pulling the trigger.

Ask me any questions that might help you answer mine. Thanks.

 

[Jason S]

Same boat as you GG if anyone please
Thanks.

 

[General_Vodka]

As long as you guys are content with being rollers only, then I wish y'all the best of luck. Both kits are able to push the power to where our tq converts say "aight I'm out". So far I have only heard of one case where someone was able to get the tq convert beefed up enough to handle the power.

 

[GennyGuy]

As long as you guys are content with being rollers only, then I wish y'all the best of luck. Both kits are able to push the power to where our tq converts say "aight I'm out". So far I have only heard of one case where someone was able to get the tq convert beefed up enough to handle the power.

Thanks for feedback. I wonder what that ended up costing? Something else to look up.

 

[oddball]

You're well into custom/unusual territory here. Better to just establish your goals, then work with someone to achieve those goals. Also depends how much work you're willing to do, your knowledge/skill, and if you're outsourcing - then who you're outsourcing to and what they can accomplish.
The Koreans seem more interested in roll racing than drag racing, so yeah..... I could be snarky and say getting a car like this to launch is the hard part....
The converter was likely fully custom, so easily $2k-$5k. Anything can be made out of billet - just someone has to have the program and the machine time.

 

[Jason S]

As long as you guys are content with being rollers only, then I wish y'all the best of luck. Both kits are able to push the power to where our tq converts say "aight I'm out". So far I have only heard of one case where someone was able to get the tq convert beefed up enough to handle the power.

Gotcha!

 

[Jason S]

You're well into custom/unusual territory here. Better to just establish your goals, then work with someone to achieve those goals. Also depends how much work you're willing to do, your knowledge/skill, and if you're outsourcing - then who you're outsourcing to and what they can accomplish.
The Koreans seem more interested in roll racing than drag racing, so yeah..... I could be snarky and say getting a car like this to launch is the hard part....
The converter was likely fully custom, so easily $2k-$5k. Anything can be made out of billet - just someone has to have the program and the machine time.

 

[GennyGuy]

You're well into custom/unusual territory here. Better to just establish your goals, then work with someone to achieve those goals. Also depends how much work you're willing to do, your knowledge/skill, and if you're outsourcing - then who you're outsourcing to and what they can accomplish.
The Koreans seem more interested in roll racing than drag racing, so yeah..... I could be snarky and say getting a car like this to launch is the hard part....
The converter was likely fully custom, so easily $2k-$5k. Anything can be made out of billet - just someone has to have the program and the machine time.

I know myself well enough to know that the goals will probably continue to evolve. The roll racing aspect isn't surprising given the region. The harder part for me will be finding someone I trust to do the work. This will probably limit me the most in terms of how far I go with the car.

 

[oddball]

Well......
The Pure hybrid turbos can be installed by anyone that's sufficiently competent since it uses stock housings - it's a by-the-book R&R. The Lap3 big turbos are waaaay more complicated. That's what really drives the cost. For the lap3 setup not only is it the turbos, but all the piping and accessories to make them work where they really don't fit. So whoever undertakes that needs to be really into doing custom work. Regardless of how good the kit is, there will be a lot of fitting and adapting to actually make it work.

Of course, then there's the ECU tuning. Burger has done incredible stuff with the JB4, but a piggyback can only go so far. Sooner or later you gotta go with a tuned ECU or a custom ECU (motek).

And if you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole, Tork is experimenting with a solid deck conversion and just did some porting on a set of heads (oh, wait, that's right, the only thing that changes performance on a forced induction engine is boost. this must be a complete waste. hah!).


Seriously, if you're on your own then I'd strongly recommend a JB4, EWG wires and meth injection. Play with it, have fun, experiment with tires. Maybe swap out the primary cats and spend the time getting things to work in that setup. Or go the Tork stage 2 route, but those options aren't all that distant from each other. Going full custom requires a ton of support. I literally build cars and I wouldn't do it on this car because I'm not going to figure out the ECU tuning myself and there's no one in my area doing this kind of work on this platform.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I saved these pics a couple or three years ago. Are they one of the options discussed here, or are they "outliers"? Just curious to know more.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

I saved these pics a couple or three years ago. Are they one of the options discussed here, or are they "outliers"? Just curious to know more.
View attachment 69959View attachment 69960

The white car looks like the factory turbos. the red car is def not factory

 

[GennyGuy]

Well......
The Pure hybrid turbos can be installed by anyone that's sufficiently competent since it uses stock housings - it's a by-the-book R&R. The Lap3 big turbos are waaaay more complicated. That's what really drives the cost. For the lap3 setup not only is it the turbos, but all the piping and accessories to make them work where they really don't fit. So whoever undertakes that needs to be really into doing custom work. Regardless of how good the kit is, there will be a lot of fitting and adapting to actually make it work.

