ATQ Subframe Collars

[K8 Stinger Store]

I get that these have an improvement but we are seeing first to market HUGE inflation here. Most of these for other platforms are around $100

Actually, I would have to disagree. For one, you are comparing a kit that comes with (8) collars, not (10) and no bolts are included either.

If you look at the Stiff Ring Chassis Collars for the Kia Optima that we sell, they are sold for $199.95 and come with no bolts.

Kia Optima/Hyundai Sonata Stiff Ring Chassis Collars - K5 Optima Store

LEts be honest these are collars and bolts for $215.00 (promo price) When someone gets there hands on them let the community know what they are rated for you can take them to a local hardware shop and they can let us know what to get for around $50.00

Not sure if you noticed this, but out of the (10) collars in the kit, there are several different sizes for the specific tolerances on each section of the Stinger, it isn't just one size fits all, and it would be quite challenging for anyone to just go to a local hardware store to find these very specific sized pieces.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Actually, I would have to disagree. For one, you are comparing a kit that comes with (8) collars, not (10) and no bolts are included either.

If you look at the Stiff Ring Chassis Collars for the Kia Optima that we sell, they are sold for $199.95 and come with no bolts.

Kia Optima/Hyundai Sonata Stiff Ring Chassis Collars - K5 Optima Store


Not sure if you noticed this, but out of the (10) collars in the kit, there are several different sizes for the specific tolerances on each section of the Stinger, it isn't just one size fits all, and it would be quite challenging for anyone to just go to a local hardware store to find these very specific sized pieces.

Are you talking about the same ones Shark racing sold for 27.00 that came with no bolts. That seems reasonably priced for collars. Im just saying it wont be long before someone gets these over to Fastenal (one of the global leader for hardware) and gets a kit made up for 25% of these.

Also that pic was just a general heres a 10 bolt 10 collar kit for $100 which is right on par with what we would see if this wasnt the first to market inflation


If I knew the collar sizes I could easily help the community out. Im sure we can get a kit together.

Structural Bolts | Fastenal

Structural bolts are never anything special.

 

[Tomi_ATQ]

This kind of thought process is what kills the innovation or product creation in the auto community. Why would any of us manufacturers spend our time, money and resources to develop products for a market, so that you can * make it cheaper *

Here is the process for making these Collars.

Find a Stinger
Pull Stinger into shop ( Rent, Hydro, Heat, Tools, Lift ) <<-- This all costs money
Now spend the time to disassemble the vehicle and take measurements, make drawings. << Time
Then pick up the required material. <<-- This costs money
Program the CNC Machine <<-- This costs more then your rent payments
Make the products <<-- This takes time
Test fit the product until satisfied <<-- More Time
Found a flaw with the OEM bolts and to ensure correct functionality. Source the required hardware. <<-- Time & Money
Purchase said hardware ( BTW Good luck finding the correct bolt on your own ) Fastenal doesn't have them. I would know, I work with them directly for hardware on a daily basis.

Now after all of this is done.

A DIY has to be made so that customers know how to install the products <<-- Some more time
Packaging has to be arranged <<-- Time and Money
Products cleaned, packaged, and shipped. <<-- Time, Money, Fuel

This all costs money as a business vs you buying a set or complaining about the cost and claiming you can make them for next to nothing. Its much easier being able to knock off someones work then doing it on your own.

There's overhead to keep, bills to pay, just like anyone else. Products are priced to reflect costs associated with developing and producing a product for the respective communities. No one goes into business to give things away, work for free, or give you hand outs because you can't afford the parts.

That's how I see comments such as this, regardless of what industry it is.

You can either support your vendors, or create your own products at Home depot, Fastenal, Walmart whatever your fancy.

Or you could start your own parts manufacturing company and follow what you preach and see how far you go.

 

[K8 Stinger Store]

Are you talking about the same ones Shark racing sold for 27.00 that came with no bolts. That seems reasonably priced for collars. Im just saying it wont be long before someone gets these over to Fastenal (one of the global leader for hardware) and gets a kit made up for 25% of these.

Also that pic was just a general heres a 10 bolt 10 collar kit for $100 which is right on par with what we would see if this wasnt the first to market inflation
View attachment 20522

If I knew the collar sizes I could easily help the community out. Im sure we can get a kit together.

Structural Bolts | Fastenal

Structural bolts are never anything special.

Nope, I was basing it off the photo you posted when comparing the pricing of the kits.

Now I will refer to the new pic you posted. Look at the size of the collars in this kit, they are less than half of the size/material as the ones for the Stinger. Could be wrong, but from the photo posted, they also all look to be the same size collars, which means 1 size fits all.

