Want top end power? WMI is the answer!

[ZyroXZ2]

I've been testing nozzles (I've been through 6!) and also trying to hunt down what's causing about 3* of KR that seems to rotate about cylinders, but even so, I just can't get over that WMI really unlocks the top end power the 3.3TT is missing. I recently bought a GoPro, so I decided to mount it to the steering column to combine some taking of test logs with it If you needed any convincing that WMI gives you top end power, here it is!

I have some suspicion that the KR rotates about cylinders because the WMI itself doesn't get distributed evenly across the intake manifold channels which randomly causes some cylinders to "starve" a bit, but that would unfortunately be something I can't change unless I go with custom work on doing direct port WMI. I have some new spark plugs on the way, though I don't see evidence of that being the cause with the way it basically randomly picks a cylinder when doing multiple logging runs.

Once I get the KR sorted, though, I think I might take actual intentional videos, do some dyno runs, and maybe make a trip to the track. I'm almost there!

 

[Avon]

What is your mod list? Water/meth mixture? Oh and what is KR? And feel free to share any more on the subject as I'm interested.
Thanks.

 

[djerickd]

What exhaust set up is that with the quad HFC's??

 

[Tonkabob]

What nozzle setup have you settled on after testing 6?
WMI seems to add 2-3 MPH in the 1/4 mile and will knock of 1 second in the 60-130.

 

[Toddasaurus]

Nice! I just finished installing my water/meth setup today. Using the JB4 to control it, right now my additive is at 60 using the WMI map and it feels pretty good, but I want more. Looks like I've got a bit of dissecting logs and tuning to do, hopefully I can increase the additive even more, safely.

 

[Kato_the_kia_stinger]

Love meth! 11.59.... meth was the missing piece. Anyone considering it, feel free to hit me up.

 

[General_Vodka]

Oh yeah spray that crack juice real good. Meth and nitrous are in my future

 

[ZyroXZ2]

What is your mod list? Water/meth mixture? Oh and what is KR? And feel free to share any more on the subject as I'm interested.
Thanks.

Listed under the video description, and currently 80/20. KR = Knock Retard, when the engine kills timing to reduce knock.

What exhaust set up is that with the quad HFC's??

It's custom, I added two more identical cats to the secondaries that match my primaries.

What nozzle setup have you settled on after testing 6?
WMI seems to add 2-3 MPH in the 1/4 mile and will knock of 1 second in the 60-130.

I ended up on a 640cc, and though videos of the speedo and logs show its IDENTICAL in speed to a 520cc, it has MORE KR. I think I'm getting rich KR, which would mean I COULD, in theory, add more boost in both scenarios.

Yes, I'm still troubleshooting 3* of KR, which is why I'm here since I don't have very positive things to say about LAP3 in terms of assisting my endeavor.

Nice! I just finished installing my water/meth setup today. Using the JB4 to control it, right now my additive is at 60 using the WMI map and it feels pretty good, but I want more. Looks like I've got a bit of dissecting logs and tuning to do, hopefully I can increase the additive even more, safely.

Yea, WMI makes a WORLD of difference on this engine and stock turbo setup. I was surprised at how much it wakes the engine up. I think part of that is because the turbos are so small, come on so early, and run so hot.

 

[Aarvix]

I'm just gonna assume KR = Kangaroo Rectum until someone defines it for me.

 

[Tonkabob]

Listed under the video description, and currently 80/20. KR = Knock Retard, when the engine kills timing to reduce knock.



It's custom, I added two more identical cats to the secondaries that match my primaries.



I ended up on a 640cc, and though videos of the speedo and logs show its IDENTICAL in speed to a 520cc, it has MORE KR. I think I'm getting rich KR, which would mean I COULD, in theory, add more boost in both scenarios.

Yes, I'm still troubleshooting 3* of KR, which is why I'm here since I don't have very positive things to say about LAP3 in terms of assisting my endeavor.



Yea, WMI makes a WORLD of difference on this engine and stock turbo setup. I was surprised at how much it wakes the engine up. I think part of that is because the turbos are so small, come on so early, and run so hot.

Why would rich cause knock? I could see going rich because of knock. Do you see KR during shifts by chance?
I've tried 400 to 755 ML

 

[ZyroXZ2]

Why would rich cause knock? I could see going rich because of knock. Do you see KR during shifts by chance?
I've tried 400 to 755 ML

An excess of fuel in the chamber means unburned fuel that, under the wrong conditions, can ignite secondarily. If you ignite and the combustion cascades but can't burn all (or enough of) the fuel, the remaining fuel could get ignited by a hotspot or other possible means (compression, even) before being exhausted. This is, of course, under boosted applications where the conditions in the chamber are just this much more chaotic where this can happen. This is always why I dread tuning boosted applications: there's the potential for more power; but also wayyy more potential for things to go wrong. Too lean AND too rich can both lead to knock.

