The Uncomfortable Truth: Was the Kia Stinger Actually Great, or Just Great For a Kia?

[Chris Erickson]

Let's talk about the elephant in the room. The Stinger is officially gone, and the mourning period is over. Now that the dust has settled, it's time to ask a question that might get me dragged in the replies.

Was the Stinger really a masterpiece of engineering, or were we all just completely shocked that a brand known for the Rio could build something that went fast and looked cool?

Let's start with the Shock Factor argument. Think back to when it launched. The automotive world collectively lost its mind. But why? If we're being brutally honest, a lot of the hype was heavily fueled by the badge.

If Mercedes, BMW, or Audi made the exact same car - with the exact same weight, the same interior plastics, and the same chassis dynamics - would critics have praised it as a revelation? Or would they have ripped it apart for being a little too heavy and having an interior that didn't quite match up to true luxury standards?

Let's face it. A massive chunk of the love was simply people saying, "Wow, I can't believe Kia built this". The car graded on a curve. When an established luxury brand builds a rear wheel drive sport sedan with a twin turbo V6, it's just another Tuesday. When Kia does it, it's headline news. Did the badge actually protect the car from harsher criticism?

How about the Undeniable Merits? But then you actually drive one. And here's where the haters and the badge snobs get quiet real fast.

You can't fake performance. That 3.3 liter V6 didn't just look good on paper - it pinned you back in your seat. And the design? They didn't just build a decent looking car. It was pretty damn impressive. Period.

It offered lots of cargo space thanks to the liftback design, it looked like a million bucks rolling down the highway, and it completely undercut the competition in price. You weren't just buying a budget version of a German car - you were buying a legitimate grand tourer that could eat up highway miles and handle twisty roads without breaking a sweat. It proved that a mainstream brand could punch way above its weight class.

So where do we stand? Some critics say it'll be forgotten in ten years as a weird experiment that didn't stick. They argue the interior rattles and the legendary Kia dealership experience held it back from true greatness.

I say they're missing the point entirely. But I want to hear from the people actually driving these cars every day.

Are we guilty of giving the Stinger a free pass just because of the logo on the hood? If BMW released this exact car as a 4 Series, would the automotive world have been as impressed? Or did Kia genuinely build a legend that stands toe to toe with the absolute best from Germany, badge be damned?

Am I wrong? WHY?

 

[Thomby]

When an established luxury brand builds a rear wheel drive sport sedan with a twin turbo V6, it's just another Tuesday

For recent years (say 2020+), all I can think of are Audi and Alfa. BMW/Mercedes if I6s count.

And whatever Cadillac's ATS-V descendant is after they downsized -V engines (CT4-V Blackwing?)

 

[Snicklefritz]

All I can say is that in the winter of '17-'18, as I read about it, right up till spring time I was saying, "it's a Kia", which means killed in action to me. Unimpressed I was, but drawn back to what KIA said about its new car in spite of that. When I actually did the deed and drove one, a GT2, that did it for me. Only then did I accept that everything KIA said about the Stinger was no exaggeration, only the truth.

While the Stinger was being produced, who else did a car like this? Nobody I ever heard of or saw. The creative brains behind the Stinger created a Korean BMW, you might as well say, a "German" car built in Asia. Funny, and kind of weird. Nobody expected it.

Will the Stinger remain as a niche enthusiast car with a life of its own because of that? We can't know that.

The badge has little if anything to do with whether that will happen or not. The car stands on its own merits. It is gorgeous, iconic even, as a GT high performance car. It is FUN to drive and to own and take care of. It's rewarding that way, at least to me.

 

[BIG-D]

I don't have time at the present moment to respond how i would like, suffice to say i wanted one back in 2017 and now after 3yr's of owning one i do not regret it one bit and this is our 7th Brand NEW KIA and we have never had any unexpected problems with any of them, unlike trolls on the internet claim when they jump on the bandwagon because someones mothers brother knew a person that blew a indicator bulb after just 300000miles...

 

[Snicklefritz]

I don't have time at the present moment to respond how i would like, suffice to say i wanted one back in 2017 and now after 3yr's of owning one i do not regret it one bit and this is our 7th Brand NEW KIA and we have never had any unexpected problems with any of them, unlike trolls on the internet claim when they jump on the bandwagon because someones mothers brother knew a person that blew a indicator bulb after just 300000miles...

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You had a white one before your black? Elucidate. Thank you.