I totally get what you are saying about the pricing, but this is a company who custom manufactured a product specifically for the Stinger community and it just got released. This isn't any different than any other brand new product to hit the market. The higher costs go into recovering the costs of manufacturing and designing the product.

The majority of our customers are looking for a quality product at a fair price, and this is it. Most Stinger owners are not going to try and make this kit on there own with parts from a local hardware store. Like the old saying always goes, good isn't cheap, and cheap isn't good.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

This kind of thought process is what kills the innovation or product creation in the auto community. Why would any of us manufacturers spend our time, money and resources to develop products for a market, so that you can * make it cheaper *

Here is the process for making these Collars.

Find a Stinger
Pull Stinger into shop ( Rent, Hydro, Heat, Tools, Lift ) <<-- This all costs money
Now spend the time to disassemble the vehicle and take measurements, make drawings. << Time
Then pick up the required material. <<-- This costs money
Program the CNC Machine <<-- This costs more then your rent payments
Make the products <<-- This takes time
Test fit the product until satisfied <<-- More Time
Found a flaw with the OEM bolts and to ensure correct functionality. Source the required hardware. <<-- Time & Money
Purchase said hardware ( BTW Good luck finding the correct bolt on your own ) Fastenal doesn't have them. I would know, I work with them directly for hardware on a daily basis.

Now after all of this is done.

A DIY has to be made so that customers know how to install the products <<-- Some more time
Packaging has to be arranged <<-- Time and Money
Products cleaned, packaged, and shipped. <<-- Time, Money, Fuel

This all costs money as a business vs you buying a set or complaining about the cost and claiming you can make them for next to nothing. Its much easier being able to knock off someones work then doing it on your own.

There's overhead to keep, bills to pay, just like anyone else. Products are priced to reflect costs associated with developing and producing a product for the respective communities. No one goes into business to give things away, work for free, or give you hand outs because you can't afford the parts.

That's how I see comments such as this, regardless of what industry it is.

You can either support your vendors, or create your own products at Home depot, Fastenal, Walmart whatever your fancy.

Or you could start your own parts manufacturing company and follow what you preach and see how far you go.

Whoaaaaa. Hit a soft spot on pricing with my posts huh... You can charge whatever you want, but when its been proven in MULTIPLE platforms that the cost of these style kits are around 100 its only a matter a time before someone knocks you off and sells them. I have ZERO intention to sell anything, but to provide the community with a kit that can be reasonable sourced. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.... but im not the one that needs to justify your 300% mark up.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Nope, I was basing it off the photo you posted when comparing the pricing of the kits.

Now I will refer to the new pic you posted. Look at the size of the collars in this kit, they are less than half of the size/material as the ones for the Stinger. Could be wrong, but from the photo posted, they also all look to be the same size collars, which means 1 size fits all.

I totally get what you are saying about the pricing, but this is a company who custom manufactured a product specifically for the Stinger community and it just got released. This isn't any different than any other brand new product to hit the market. The higher costs go into recovering the costs of manufacturing and designing the product.

The majority of our customers are looking for a quality product at a fair price, and this is it. Most Stinger owners are not going to try and make this kit on there own with parts from a local hardware store. Like the old saying always goes, good isn't cheap, and cheap isn't good.

I agree with most of this. They are first to market so they want to get as much money out of it before it gets duplicated and sold elsewhere ( considering you cant copyright hardware).

Higher price doesnt always mean higher quality. ITs collars and bolts, both have been used for alot longer than any one on this forum has been alive.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Also, i am not saying ATQ isnt providing a quality product because it looks quality.

 

[Tomi_ATQ]

Whoaaaaa. Hit a soft spot on pricing with my posts huh... You can charge whatever you want, but when its been proven in MULTIPLE platforms that the cost of these style kits are around 100 its only a matter a time before someone knocks you off and sells them. I have ZERO intention to sell anything, but to provide the community with a kit that can be reasonable sourced. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.... but im not the one that needs to justify your 300% mark up.

Not at all!

Merely just explaining to you how things work, since you don't seem to understand.
If I could get away with 300% mark ups, I'd be a happy man! haha.

The bolts add 140$ to the cost of the kits. So what you're telling us, is these are actually being sold far to cheap. Since the industry standard on the collars is $100

 

[K8 Stinger Store]

Higher price doesnt always mean higher quality. ITs collars and bolts, both have been used for alot longer than any one on this forum has been alive.

I agree that higher price does not always mean higher quality, but....

I have this kit sitting in front of me, and can tell you that it is EXTREMELY HIGH QUALITY! The alumnium collars are spot on in terms of fitment, and the bolts are grade 10 and also very good quality.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Not at all!

