Why hasn't anyone made an upgraded Torque Converter yet??

[KiaStingerNewb]

The car has been out 3 years basically. JB4 and Tork have basically done what they can (LAP3 in Korea too). Given the great platform we have, I'm really bummed the aftermarket support is so bad. To get upgraded turbos, you basically have to do custom kits like Lap 3 did. Beyond bolt ons+tune+suspension nothing seems to really be offered. I do understand with the Stinger not selling particularly well, vendors are less incentivized to build a bunch of things. I would think someone would have an upgraded TC by now though, given that we know it's a weak link? I'd imagine if we could fix the weak torque converter issue... we could then reliably tune to launch with boost. Then instead of mid 11's being the limits safely, we may be looking at breaking into the mid 10's eventually.

I just feel like this car could be Korea's 2JZ where you have a bunch of guys reliably running 600+ hp. The current limitations on performance all seem to be this part that makes these cars launch like limp noodles. Most manufacturers that have cars trapping 117-125+ would be running .5 faster in the quarter than the Stinger. For example there are basically no Scats reliably trapping around 120, yet they have a ton of scats running VERY low 11's with 115 ish trap speeds. We have atrocious 60 ft times+ET for the power level. For whatever reason AWD doesn't even improve the ET like it would with any other car on the Stinger it seems. If it does, it's very marginal.

An OEM Torque Converter runs somewhere between $900-1200. I'd definitely pay more than that for a stronger aftermarket one. Is there a vendor that would be willing to do this if we built a petition with enough orders in advance? Like say 50-100 pre orders at least? I'd assume on all of the forums we could get enough people.

 

[KiaStingerNewb]

Wow. Brutal. With AWD the labor book hours are 14 hours. Same as replacing the entire trans. For RWD it's closer to 7-8. That's from a transmission shop. Kia dealership said to replace that isn't worth the time, they would just replace the entire transmission.

 

[Ac91]

I too am very disappointed with the aftermarket/tuning support of the stinger I seriously thought it would take off but every single company talks up a product and jumps ship it was the same thing with the genesis 2.0 I don’t understand why Kia/Hyundai makes these cars so hard to tune if something breaks the warranty is voided and no dealer would warrant a ecu tuned car were essentially stuck with 1 or 2 people who tune our cars and it’s a shame because the stinger is a very capable car and could hurt some feelings with a good tune and before people say the car doesn’t sell well and companies are afraid the Supra sold close to 10,000 units less last year than the stinger and they are already upgraded turbos, full ecu tunes, e85, fuel pumps in the works etc

 

[Slip_Angle]

Only being 3 years old, Stingers are all still on warranty. Aftermarket companies likely think that the vast majority of owners aren't willing to void their warranty to install things like turbos, torque converters etc..

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

Unless you're buying a Camaro, Corvette, Charger, or Mustang, VERY few cars have serious out-of-the-gate aftermarket support. The Supra only a big performance aftermarket for two reasons: 1.) because it's a BMW and the B58 has been out for 5+ years now and 2.) it says "Supra" on it, not Kia.

Give it time. Tuners are still locking down all of the in's-and-out's of the ECU/TCU.

 

[oddball]

Errr.... Replacing a torque converter is literally identical labor to replacing a trans. It's also incredibly rare for a torque converter to fail. You can burn up the lockup clutch if the computer doesn't manage it correctly, but those days are stuck back in the 80's. It's much more likely that something goes wrong in the transmission, then the torque converter is changed at the same time. It's nearly impossible to fully flush a torque converter, so it's standard practice to replace them whenever something goes wrong in the trans.

Our stock converter stalls somewhere in the mid to high 2,000's which is perfectly decent. Dedicated drag setups will have 5,000 RPM stalls, but, well, that's dedicated for the strip. Replacing stock converters was common back when the stock stall speed was <1,500!

the only difference you'd get with a torque converter is a higher stall, which might permit lower 60 foot times. But we're probably at the limits of the stock suspension and possible wheel sizes. Someone would need to figure out how to get some 15" wheels on there for some proper slicks, and probably get 12" or wider rim. Seeing a back-halved Stinger would be pretty cool! Scott C's already at a 1.6 60' which is really quite good, so we're pretty much at the limits without doing major surgery.

I'd be completely shocked if even 10 torque converters would sell - world wide. There are companies that make fully custom billet converters - they'd happily make one for our car, and it would probably be in the $3k range.

$1k buys you a top-of-the-line converter in the normal aftermarket!

 

[KiaStingerNewb]

Errr.... Replacing a torque converter is literally identical labor to replacing a trans. It's also incredibly rare for a torque converter to fail. You can burn up the lockup clutch if the computer doesn't manage it correctly, but those days are stuck back in the 80's. It's much more likely that something goes wrong in the transmission, then the torque converter is changed at the same time. It's nearly impossible to fully flush a torque converter, so it's standard practice to replace them whenever something goes wrong in the trans.