 

[LordKOTL]

Let's talk about the elephant in the room. The Stinger is officially gone, and the mourning period is over. Now that the dust has settled, it's time to ask a question that might get me dragged in the replies.

Was the Stinger really a masterpiece of engineering, or were we all just completely shocked that a brand known for the Rio could build something that went fast and looked cool?

Let's start with the Shock Factor argument. Think back to when it launched. The automotive world collectively lost its mind. But why? If we're being brutally honest, a lot of the hype was heavily fueled by the badge.

If Mercedes, BMW, or Audi made the exact same car - with the exact same weight, the same interior plastics, and the same chassis dynamics - would critics have praised it as a revelation? Or would they have ripped it apart for being a little too heavy and having an interior that didn't quite match up to true luxury standards?

If BMW, Mercedes, or Audi would have made the Stinger, it would have been about $20k more than the Stinger just for their respective badges...with the same plastics and dynamics.

It works both ways. Kia did something great; they, as a budget brand, made a GT liftback, and priced it the same as their badge. It might not have been that groundbreaking overall in terms of what the EuroGT cars were doing, but the Stinger being 95% of BMW/Audi/Mercedes comparables at 70% of their price, is/was notable. Not just that Kia did it, but did it at the price they did.

Let's face it. A massive chunk of the love was simply people saying, "Wow, I can't believe Kia built this". The car graded on a curve. When an established luxury brand builds a rear wheel drive sport sedan with a twin turbo V6, it's just another Tuesday. When Kia does it, it's headline news. Did the badge actually protect the car from harsher criticism?

How about the Undeniable Merits? But then you actually drive one. And here's where the haters and the badge snobs get quiet real fast.

Aren't all cars graded on their respective curves though? Consider some things from an alternate point of view: If we are asking why does Kia get a "pass" on harsher criticism because they are a budget brand selling a GT liftback for the 1st time, then why does BMW/Audi/Mercedes get a pass for selling their GT liftbacks for tens of thousands more? If we want to argue fit and finish, then sure, they Euro GT makes do have some justification for being more expensive, but not that much more expensive.

In my opinion, BMW/Audi/Mercedes charge that much more because they can; badge snobbery if nothing else. That's fine. But I think it has to go both ways, If Kia shouldn't escape harsher criticism for fit/fishish vs. it's euro counterparts, then the aforementioned euro counterparts shouldn't be exempt from critics asking why their are paying so much more for just a badge.

You can't fake performance. That 3.3 liter V6 didn't just look good on paper - it pinned you back in your seat. And the design? They didn't just build a decent looking car. It was pretty damn impressive. Period.

It offered lots of cargo space thanks to the liftback design, it looked like a million bucks rolling down the highway, and it completely undercut the competition in price. You weren't just buying a budget version of a German car - you were buying a legitimate grand tourer that could eat up highway miles and handle twisty roads without breaking a sweat. It proved that a mainstream brand could punch way above its weight class.

Exactly. When I was in the market for my Stinger, it checked a lot of boxes and overall might not have been the "best" in any criteria, but it did a lot of stuff well ahead of the competition. Price-wise vs. the Euro GT's? I've already beaten that horse dead. VS a Charger R/T? Better interior, quicker from a dig, handles better, and the hatch. Might not have the V8 sound or have the overall horsepower, and fit and finish is compariable, if not better for the Stinger. I also think it was a step above the closest Accura/Lexus/Infinity offerings in it's class for both price and performance.

Could I deal with a sunroof rattle and a bad dealership experience for all that? Sure--especially since I tend to avoid dealershps.

So where do we stand? Some critics say it'll be forgotten in ten years as a weird experiment that didn't stick. They argue the interior rattles and the legendary Kia dealership experience held it back from true greatness.

I say they're missing the point entirely. But I want to hear from the people actually driving these cars every day.

Are we guilty of giving the Stinger a free pass just because of the logo on the hood? If BMW released this exact car as a 4 Series, would the automotive world have been as impressed? Or did Kia genuinely build a legend that stands toe to toe with the absolute best from Germany, badge be damned?

Am I wrong? WHY?

Honestly, I think if anything the Stinger might become a car like the Mitsubishi 3000GT (GTO)/Dodge Stealth.I think that it might end up being glossed over by some people but those who know, know it is/was a gem.