Merely just explaining to you how things work, since you don't seem to understand.
If I could get away with 300% mark ups, I'd be a happy man! haha.

The bolts add 140$ to the cost of the kits. So what you're telling us, is these are actually being sold far to cheap. Since the industry standard on the collars is $100

Not to tell you anyway how to run your business but if you are paying $35 for each bolt DM me with the drawing and I will line up multiple quotes from Machine shops in CA for bulk orders of these. I wouldnt pay no more thatn $3-5 a bolt at 100+ qty.

Ill even sign a NDA and NC agreement with you.

 

[ScottM]

Whoaaaaa. Hit a soft spot on pricing with my posts huh... You can charge whatever you want, but when its been proven in MULTIPLE platforms that the cost of these style kits are around 100 its only a matter a time before someone knocks you off and sells them. I have ZERO intention to sell anything, but to provide the community with a kit that can be reasonable sourced. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.... but im not the one that needs to justify your 300% mark up.

I'm not sure I understand your captain obvious comments? I mean we all know that as competition comes to market, the price goes down (in this type of situation). If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. But to keep saying stuff like "...only a matter of time...", I mean yes that is the case with anything of this type. That's pretty much economics 101 stuff.

 

[ScottM]

...and when someone says "I got a guy..."

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

I'm not sure I understand your captain obvious comments? I mean we all know that as competition comes to market, the price goes down (in this type of situation). If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. But to keep saying stuff like "...only a matter of time...", I mean yes that is the case with anything of this type. That's pretty much economics 101 stuff.

Not in the sense of pricing out the competition. First to markets dont always have to be High priced. Look at BMS's policy. They were one of the first for tuning did they charge $1500 for a JB4 because they knew they could? Heck no they are still cheaper than most and still out selling everyone when it comes to piggybacks.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

...and when someone says "I got a guy..."

Just a little background on me This is what I am currently working on....



White out some information, but we source and find manufactures to make products all over the world man. I do know many guys

 

[Tomi_ATQ]

Not to tell you anyway how to run your business but if you are paying $35 for each bolt DM me with the drawing and I will line up multiple quotes from Machine shops in CA for bulk orders of these. I wouldnt pay no more thatn $3-5 a bolt at 100+ qty.

You are aware that we could machine our own bolts right? haha

No one will make you this sized bolt at 3-5$ and then harden them to grade 10 to meet OEM specs then Galvanize them. Fastenals minimum order is 5000 Pieces to get them at 13$ a bolt for this size custom ordered.

Everything you're saying, I looked into already lol

Our products are designed and developed to be the best and we ensure OEM fitment, as such use OEM parts. It does increase the cost a bit, but it ensures that our customers receive a quality product that they can count on. You're basing your pricing estimates on M10 Bolts that are maybe an inch long.

But we shouldn't be arguing here. I just wanted to clarify whats what, and kind of debunk some of the assumptions made.

 

[Tomi_ATQ]

Just a little background on me This is what I am currently working on....

View attachment 20523

White out some information, but we source and find manufactures to make products all over the world man. I do know many guys

Urethane bushings?

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

You are aware that we could machine our own bolts right? haha

No one will make you this sized bolt at 3-5$ and then harden them to grade 10 to meet OEM specs then Galvanize them. Fastenals minimum order is 5000 Pieces to get them at 13$ a bolt for this size custom ordered.

Everything you're saying, I looked into already lol

Our products are designed and developed to be the best and we ensure OEM fitment, as such use OEM parts. It does increase the cost a bit, but it ensures that our customers receive a quality product that they can count on. You're basing your pricing estimates on M10 Bolts that are maybe an inch long.

But we shouldn't be arguing here. I just wanted to clarify whats what, and kind of debunk some of the assumptions made.

Basing it on a similar bolt we make that are 10" Long

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Urethane bushings?

Just a general product that I am sourcing and getting manufactured. Just in reference to his "when someone says they know a guy"

 

[Tomi_ATQ]

Basing it on a similar bolt we make that are 10" Long

You should get into the car parts and development business. You'd make a fortune.

 

[Tomi_ATQ]

Just a general product that I am sourcing and getting manufactured. Just in reference to his "when someone says they know a guy"

We only deal with Canadian/American Companies and support our local economies.

We don't outsource anything outside of North America.

But I kind of want you guys to make me a bunch of stuff, so I can tell you its too expensive and ask for it to be cheaper or I'll source it to my guy lol Or telling your boss you make too much money and I could do the job cheaper. kinda get where I'm going with this? lol