Proper 12v, Accessory, and Ignition wires

If you want to supply constant 12v, you’ll interface with it.

If it has a decent battery or a mode where it only enables when motion is detected based on the battery then you can go with ignition.

If there’s no internal battery then you only have 1 choice if you want parking mode to work and that’s 12v.

Not sure if the dash cam has an internal battery but I just learned the hardwire kit has both constant and ignition wires (and ground of course). So 12v and ignition it is.

In any case, I'm going to have a pro install these devices so I'll just mention what was learned here.
 
This isn't meant to serve as a comprehensive explanation for 12v vehicle electronics so I will spare some very important details.

However, there's power running to almost every connection point on the fusebox. The reason for actually is due to the design of the fusebox and the wiring on the back of the fusebox that supplies current. So yes, while there's live power running to it, that doesn't mean that the wire supplying that power, once again on the back of the box, is suitable for the load that you are introducing by adding fuses to it. Additionally, you do not know what vital system component (BCM, ECM, etc.) is also sharing current with that same circuit for which you are adding.

Splicing into existing wires is a long proven method od accurately integrating components into a vehicle where the electrical load is well established (i.e., closed system). Furthermore, you are not adding to the existing load, you are simply sharing the existing load (i.e., no additional current is being requested). Additionally, adding to the current system allows an installer to accurately assess the gauge of wire being used to determine if the circuit was designed for the load (i.e., the blown fuse will be easily located). Moreover, integrating with the current wiring allows an installer to know which critical vehicle systems are being interfaced with, which makes troubleshooting much easier as these are systems that were already designed with that particular trim level in mind (i.e., system load). Finally, you never want to increase the amperage of which a circuit was designed, which is why when interfacing with an existing circuit the load being drawn, as defined by the fused connection, is less than original design therefore never adding to the load and sharing current at a lesser amperage. When you add a circuit, you are adding amperage to a circuit that was not established and therefore run the risk of, at the very least blowing a fuse, or at the worst, if the fuse is faulty, damaging a critical component that will require a wire trace or something catching fire.

Hopefully, this is a good enough explanation from someone who did this for a living for a while.

FYI, fuses do not "have" to be rated for at least 5 amps.
Few problems with your explanation, I'll address them specifically.

However, there's power running to almost every connection point on the fusebox.

There isn't though, you can probe a few points in there and there's no current. That means power isn't being provided.

So yes, while there's live power running to it, that doesn't mean that the wire supplying that power, once again on the back of the box, is suitable for the load that you are introducing by adding fuses to it. Additionally, you do not know what vital system component (BCM, ECM, etc.) is also sharing current with that same circuit for which you are adding.

While I would agree with a power-hungry set up like a high-wattage speaker/amp, a dashcam or radar detector pulling less than 5-7W of power at full is nothing to worry about, regardless of what you're pulling power off of. If something is pulling 12 amps (off of a 20A fuse), that's 240W of power at full load, 5W is well within tolerances for the system to have zero problems.

Splicing into existing wires is a long proven method od accurately integrating components into a vehicle where the electrical load is well established (i.e., closed system).

While it may be established, I believe this is due to a fundamental lack of understanding of how electricity works from the mechanics industry which I'll go into in a second.

Furthermore, you are not adding to the existing load, you are simply sharing the existing load (i.e., no additional current is being requested).

This is fundamentally wrong on many levels. When you add additional devices into a circuit, you are increasing the load on that circuit totally, from the battery. It's important to understand that electricity is pulled, not pushed, which is caused by a difference in potential across a circuit from the positive to the negative side of the battery (which becomes your "voltage"). If you add additional devices into a circuit, you are increasing the voltage potential across the battery, which causes more current to run through the circuit.

For example: If your ignition pulls 10A of power over a 12V line, that's 120W of power at full load. If you splice in another device pulling 2A of power, that line's load from the battery will increase from 120W to 144W. You're not "taking" some of the 120W and giving it to another device, both devices are pulling what they need to, and they're pulling it over the original line that was expected to only pull 120W.

It's a bit confusing because you seem to understand this given your later quote:

Finally, you never want to increase the amperage of which a circuit was designed

Now, while I may not think this is overall dangerous in the grand scheme of things (the amount of current we're adding is negligible), I don't know of any mechanics that are trained and licensed electricians. Adding a very low wattage device to an open connection in the fuse box, coupled with a properly rated fuse (in this case, any USB device should almost certainly be paired with a 5A fuse) is almost objectively a better decision than cutting and splicing in additional wires, especially to something as power-hungry and important as the ignition connection.
 