Of course, then there's the ECU tuning. Burger has done incredible stuff with the JB4, but a piggyback can only go so far. Sooner or later you gotta go with a tuned ECU or a custom ECU (motek).

And if you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole, Tork is experimenting with a solid deck conversion and just did some porting on a set of heads (oh, wait, that's right, the only thing that changes performance on a forced induction engine is boost. this must be a complete waste. hah!).


Seriously, if you're on your own then I'd strongly recommend a JB4, EWG wires and meth injection. Play with it, have fun, experiment with tires. Maybe swap out the primary cats and spend the time getting things to work in that setup. Or go the Tork stage 2 route, but those options aren't all that distant from each other. Going full custom requires a ton of support. I literally build cars and I wouldn't do it on this car because I'm not going to figure out the ECU tuning myself and there's no one in my area doing this kind of work on this platform.

I guess I should have listed some stuff to help your answer......I've already done the JB4. The car is on it's 2nd dedicated ecu tune. There is a shop not too far from me doing development on this platform. I understand that the Lap3 kit is a complete kit, I listed that when I started the discussion.

Maybe my question is not clear, so I'll try again. I'm interested in specifically how much faster one is bs the other. How can you just an $8K+ spread with no numbers behind it. Unless I missed somewhere on their website which is entirely possible. The torque converter you pointed out was a good piece of information I didn't realize was one of the upgrade points necessary to address for the type of racing I want to do.

I'm gonna assume your joke was just that, a joke and not an assumption that I would be as uninformed as to think that boost is the only way to increase performance. If not, you were an a**hole.

Seriously, I said I'm trying to plan out the next phases for the car. Before making a decision on which route I go (which could also include a built motor or selling the car), I'm looking for feedback from people that have gone one of the routes I'm considering.

I'm pretty sure I even mentioned to ask me questions that might help you answer mine. So to surmise, I'm interested in data. If you have E/Ts, I'm interested. If you have seen/heard/been advised that another component will need an upgrade for the upgraded turbo routes, I'm interested. If there's a question that I didn't cover that you think will help the discussion, I'm interested.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

I guess I should have listed some stuff to help your answer......I've already done the JB4. The car is on it's 2nd dedicated ecu tune. There is a shop not too far from me doing development on this platform. I understand that the Lap3 kit is a complete kit, I listed that when I started the discussion.

Maybe my question is not clear, so I'll try again. I'm interested in specifically how much faster one is bs the other. How can you just an $8K+ spread with no numbers behind it. Unless I missed somewhere on their website which is entirely possible. The torque converter you pointed out was a good piece of information I didn't realize was one of the upgrade points necessary to address for the type of racing I want to do.

I'm gonna assume your joke was just that, a joke and not an assumption that I would be as uninformed as to think that boost is the only way to increase performance. If not, you were an a**hole.

Seriously, I said I'm trying to plan out the next phases for the car. Before making a decision on which route I go (which could also include a built motor or selling the car), I'm looking for feedback from people that have gone one of the routes I'm considering.

I'm pretty sure I even mentioned to ask me questions that might help you answer mine. So to surmise, I'm interested in data. If you have E/Ts, I'm interested. If you have seen/heard/been advised that another component will need an upgrade for the upgraded turbo routes, I'm interested. If there's a question that I didn't cover that you think will help the discussion, I'm interested.

Am following for sure, as I am very interested in what you find out. Is the 1.4bar not fast enough for you?

 

[AtomicGTL]

The white car looks like the factory turbos. the red car is def not factory

inb4 that red car is yours when you pop the hood

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

inb4 that red car is yours when you pop the hood

Unfortunately not, my car is much more like the white one currently, I saw it today myself.

 

[GennyGuy]

I saved these pics a couple or three years ago. Are they one of the options discussed here, or are they "outliers"? Just curious to know more.View attachment 69960

I believe that red one is the first Stinger to get the Lap3 turbo upgrade if I'm remembering correctly. I saw the same setup on a big turbo G70 awhile back and it had the same setup.

 

[GennyGuy]

Am following for sure, as I am very interested in what you find out. Is the 1.4bar not fast enough for you?

No, it's not fast enough for me, but that's not because it's slow. I just outgrew it.

1.4 is plenty fast, the car has gone 11.66@117mph (dragy) on that tune and not much else. Honestly, my mods list for that run is kinda hilarious because of how much stuff was still stock.