Our stock converter stalls somewhere in the mid to high 2,000's which is perfectly decent. Dedicated drag setups will have 5,000 RPM stalls, but, well, that's dedicated for the strip. Replacing stock converters was common back when the stock stall speed was <1,500!

the only difference you'd get with a torque converter is a higher stall, which might permit lower 60 foot times. But we're probably at the limits of the stock suspension and possible wheel sizes. Someone would need to figure out how to get some 15" wheels on there for some proper slicks, and probably get 12" or wider rim. Seeing a back-halved Stinger would be pretty cool! Scott C's already at a 1.6 60' which is really quite good, so we're pretty much at the limits without doing major surgery.

I'd be completely shocked if even 10 torque converters would sell - world wide. There are companies that make fully custom billet converters - they'd happily make one for our car, and it would probably be in the $3k range.

$1k buys you a top-of-the-line converter in the normal aftermarket!

Well, then the brake snip mod should be fine if they rarely fail?

 

[oddball]

Well, then the brake snip mod should be fine if they rarely fail?

Sure. The problem isn't the torque converter. The problem is brake standing dumps a TON of heat into the trans fluid. Literally all of the engine's output power is being turned into heat in the ATF. That'll cook the fluid pretty quick, at which point it doesn't work as it's supposed to (ATF has to be both extremely slippery as a lubricant AND extremely sticky to make clutches hold - it's tough).
A catastrophic failure during a brake stand is more likely to be one of the spline engagements in the trans twisting or breaking. Or a cage or spring breaking in a sprag clutch.
Or one of the clutch packs can't quite hold it, spins while applied, and cooks the frictions.


A higher stall torque converter provides less fluid coupling, which means it also makes less heat and puts less stress on the trans input shaft (at the same engine RPM as a stock converter). BUT you're also losing power in that looser coupling.

 

[KiaStingerNewb]

Sure. The problem isn't the torque converter. The problem is brake standing dumps a TON of heat into the trans fluid. Literally all of the engine's output power is being turned into heat in the ATF. That'll cook the fluid pretty quick, at which point it doesn't work as it's supposed to (ATF has to be both extremely slippery as a lubricant AND extremely sticky to make clutches hold - it's tough).
A catastrophic failure during a brake stand is more likely to be one of the spline engagements in the trans twisting or breaking. Or a cage or spring breaking in a sprag clutch.
Or one of the clutch packs can't quite hold it, spins while applied, and cooks the frictions.


A higher stall torque converter provides less fluid coupling, which means it also makes less heat and puts less stress on the trans input shaft (at the same engine RPM as a stock converter). BUT you're also losing power in that looser coupling.

Then I must of been reading bad info. Every limitation with the trans seemed to be centered around the converter. I don't even mean necessarily higher stall. I thought it was the literal strength of the part under boost for launching? So how do you safely (at least mostly) get boost during launch out of these cars. Btw I'm AWD, not sure if that makes a difference in launches.

 

[oddball]

Where are you seeing that info??

Brake snip will let you stall higher than the normal launch control. Higher stall means you're on the throttle more, which means the engine is spitting out more exhaust, which means the turbos are spinning faster. Next step is to sign up for the EWG control testing with Burger.

The factory has the limits on launch control in order to control heat. And to try to keep you from running into a wall.

No one will really know until someone starts breaking parts. Given what we know, it's pretty clear the driveline is ready for anything that can easily be thrown at it. All bets are off once you start making major mods.

AWD has the transfer case which is *always* a weak spot. You're more likely to bust that than anything else first. I'd recommend pulling the fuse if you plan on getting really serious. But, at the same time, several guys are doing regular runs at the strip with AWD engaged.

There's a ton of areas where transmissions can fail. The engineers have to make tradeoffs in the design, so we'll just have to see what gives away first. There's a whole bunch of very small spline engagements - any one that doesn't have proper heat treatment or is just a shade too small will break. Sprag clutches (including the one in the TC) break. Sometimes clutch packs need more frictions and steels than they designed for. Sometimes pistons need more apply pressure. Auto trans have a bunch of stuff going on.

But, if I was a betting man, I'd expect failures in this order:
1) AWD transfer case
(the rest need major traction modifications and/or major engine output improvements before they'd happen)
2) stub axles
3) driveshaft (ours is made for cruising - not for drag)
4) trans

Sooner or later someone will start bending rods or breaking pistons too.

 

[KiaStingerNewb]

Where are you seeing that info??

Brake snip will let you stall higher than the normal launch control. Higher stall means you're on the throttle more, which means the engine is spitting out more exhaust, which means the turbos are spinning faster. Next step is to sign up for the EWG control testing with Burger.

The factory has the limits on launch control in order to control heat. And to try to keep you from running into a wall.

No one will really know until someone starts breaking parts. Given what we know, it's pretty clear the driveline is ready for anything that can easily be thrown at it. All bets are off once you start making major mods.

AWD has the transfer case which is *always* a weak spot. You're more likely to bust that than anything else first. I'd recommend pulling the fuse if you plan on getting really serious. But, at the same time, several guys are doing regular runs at the strip with AWD engaged.