I did mention the rattles before that I think is negligible considering the price of the Stinger and what it is, especially with respect to how much a comparable, hypothetical BMW M4 would cost vs what the stinger cost (I would say 75k minimum for the same car with a BMW logo on it), but I do have to say that I take no one who judges any specific make/model/trim of car by the dealership experience seriously. I think it's disingenious for a few reasons.

For one, dealership experience can vary between dealerships. For two different quasi-indentical cars taken to different dealerships for maintenence (one competent and one not), the one taken to the incompetant dealership will seem worse, even though with competent service, it would have been just as good as the one taken to the competent dealership.

Another reason is not every driver of a given model of car uses dealerships for follow-on maintenence; some avoid dealerships unless they have no other choice. If they have good experiences maintaining their own cars, or having a trusted mechaninc maintain their car, do their voices get drowned out because of Dealer incompetence? Or, should an otherwise solid car's reputation suffer because a Karen or a Kevin is pissed that they aren't chauferred around town when they bring their vehicle in for a long-overdue oil change (hyperbole intended)?

Lastly, since the Stinger is no longer being made, the judgement hereon out will shift towards how robust/easy to fix/repair/maintain/build like all other cars which are no longer being made of any given platform. In 10 years, would anyone who would be buying a Stinger even care that back when the stinger was being produced that Kia didn't cater to the dealership experience? I didn't think so.

Overall I think the Stinger is a solid car that has a lot more going for it than against it, is overlooked by badge snobs, and even though isn't perfect, is groundbreaking for what it was: a GT liftback priced without paying for the badge. So, as a user here posted awhile back (I forgot who, but cred where credit is due to them), exactly what ChatGPT called it when it roasted it: A Kirkland version of an Audi A6.

I can't argue with that.

 

[jinthadell]

I don't have time at the present moment to respond how i would like, suffice to say i wanted one back in 2017 and now after 3yr's of owning one i do not regret it one bit and this is our 7th Brand NEW KIA and we have never had any unexpected problems with any of them, unlike trolls on the internet claim when they jump on the bandwagon because someones mothers brother knew a person that blew a indicator bulb after just 300000miles...

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I had the opposite experience. My black Stinger preceded my white one.

 

[BIG-D]

You had a white one before your black? Elucidate. Thank you.

No Bud that was a loaner from the dealership I had it to entice my wife but she said NO.

 

[Snicklefritz]

No Bud that was a loaner from the dealership I had it to entice my wife but she said NO.

So, you tried to become a two-Stinger family too. That's an interesting plate for a "loaner".

 

[ScottM]

A Kirkland version of an Audi A6.

This 100%. And for that reason, I purchased my 2018 that was totaled in 2023 and then purchased my 2023. Could not beat it top to bottom, dollar for dollar.

 

[Chris Erickson]

A Kirkland version of an Audi A6.

You guys nailed it with the Kirkland Audi comparison, and it's a great point about the value proposition. But let's dig into that. When people buy a Kirkland product, they're buying it because it's cheaper - not because it's the absolute pinnacle of luxury.

Does calling it a Kirkland Audi admit that it's a budget compromise? If you had the exact same money to spend, and the Stinger cost the exact same as an Audi A6, which key are you grabbing? Is it really the superior car, or just the better deal? I want to know if anyone here genuinely thinks it outclasses the Germans without the price discount acting as a crutch.

The car stands on its own merits. It is gorgeous, iconic even, as a GT high performance car.

I don't disagree that it's gorgeous. Parked under the lights, it holds its own against anything. But iconic is, I dunno, a heavy word to throw around.

The Mustang is iconic. The 911 is iconic. Do you really think the Stinger will be remembered in the same breath in twenty years? Or is it just a really good looking footnote in Kia's history? What specifically makes the design iconic rather than just a massive leap forward that hit at the right time? Let's talk about what actually makes a car legendary.

...this is our 7th Brand NEW KIA and we have never had any unexpected problems with any of them...

That's awesome that you've had such a rock solid experience with your 7th Kia. But you're clearly a loyalist!

For the average buyer who is used to Japanese or German reliability, does the Stinger hold up? A lot of people online love to claim that German cars fall apart after the warranty ends. Are we pretending the Stinger won't have expensive twin turbo V6 issues as it hits higher mileage? Or is the build quality actually good enough to outlast the competition in the long run?

I think it's a pretty cool car don't get me wrong. I'd been watching it the whole time it existed before it got canceled.

 

[Thomby]

If you had the exact same money to spend, and the Stinger cost the exact same as an Audi A6, which key are you grabbing?