Ok @Berzerker. I’m not arguing with you. You asked for a rationale and I gave it, but now you want to debate fundamentals of loads. And you’re referencing “probing”, which is antiquated and not used in automotive applications any longer due to sensitive electronics.

I’ll just say this, I have a Ph.D. and my thesis was in circuit theory and design. Like I said, my post wasn’t mean to serve as a comprehensive analysis. I believe my reputation in regard to electronics on these forums speaks for itself.

Do whatever makes you happy.
 
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Ok @Berzerker. I’m not arguing with you. You asked for a rationale and I gave it, but now you want to debate fundamentals of loads. And you’re referencing “probing”, which is antiquated and not used in automotive applications any longer due to sensitive electronics.

I’ll just say this, I have a Ph.D. and my thesis was in circuit theory and design. Like I said, my post wasn’t mean to serve as a comprehensive analysis. I believe my reputation in regard to electronics on these forums speaks for itself.

Do whatever makes you happy.
You're here trying to give out information to people and advise. I'm trying to help everyone else moreso than trying to argue with you. People who have no idea what they're doing are going to be cutting and splicing wires in their $40,000+ cars.

My overall point was plugging things into empty fuses given the proper equipment for the devices we're installing will cause no damage and is preferable to cutting into the existing electrical system. This requires 0 modification to the existing system and allows for easy troubleshooting.

Bottom line: Take it to a certified installer of whatever you want to install if you want to do something like this.
 
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My overall point was plugging things into empty fuses given the proper equipment for the devices we're installing will cause no damage and is preferable to cutting into the existing electrical system. This requires 0 modification to the existing system and allows for easy troubleshooting.

Bottom line: Take it to a certified installer of whatever you want to install if you want to do something like this.

I’ve been completing mobile electronic installs for 16 years. Worked for some of the biggest mobile electronics companies in the country and spent time designing circuits for two of the largest automakers in the work.

Vehicle electronics continue to be a hobby of mine even though it’s not my “day” job any longer. I remain certified at the highest level for mobile vehicle electronics.

And what you continue to say is simply wrong. What you are suggesting is not the preferred or recommended method for installing components in a vehicle. Adding fuses to an existing system that were not present IS MODIFYING the existing electrical system. Stop spouting things that you’re not intimately familiar with and neglecting to point out the downsides in doing so. It’s posts like those that confuse people and lead people who haven’t a clue what they’re doing into making costly mistakes.

Any certified installer worth the paper their MECP certificate is printed on will not add a fuse to an empty space and work from there. This is the most unadvisable thing to do in mobile electronics. It’s not simply that you shouldn’t do this but there are an abundance of precautions that should be taken, which is why it’s unadvisable in most scenarios. They all have been taught and trained, if they follow MECP guidelines, to integrate with existing fused sources with an additional fuse at a lower amperage than the original fuses source to ensure any voltage spikes break the fuse for the installed component and not the fuse of a critical vehicle component. Furthermore, installers are not cutting anything. They are splicing into existing sources. And if they’re good at their jobs the finished product looks the way it would look had it came from the factory and ensures that if customers go to the dealership for work that there are now extraneous fuses sources for technicians to content with.

There are some instances where adding fuses to an existing electrical system are advantageous, such as adding an additional battery for SPL competitions or when taking advantage of a high output alternator, but not when it’s for something as basic as a dash cam or radar detector.

MECP Certified Master Technician (1 of less than 100 in the United States)
 
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I’ve been completing mobile electronic installs for 16 years. Worked for some of the biggest mobile electronics companies in the country and spent time designing circuits for two of the largest automakers in the work.

Vehicle electronics continue to be a hobby of mine even though it’s not my “day” job any longer. I remain certified at the highest level for mobile vehicle electronics.

And what you continue to say is simply wrong. What you are suggesting is not the preferred or recommended method for installing components in a vehicle. Adding fuses to an existing system that were not present IS MODIFYING the existing electrical system. Stop spouting things that you’re not intimately familiar with and neglecting to point out the downsides in doing so. It’s posts like those that confuse people and lead people who haven’t a clue what they’re doing into making costly mistakes.

Any certified installer worth the paper their MECP certificate is printed on will not add a fuse to an empty space and work from there. This is the most unadvisable thing to do in mobile electronics. It’s not simply that you shouldn’t do this but there are an abundance of precautions that should be taken, which is why it’s unadvisable in most scenarios. They all have been taught and trained, if they follow MECP guidelines, to integrate with existing fused sources with an additional fuse at a lower amperage than the original fuses source to ensure any voltage spikes break the fuse for the installed component and not the fuse of a critical vehicle component. Furthermore, installers are not cutting anything. They are splicing into existing sources. And if they’re good at their jobs the finished product looks the way it would look had it came from the factory and ensures that if customers go to the dealership for work that there are now extraneous fuses sources for technicians to content with.