Rich knock is pretty rare, but since the stoichiometric ratio for gasoline and methanol are different, adding more methanol really messes with the ideal AFR. Tuning for methanol actually requires quite a lot of precision, and while I thought LAP3 did in their Pro V2, I am now learning they're not really any more knowledgeable on it than I am and seem to be really still testing it themselves, sadly.

 

[Tonkabob]

An excess of fuel in the chamber means unburned fuel that, under the wrong conditions, can ignite secondarily. If you ignite and the combustion cascades but can't burn all (or enough of) the fuel, the remaining fuel could get ignited by a hotspot or other possible means (compression, even) before being exhausted. This is, of course, under boosted applications where the conditions in the chamber are just this much more chaotic where this can happen. This is always why I dread tuning boosted applications: there's the potential for more power; but also wayyy more potential for things to go wrong. Too lean AND too rich can both lead to knock.

Rich knock is pretty rare, but since the stoichiometric ratio for gasoline and methanol are different, adding more methanol really messes with the ideal AFR. Tuning for methanol actually requires quite a lot of precision, and while I thought LAP3 did in their Pro V2, I am now learning they're not really any more knowledgeable on it than I am and seem to be really still testing it themselves, sadly.

I don't claim to be super tuner but the ECU is tuned in Lambda which at least in my brain makes it easier to hit the right mixture on three fuels, one with half the Stoich of the other.
Even at 755ML 100% meth my AFRs stayed pretty stable and on target. At other times with much less meth i had temporary trim freezes around shifts and when that happened AFRs would drop. Lowering fuel pressure to just over stock seemed to fix that and keep the trims active. 755 did bring trims down to about 3-5 so back at 630 ML now and the trims hit 10 on a long run.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

I don't claim to be super tuner but the ECU is tuned in Lambda which at least in my brain makes it easier to hit the right mixture on three fuels, one with half the Stoich of the other.
Even at 755ML 100% meth my AFRs stayed pretty stable and on target. At other times with much less meth i had temporary trim freezes around shifts and when that happened AFRs would drop. Lowering fuel pressure to just over stock seemed to fix that and keep the trims active. 755 did bring trims down to about 3-5 so back at 630 ML now and the trims hit 10 on a long run.

Also, to answer your question, the KR remains constant through the upper 5000+ RPM range even through the shift. I had initially hoped it was false KR before I had adventured into troubleshooting it, but consistent logging under various conditions show the KR appear in the same RPM regions every single time.

Yea, I don't get to fine tune the fueling in the piggyback, which is where my disappointment in LAP3 is appearing since it now falls on them to refine the fueling and decide on a finalized mix recommendation based around their tuning.

Are you getting about 3* of KR in the upper RPM range on your current setup?

 

[djerickd]

Zyro what % of methanol/water are you spraying?

 

[SirJag63]

Love meth! 11.59.... meth was the missing piece. Anyone considering it, feel free to hit me up.

I'm interested... I would like to get below 12's. So tell me more, I have a JB4 tuner w/magnaflow exhaust. I keep my tune on 3 with 91 octane and it runs strong, but I can't beat those higher horse V8 and want to. So I'm saw you post and want to see what it takes.

 

[AtomicGTL]

I'm interested... I would like to get below 12's. So tell me more, I have a JB4 tuner w/magnaflow exhaust. I keep my tune on 3 with 91 octane and it runs strong, but I can't beat those higher horse V8 and want to. So I'm saw you post and want to see what it takes.

Could without wmi with dedicated ecu/tcu tune.

 

[Transmetal]

I see some of you have never heard of KR. Knock Retard is the killer of a supercharged motor. Have to constantly monitor that shit on my gen 2 Ford Lightning and I remember when I had 3800 series 2/3 motors with a supercharger. Was always fighting an uphill battle against it.

 

[SirJag63]

Could without wmi with dedicated ecu/tcu tune.

So how do you suggest when im running the jb4 450 tune kit.

 

[Satoshi’s stinger]

Im running basically the same kit I run Map 2 now I could probably get close with just all the bolt ons, However just to be sure the WMI kit is gonna be my next purchase