I would not buy a base model Audi (A-anything). I've admired their RS cars, and some of the S cars, for a long time, but I don't even think I'd want a car as big as the A/S6 with "just" the V6 (maybe the prior one with the TT V8, which could be tuned to crazy levels).

I did a dimension comparison way back when and was surprised to find that the Stinger sat right between the BMW 3 & 5 series in size. I think the better comparison is the M340 or S4/5, ie upgraded engine in the "compact" (midsize now) sedan, without going full-on M or RS car.

And to me the major appeal of the BMW isn't badge snobbery, it's that they've made 10-20x as many 3/4-series as Stingers, so the upgrade path is known, and the I6 can hit 600+ with a tune & bolt-ons, vs. the Stinger's manifolds choking you past around 500ish. I'd love to see Kia's newer gen 3.5 make it into the G70 (or revived Stinger)...

 

[Snicklefritz]

I want to know if anyone here genuinely thinks it outclasses the Germans without the price discount acting as a crutch.

That's impossible to say really. Because the Stinger does have all that additional features stuff of a $20K more expensive BMW, et al. "badged" brand.

But I can say this easily enough. If Audi had made a "Stinger", in all but name only, out at the same time as KIA's surprise, for the same amount of money for the same features, hardly anyone would have bought the KIA. You don't have to be a badge snob to go with the better reputation for service. Although KIA is improving, that is their largest hurdle still to overcome.

But iconic is, I dunno, a heavy word to throw around.

I meant it in the sense that I anticipate the Stinger to outlast any negative association as a KIA. It already has with enthusiasts. And enthusiasts are the owners of the future surviving Stingers. It will be an icon of the great surprise car.

 

[JSolo]

If the stinger was to get totaled today, I have no idea what i'd replace it with. All the spyware and telemetry.... Don't care much for awd, but does have to be rwd, and 300hp+ and affordable.

 

[LordKOTL]

You guys nailed it with the Kirkland Audi comparison, and it's a great point about the value proposition. But let's dig into that. When people buy a Kirkland product, they're buying it because it's cheaper - not because it's the absolute pinnacle of luxury.

Does calling it a Kirkland Audi admit that it's a budget compromise? If you had the exact same money to spend, and the Stinger cost the exact same as an Audi A6, which key are you grabbing? Is it really the superior car, or just the better deal? I want to know if anyone here genuinely thinks it outclasses the Germans without the price discount acting as a crutch.


.....

If I'm buying a Kirkland product, luxury in any form is not entering into my decision process. I'm buying it because from a cost-to-performance ratio, it wins for that specific product. I'm paying for a product's performance, not the brand label attached.

I think we're coming at this from opposite sides. I do think that when you look at the euro cars that you can compare the Stinger to, the fit, finish, and luxury is better with the Euro cars--no question. Not 15-20K better, but better in the absolute--and that's fine by me. But, like I mentioned, luxury and fit and finish wasn't the end-all-beat-all for me. From my end, what gave me the most for my money? That's where I think the luxury comparison falls apart. You used the term "crutch" for the "price discount" for a Stinger. I don't agree with that take. A 2022 A6 premium (base model) was 56k. That's the one with a 261hp 4-banger. The Stinger was able to put a 3.3l V6 with over 100 more horsepower...for 55k MSRP. Doing a more apples-to-apples comparison, the 2022 GT-line Stinger with the 300hp 4-banger put out 300hp, for 38k MSRP (AWD version). Now, is there 18k of luxury or other improvements in that Premium A6 that would be worth it over a GT-line Stinger? What about the performance drop between a 56k A6 premium and a V6 Stinger for very close to the same price--is it worth it?

No, in my opinion--to both. I don't see the lesser price of the Stinger as a "discount" as it were, but as not paying for nothing but a badge. So, to answer your question, if a 2022 GT2 Stinger built as-it-was cost the same 70k as a top-of-the-line Audi A6, I don't think anyone would reach for the keys of the Stinger--maybe if they wanted that 10-year warranty, but that's a stretch. Why would I? It's not offering anything more and it's just as expensive. Even so, if I had the budget for 70k back then, I'd likely have gone for a CT4 Blackwing instead. .

But, Kia was able to cram as much into a 55k car as BMW, Audi, and Mercedes crams into their cars costing 15-20k more. Why pay 15-20k more if a Stinger does just about everything I wanted? Is paying less for a Stinger over a more expensive EuroGT really a discount? A budget compromise? Or, is it just wanting to pay for what's under the hood and not for the badge on the hood?