There are some instances where adding fuses to an existing electrical system are advantageous, such as adding an additional battery for SPL competitions or when taking advantage of a high output alternator, but not when it’s for something as basic as a dash cam or radar detector.

MECP Certified Master Technician (1 of less than 100 in the United States)
Ok. You're still pushing these wrong ideas about how electricity works. I think you should take your own advice about "not talking about things you don't know." I don't care what a piece of paper with a silly acronym says on it.

I'll choose to believe my knowledge on how this works plus the many resources and installers I've talked to saying that doing it this way would cause no issues with such a low-current drawing device.

The bottom line is to still take it to a certified installer.

P.S.:

Adding fuses to an existing system that were not present IS MODIFYING the existing electrical system.

This is the most telling thing about what you don't understand. Please think about how your methods of "splicing" is NOT modifying the existing electrical system? Where does the power to go to that spliced device come from? The magic in the air?
 
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Ok. You're still pushing these wrong ideas about how electricity works. I think you should take your own advice about "not talking about things you don't know." I don't care what a piece of paper with a silly acronym says on it.

I'll choose to believe my knowledge on how this works plus the many resources and installers I've talked to saying that doing it this way would cause no issues with such a low-current drawing device.

The bottom line is to still take it to a certified installer.

P.S.:



This is the most telling thing about what you don't understand. Please think about how your methods of "splicing" is NOT modifying the existing electrical system? Where does the power to go to that spliced device come from? The magic in the air?

Silly piece of paper? The same silly piece of paper the folks have that you're telling people to have complete their installs

You talked to installers? What a joke. Thanks for confirming what I already figured, which is you don't have a clue because you haven't spent any significant time completing and troubleshooting the work.

Man, you're lacking the basic knowledge of 12v electronics and contingencies, but it's ok. When you have the facts, you pound the facts, when you have nothing, you pound the table. Continue pounding the table, or the keyboard, buddy. Good luck to you and hopefully no one ever listens to a word you say about electronics until you take the subject seriously and learn how things actually work.
 
Silly piece of paper? The same silly piece of paper the folks have that you're telling people to have complete their installs.

Man, you're lacking the basic knowledge of 12v electronics. Good luck to you and hopefully no one ever listens to a word you say about electronics until you take some time to learn how things actually work.
Incredibly ironic statement. There's nothing different about "12V" electronics than any other voltage level electronics. Proof that you don't know what you're talking about.

This entire thread needs to be purged and you need to stop giving advice.
 
Incredibly ironic statement. There's nothing different about "12V" electronics than any other voltage level electronics. Proof that you don't know what you're talking about.

This entire thread needs to be purged and you need to stop giving advice.
What? Please stop replying.

There are quite a few differences between AC (110-220v, found in homes) and DC (12v or 24v, found in cars). This lets me know you still don't have a clue.

You don't take your car to an electrician...enough said. There are significant differences.
 
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What? Please stop replying.

There are quite a few differences between AC (110-220v, found in homes) and DC (12v or 24v, found in cars). This lets me know you still don't have a clue.

You don't take your car to an electrician...enough said. There are significant differences.
”What?” Exactly, you seem really confused. So your point was AC and DC? You realize you can have 12V AC and DC, right? Someone mentioning 12V doesn’t automatically mean DC power.

Further proof you need to stop. You really have no idea what you’re talking about.
 
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”What?” Exactly, you seem really confused. So your point was AC and DC? You realize you can have 12V AC and DC, right? Someone mentioning 12V doesn’t automatically mean DC power.

Further proof you need to stop. You really have no idea what you’re talking about.

I'm done here, we're talking about cars and you say that 12v doesn't mean DC power when that's all we've been talking about here. lol...pound the table buddy.
 
You know you've lost it when all you have left is the "disagree" button for the person you've been trying to debate LMFAO!!!

Petulant child

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Any certified installer worth the paper their MECP certificate is printed on will not add a fuse to an empty space and work from there.
Serious question. Why is there an empty slot, with incoming power that will become usable with a fuse, if you aren't supposed to use it?
 
You know you've lost it when all you have left is the "disagree" button for the person you've been trying to debate LMFAO!!!

Petulant child

Z9Ph011.png
Just trying to point out the blatantly incorrect bullcrap you’re typing so that everyone knows to not follow it.
 