Anyway, I had been on the fence between 1.4 and 1.5 ever since before I ordered my first tune. Ultimately, I played it safe and went less boost. The difference in psi is small, it's 1.4 psi more for the 1.5 bar. The main reason I switched is because according to Lozic, I should be 1.5 for wmi. I felt that the increase was still in a "safe" area.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

No, it's not fast enough for me, but that's not because it's slow. I just outgrew it.

1.4 is plenty fast, the car has gone 11.66@117mph (dragy) on that tune and not much else. Honestly, my mods list for that run is kinda hilarious because of how much stuff was still stock.

Anyway, I had been on the fence between 1.4 and 1.5 ever since before I ordered my first tune. Ultimately, I played it safe and went less boost. The difference in psi is small, it's 1.4 psi more for the 1.5 bar. The main reason I switched is because according to Lozic, I should be 1.5 for wmi. I felt that the increase was still in a "safe" area.

That's an interesting thought process, and I have a feeling its not going to be fast enough for me either, even though this is my daily driver. That speed itch is a real bitch. I was hoping to be able to get this car as fast as I possibly can without going meth, cuz once you go meth, it becomes a real bitch to take off for warranty work. I have yet to get my car back yet, but the engine replacement is in the final stages thankfully, so we should know soon enough. I feel like Meth, an intercooler, snorkels, and working with lozic to increase the tune capabilities, will probably be the last mods ill be doing to this car to improve my 1/4 mile times, mainly because I'm not sure what else to do besides go big turbo, which if I wanted to do that, id rather sink the money into my dedicated fun car, which will hopefully be getting a proper paint job for the first time in 20 years this summer.

 

[oddball]

I guess I should have listed some stuff to help your answer......I've already done the JB4. The car is on it's 2nd dedicated ecu tune. There is a shop not too far from me doing development on this platform. I understand that the Lap3 kit is a complete kit, I listed that when I started the discussion.

Maybe my question is not clear, so I'll try again. I'm interested in specifically how much faster one is bs the other. How can you just an $8K+ spread with no numbers behind it. Unless I missed somewhere on their website which is entirely possible. The torque converter you pointed out was a good piece of information I didn't realize was one of the upgrade points necessary to address for the type of racing I want to do.

I'm gonna assume your joke was just that, a joke and not an assumption that I would be as uninformed as to think that boost is the only way to increase performance. If not, you were an a**hole.

Seriously, I said I'm trying to plan out the next phases for the car. Before making a decision on which route I go (which could also include a built motor or selling the car), I'm looking for feedback from people that have gone one of the routes I'm considering.

I'm pretty sure I even mentioned to ask me questions that might help you answer mine. So to surmise, I'm interested in data. If you have E/Ts, I'm interested. If you have seen/heard/been advised that another component will need an upgrade for the upgraded turbo routes, I'm interested. If there's a question that I didn't cover that you think will help the discussion, I'm interested.

Gotcha, that helps. We have a ton of folks on here that can't tell which end of a screwdriver to use, but want to jump straight to turbo swaps. And I have a personal mini-feud with a guy that's convinced that - literally - the only thing that matters for an FI engine is the MAP.

Anyway, there's extremely few people doing the type of stuff you're talking about. I would bet money there's less than 20 turbo swapped cars in the world. So there just won't be good data. And the few that are doing it keep all the information very close to the chest because they're all paranoid.

So nothing hard and fast to go on. Taking a look at theory, the factory turbos start to cavitate in the 18psi-20psi range. The pure hybrids should raise that to the 24-ish range. The Lap3 should be able to go well past that.
But now you're into the realm of one-off and stuff will start breaking. Where, realistically, is the breaking point for the block, crank, rods, trans, driveshaft, diff, axles? Dunno, but probably in that neighborhood.

And if you're talking drag times, then it's also time to look at the rear suspension. Probably needs to be replaced with something custom that's more suited for drag use.

 

[General_Vodka]

But now you're into the realm of one-off and stuff will start breaking. Where, realistically, is the breaking point for the block, crank, rods, trans, driveshaft, diff, axles? Dunno, but probably in that neighborhood.

The head bolts start to stretch a bit under high boost, allowing the heads to lift up a tiny bit. This eventually screws the head gasket.
As previously mentioned, our tq converters quit after repeated high tq launches.
Axels can break if your lowered even with very few power mods.
The diff mounting bolts for the rear diff can break after a lot of hard launches. Not surprised since there is a ton of play with the rear diff. A diff brace helps fix this issue.