There's a ton of areas where transmissions can fail. The engineers have to make tradeoffs in the design, so we'll just have to see what gives away first. There's a whole bunch of very small spline engagements - any one that doesn't have proper heat treatment or is just a shade too small will break. Sprag clutches (including the one in the TC) break. Sometimes clutch packs need more frictions and steels than they designed for. Sometimes pistons need more apply pressure. Auto trans have a bunch of stuff going on.

But, if I was a betting man, I'd expect failures in this order:
1) AWD transfer case
(the rest need major traction modifications and/or major engine output improvements before they'd happen)
2) stub axles
3) driveshaft (ours is made for cruising - not for drag)
4) trans

Sooner or later someone will start bending rods or breaking pistons too.

Thanks for the detailed answers. Man, I really should of gotten RWD LOL. I got AWD in case I move back to the snow though. Yes, I realize AWD isn't the be all, end all with snow, but it helps some get traction. What I also like about AWD set up is at my current power level I don't need to even look at bigger or new tire set up because I have no issue with traction.

I'd think there is a big drop from your list to pistons and rods. I thought these internals are estimated to be able to handle 700+? None of us here are anywhere near the limits of the pistons estimated max right? I mean... with JB4 map 3 or 5+intake+muffler delete+E30 I'm probably lucky if I'm 450 wheel horse with AWD. I really am not worried about pistons.

I do think you're right that as AWD I really gotta be careful with transfer case. Nobody that I've seen has broken one, and the car is still so new. I wish we knew more about the limits of these cars. I get KIA with a 100k warranty doesn't WANT us to know these limits most likely.

My goal feels modest, but also so far away. Mid-high 11's with 118+ trap speed. I know that would put me in the top 5 list probably, but I feel like with this platform (despite weak aftermarket) it should be achievable. I'm a snorkel+brake snip away from having the same mods as multiple guys in the top 10 on our list. Thing is... I'm hesitant on brake snip. Has anyone of the top quarter guys here broken anything with brake snip? As you said, a handful of them are also AWD.

PS... I'll mostly be roll racing, so the axles+driveshaft+transfer shock shouldn't be as bad. I just want to know that if I occasionally want to launch from a dig, I won't blow everything up.

 

[oddball]

High 11's is the current benchmark and is reachable with just what you said. Either add Meth or get an ECU tune from Tork. Also need decent drag radials. Digging into the EWG will likely help too.

I assumed you were talking about the next level since you were talking about torque converter changes. Everything is pretty straight forward now. It'll be different when folks try to cram 30psi in there.

 

[KiaStingerNewb]

High 11's is the current benchmark and is reachable with just what you said. Either add Meth or get an ECU tune from Tork. Also need decent drag radials. Digging into the EWG will likely help too.

I assumed you were talking about the next level since you were talking about torque converter changes. Everything is pretty straight forward now. It'll be different when folks try to cram 30psi in there.

I'd prefer more mid 11s than high of course. Also why do I need radials with AWD? I have zero traction issues on the Pilot Sport 4S. I will add WMI probably, but currently I'm E30 mixed. You guys think the snorkel is worth it? I notice many guys have done.

 

[turboAWD]

As I said in another thread (asking about stroker kits): if you bought a Stinger expecting Camaro/Mustang/Charger/Corvette level of aftermarket parts / support, you bought the wrong car.

 

[G-197688]

The car has been out 3 years basically. JB4 and Tork have basically done what they can (LAP3 in Korea too). Given the great platform we have, I'm really bummed the aftermarket support is so bad. To get upgraded turbos, you basically have to do custom kits like Lap 3 did. Beyond bolt ons+tune+suspension nothing seems to really be offered. I do understand with the Stinger not selling particularly well, vendors are less incentivized to build a bunch of things. I would think someone would have an upgraded TC by now though, given that we know it's a weak link? I'd imagine if we could fix the weak torque converter issue... we could then reliably tune to launch with boost. Then instead of mid 11's being the limits safely, we may be looking at breaking into the mid 10's eventually.

I just feel like this car could be Korea's 2JZ where you have a bunch of guys reliably running 600+ hp. The current limitations on performance all seem to be this part that makes these cars launch like limp noodles. Most manufacturers that have cars trapping 117-125+ would be running .5 faster in the quarter than the Stinger. For example there are basically no Scats reliably trapping around 120, yet they have a ton of scats running VERY low 11's with 115 ish trap speeds. We have atrocious 60 ft times+ET for the power level. For whatever reason AWD doesn't even improve the ET like it would with any other car on the Stinger it seems. If it does, it's very marginal.

An OEM Torque Converter runs somewhere between $900-1200. I'd definitely pay more than that for a stronger aftermarket one. Is there a vendor that would be willing to do this if we built a petition with enough orders in advance? Like say 50-100 pre orders at least? I'd assume on all of the forums we could get enough people.

Yep id get one. Mine just started playing up after 3 years.