3.3TT JB4 Longterm Engine Wear & Truth About "Traceability"

[IG88]

Hi all:

What are the longer term affects on the GT's V6 engine as a whole over lets say 5 years? Is an owner ultimately going to be replacing more parts and "wear" items more often than running stock? Do you shorten the drive life of the car at all? I know this is a subjective question. Also I've talked to several people about whether the JB4 is TRULY untraceable and get conflicting answers. I spoke with a rep at Burger on chat and he had the below responses to some of my questions. I do however wan't your opinions if you can spare a moment, as I'm skeptical about answers from Burger who obviously have a vested interest in selling me the tuner.

1.) Question: Is the tuner truly untraceable?

Answer: " When removed, yes it's untraceable correct. It doesn't reprogram the computer like a flash program. "

2.) Question: If a dealer has a suspicion that the car has been tuned, can they see evidence on the car's CPU that the JB4 has been used if they intentionally look for it and/or possibly send it somewhere else for inspection if they are faced with a costly warranty claim?

Answer: " Not with a JB4. The computer can't see what it doesn't know. The JB4 intercepts it at the sensors so the ECU thinks its running stock. It's not reprogramming the computer. All boost levels etc are marked the same on the stock ECU. There is no way to trace it if its removed. They can look all they want. "

Any input on the above questions would be fantastic.

Andre/IG88

 

[Stock_stinger]

untraceable in that context means its not know that it was there. no mention if overboost or similar parameters are stored which i bet they are. ive seen the kia tool in person at the dealer. it even tracks misfires (and counts them per cylinder). whether they can prove that a piggyback caused any of the stored data is another thing.

as for wear and tear. yes it will last less time. thats how it always works. drive like a granny and itll last longer. drive like a racer, itll die faster. more boost, more turbo wear (thats my biggest worry) as they arent exactly stout turbos.

 

[Terry@BMS]

While the JB4 doesn't leave a trace behind when removed you should always pay for any damage you cause operating your vehicle in excess of the factory specifications. The dealer can always easily detect you purchased a JB4 by subpoenaing your credit card statements or just asking you if you did.

 

[mandasol]

My dealer knows about my mods and still warrantied issues that were common to my version of the car - fuel injector, fuel pump, ecu. If something came up and they denied warranty as likely due to the mods I would understand and pay out of pocket as part of the cost of modding and because it's the right thing to do.

 

[IG88]

Thanks all for the input. If I legitimately suspect any issues are due to JB4 use, I'd have no problem paying for it. I have a good relationship with my service guy too. One final question - Burger says map 1 or maybe it was 0 - reverts the parameters back to stock. Is this true stock or is there still some manipulation that is occurring? I really only want to use the JB4 off and on when I'm willing to burn the gas. The stock V6 TT GT sucks more gas than I thought, so I want to make sure I have the option to not "engage" the JB4 when I don't want to.

 

[snowmirage]

I have the JB4 installed in my 2019 AWD GT1 in my case the only thing that could give them any idea it was there are 2 pin holes in the wiring for the O2 Sensors. And we're talking about a very small wire here and literally a pin hole in the rubber sheathing. Other than that if I remove it no one would know. And I think... could be wrong here... they now offer a OEM style connector for that connection now for a small fee.

Here is my 2 cents thought process before I made the decision to install it.

What are the chances the JB4 is going to cause an issue with my car? Well I have spent the better part of a decade now dreaming of getting a BMW 335i or similar just so I could get this tuner. I spent hours and hours and hours reading reviews, forums etc to get a feel for how safe Burger Motorsports tunes are. If they make a good quality product for one engine its likely the case for others.

Even if I had a problem what are the chances its was the tuner that caused it? Again I spent hours and hours researching first, I feel confident its safe.

If something does break can I easily remove the tuner before bringing it to the dealer then play dumb? Yup give me 15 min and a pair of pliers and I can have it out.

Lastly ... and this is the important one!!!!....

If the tuner does cause a problem or something happens to my car and it isn't covered by a warranty can will I be financially screwed? If the answer is yes.... you probably shouldn't be tuning your car just yet, save money plan for life's left hooks then come back to it.


All that said, I've had nothing but great experiences so far with Burger. Even before I had my stinger and bought the JB4 I must have asked them for pdf's of installs for parts 5 or 6 times and a plethra of questions I coudn't find answers to online for cars I didnt even have. If you're ready to take the dive get the JB4 you wont be sorry, take your time during the install, change your spark plugs (thats the hardest part frankly) then email their support some logs of some pulls and slowly progress to higher maps if you desire.

I am also running the FuelIT sensor and its been great.

 

[Jayphil]

You should try to find a mod friendly dealer to be on the safe side and avoid having to lie. My KIA dealer will not void my warranty because of my mods if I use them for all the service work the car need which is a very fair proposal!