Serious question. Why is there an empty slot, with incoming power that will become usable with a fuse, if you aren't supposed to use it?
It’s a prewired fuse that can be used from the manufacturer for a part or function that doesn’t exist in the model or trim you bought.

That’s just it though, you can definitely use it. People that say you can’t obviously have no idea what they’re talking about.
 
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Serious question. Why is there an empty slot, with incoming power that will become usable with a fuse, if you aren't supposed to use it?

It's not that you can't use it, but you need to know a lot more about that connection before you use it. The reverse question is, how does the power get to that particular fuse location, to begin with?

For example, let's assume that it's a very thin gauge wire that's connected on the back of that connection. It's not something that you would see because you're metering on the front, where the fuse is located, as opposed to the back where the connection is established. So you may not see the gauge of wire that's supplying that current. Additionally, wouldn't you also want to know what other components that connection may also be supply before you decide to, a) add a 5A/10A/20A fuse onto it, or b)potentially draw a higher load than the supplying wire can reliably deliver or c) damage a critical component?

Take the scenario above, let's assume you attached a 10A in-line fuse to your components and one day you notice your component isn't working. It may take some time before you notice especially if the component you were powering had an internal battery. So you go to troubleshoot and the fuse you used (10A) isn't blown, so the 10A is still in-tact.

Where do you check next? Because all the fuses that will show in your manual still functional. How do you accurately determine what has blown downstream? When you take it to a dealer, how will they troubleshoot it? Keep in mind that vehicle manufacturers recycle parts across several makes, models, and trims.

What may provide a source of power may not necessarily be intended to be used for that particular application.

So it's not necessarily about what you can't do, but more so about what you need to keep in mind before doing it. In this application, there's no fuse for the entire fusebox so everything is linked to a particular component. If there was a catch-all fuse, I wouldn't be making as big a stink about this.
 
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Just trying to point out the blatantly incorrect bullcrap you’re typing so that everyone knows to not follow it.

Dude, you know reasonable people can disagree, and that's ok. I typically extend an olive branch of some type when people disagree with me. I'm just telling you what installers would do. It's not like when you get an install done; they pop new fuses in all your empty fuse slots. I hope you're not going to the extreme about this. If you disagree, that's cool, and no one is telling you that you must do it my way and I don't think you're claiming that it must be done your way. But as an installer, since you mentioned it, that's the approach we take, but there are outliers, maybe those you talk to, that do things differently.
 
Dude, you know reasonable people can disagree, and that's ok. I typically extend an olive branch of some type when people disagree with me. I'm just telling you what installers would do. It's not like when you get an install done; they pop new fuses in all your empty fuse slots. I hope you're not going to the extreme about this. If you disagree, that's cool, and no one is telling you that you must do it my way and I don't think you're claiming that it must be done your way. But as an installer, since you mentioned it, that's the approach we take, but there are outliers, maybe those you talk to, that do things differently.
I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing admirably, but I always stick to the proper method of providing a thorough explanation and evidence where necessary. I wasn't the one who started with the condescending tone of "I'm not going to begin to explain why no one would do this," and tried to flash the "Ph.D," "thesis in circuit design," and your "certification." I provided you a valid reasoning of why the other method was perfectly acceptable, and all you could come back with was your certification and "it's always done this way." The conversation devolves when people exhibit that kind of behavior, and it seemed like any evidence I presented was just being ignored. There's only so much I can do to prove a point, and everything you've seen is what I've been trying to do.
 
I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing admirably, but I always stick to the proper method of providing a thorough explanation and evidence where necessary. I wasn't the one who started with the condescending tone of "I'm not going to begin to explain why no one would do this," and tried to flash the "Ph.D," "thesis in circuit design," and your "certification." I provided you a valid reasoning of why the other method was perfectly acceptable, and all you could come back with was your certification and "it's always done this way." The conversation devolves when people exhibit that kind of behavior, and it seemed like any evidence I presented was just being ignored. There's only so much I can do to prove a point, and everything you've seen is what I've been trying to do.

I provided you a valid method for doing things because you asked and immediately began to tear down what I said even though I said it wasn't mean to be a comprehensive analysis. You can't ignore your responses and then you continued to go down a rabbit hole. You asked how "certified installers" do it and I told you. You then replied with something else. We have fundamentally different ways of doing things and that's fine, but to try to categorize what I said as "wrong" is just invalid. My credentials are what gives me the ability to speak with confidence about these types of systems. I understand if that's not what you wanted to hear at the time but it doesn't take away from the fact. This isn't the place to try to give a clinic on vehicle electronics and at the core, I believe that is something that we both can agree to.
 
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