Also I have been running jb4 on my BMW for quite some time and it is an amazing product. If you run in comfort or even sport and not pushing it JB4 does not engage so leave it alone in whenever map you like.

 

[turboAWD]

untraceable in that context means its not know that it was there. no mention if overboost or similar parameters are stored which i bet they are. ive seen the kia tool in person at the dealer. it even tracks misfires (and counts them per cylinder). whether they can prove that a piggyback caused any of the stored data is another thing.

as for wear and tear. yes it will last less time. thats how it always works. drive like a granny and itll last longer. drive like a racer, itll die faster. more boost, more turbo wear (thats my biggest worry) as they arent exactly stout turbos.

Well, that's OFTEN the case. Sometimes, driving your car like a granny will cause carbon deposits / sludge formation (no full-throttle to burn off excess deposits) and can actually be worse for the car than driving it hard (within reason).

 

[turboAWD]

While the JB4 doesn't leave a trace behind when removed you should always pay for any damage you cause operating your vehicle in excess of the factory specifications. The dealer can always easily detect you purchased a JB4 by subpoenaing your credit card statements or just asking you if you did.

Some of us bought our jb4s used... how many online payment processors would they be able to subpoena, just in case I had an account there? Can they even compel me to reveal how many / which credit cards I have? What if I've since canceled the card? Just playing the what-if game

 

[ephone]

Some of us bought our jb4s used... how many online payment processors would they be able to subpoena, just in case I had an account there? Can they even compel me to reveal how many / which credit cards I have? What if I've since canceled the card? Just playing the what-if game

FFS, no dealer is going to subpoena your credit card info.

 

[Luc343]

Don't forget that Kia needs to approve any warranty work. If they refuse, the dealer cannot do anything about it.

If you are prepared to pay for repairs caused by any mods you may do, then you do not have to worry about it. Keep in mind, some repairs can run into the thousands, like blown piston rings, turbo damage and so on.

It's a risk that some will take and some will not.

 

[springspeed]

Some of us bought our jb4s used... how many online payment processors would they be able to subpoena, just in case I had an account there? Can they even compel me to reveal how many / which credit cards I have? What if I've since canceled the card? Just playing the what-if game

I'm not a lawyer, I don't think anybody can subpoena your CC records. See if BGM takes bitcoin, can't trace anything that way.

 

[Terry@BMS]

FFS, no dealer is going to subpoena your credit card info.

Only if it becomes a court case with discovery, seen it happen before with another brand. It was a complicated case though as the owner was also trying to claim his car was a lemon. He ended up losing and having to pay a ton in court fees lol. Just don't let it get to that point.

 

[ephone]

Only if it becomes a court case with discovery, seen it happen before with another brand. It was a complicated case though as the owner was also trying to claim his car was a lemon. He ended up losing and having to pay a ton in court fees lol. Just don't let it get to that point.

Sure, in litigation, everything is up for grabs, but there's a subset of people on car forums that have a strange mythical view of the car dealer as all powerful entities. No kid want's to grow up to be the service manager at a Kia dealership. If I worked in management at a car dealer, I'd rather tell people at a social event that I was a porn producer.

 

[Terry@BMS]

lol

 

[djerickd]

I've heard they can detect that torque limits have been exceeded.

 

[G-657668]

FYI - Manufacturers are requiring current ROM id's for any internal engine repairs or replacement. That's factual, not i heard... So, unless the JB4 changes the ROM id which i am not aware that it does, the only way to prove outside influence would be freeze frame data which is only available if when whatever happened caused the check engine light to come on. In that case, there would be freeze frame data associated with the code and that data would include boost and load.

 

[G-236516]

While the JB4 doesn't leave a trace behind when removed you should always pay for any damage you cause operating your vehicle in excess of the factory specifications. The dealer can always easily detect you purchased a JB4 by subpoenaing your credit card statements or just asking you if you did.

This claim is one of the biggest forum misinformation statements ever. Even if they knew you had one it still doesn't prove the JB4 caused the issue. They can't simply subpoena your statements without evidence. I suggest you read the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Every dealer I've ever talked to had no problem with professionally done mods.

 

[slimjim2525]

This claim is one of the biggest forum misinformation statements ever. Even if they knew you had one it still doesn't prove the JB4 caused the issue. They can't simply subpoena your statements without evidence. I suggest you read the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Every dealer I've ever talked to had no problem with professionally done mods.

You clearly don't understand how the real world works. You can throw around the MM act all you want. I can tell you from personal experience, they will just tell you "yeah we are not honoring your warranty, come get the car". Trust me, you will have no recourse.

 

[djohnson1967]

I haven't installed a JB4 yet, but plan to. As for traceability it seems like they would just need to look for the holes poked into the O2 sensor wires and evidence of any velcro or other wire-management, no?