I am not everyone, of course. Some people want to pay for the prestige, the reputation, or an excuse to not use their turn signals (I kid!). Some are annoyed by creaks and want perfect fit, finish, and luxury. That's fine. I don't begrudge that at all, you (royal you) spend your cash on whatever you want.

I think if history sees the Stinger for what it actually is and take the badge-colored glasses off, it won't be as a failed experiment or a car that outclasses BMW/Audi/Mercedes, but as Kia stuffing a ton of car into a great pricepoint and it held its own under almost every single comparison.

 

[Chris Erickson]

You guys are bringing some absolute heat to this discussion, and honestly, you've completely changed the direction of the debate.

First off, that point about the upgrade path is huge. It's completely true that the Stinger's integrated exhaust manifolds tend to choke the engine once you try to push past 500 horsepower. If you're a tuner, that's a hard wall compared to a BMW inline six that easily takes bolt ons and a quick tune to hit crazy numbers. When you look at it that way, the mechanical design itself kept it from being a true German killer for heavy modifiers.

And the math you guys laid out on the pricing is tough to argue with. Comparing a 55k twin turbo V6 to a 56k base model Audi with a tiny four cylinder puts things in perspective real quick. It isn't just a price discount - it's a completely different class of performance for the exact same money.

But that brings us right back to the biggest elephant in the room: the dealership experience and the future. If Kia's service department is still their biggest hurdle to overcome, and every brand new replacement car on the market is now totally loaded with telemetry and telemetry spyware, where does that leave you guys?

If your Stinger got totaled tomorrow, are you forced to buy a Euro car and pay the badge tax just to get treated right at service, or do you immediately dive into the used market to find the exact same car you've already got?

 

[Redleg94]

You guys are bringing some absolute heat to this discussion, and honestly, you've completely changed the direction of the debate.

First off, that point about the upgrade path is huge. It's completely true that the Stinger's integrated exhaust manifolds tend to choke the engine once you try to push past 500 horsepower. If you're a tuner, that's a hard wall compared to a BMW inline six that easily takes bolt ons and a quick tune to hit crazy numbers. When you look at it that way, the mechanical design itself kept it from being a true German killer for heavy modifiers.

And the math you guys laid out on the pricing is tough to argue with. Comparing a 55k twin turbo V6 to a 56k base model Audi with a tiny four cylinder puts things in perspective real quick. It isn't just a price discount - it's a completely different class of performance for the exact same money.

But that brings us right back to the biggest elephant in the room: the dealership experience and the future. If Kia's service department is still their biggest hurdle to overcome, and every brand new replacement car on the market is now totally loaded with telemetry and telemetry spyware, where does that leave you guys?

If your Stinger got totaled tomorrow, are you forced to buy a Euro car and pay the badge tax just to get treated right at service, or do you immediately dive into the used market to find the exact same car you've already got?

Your last sentence is the real kicker. If I were forced to replace my Stinger today, I don't know what I would replace it with. The only car that might even come close with a similar combination of performance, cost, and style might be the Acura Integra Type S. Yes, it is Front Wheel Drive, but size, power to weight, and cost are comparable.

 

[Snicklefritz]

If your Stinger got totaled tomorrow, are you forced to buy a Euro car and pay the badge tax just to get treated right at service, or do you immediately dive into the used market to find the exact same car you've already got?

I already did that. It's why I have two Stingers. My original one wasn't totaled, it turned out. In fact it was fully healed.

As long as Stingers are out there to shop for, if I had to make the decision again, "what to drive", it would be another Stinger for me.

If Stingers are not practical anymore, I will completely change my focus and look around for an "old school" fun car. Some that I'd consider would be as far back as the mid-60s.

I actually got spooked once at an electrical fubar and did a brief search for a Mercury Cougar. Saw one advertised that was local for $18K rebuilt. Now that's a price I can get behind. But, when I reached out for a test drive nobody came back to me. I reckoned it had been snapped up already.

Haven't done any shopping around since, because the electrical fubar ended up being very minor, so minor that I don't remember what it was. Ha hah.

I am not averse to American muscle. As long as I can't get a GT with a hatch, I will just have to go with "fun" and practical divided between two vehicles. I'd likely get a Telluride for real life situations, and my fun car to drive would be the older one. A front-engine Corvette would be in the running. I wouldn't go so far afield as to actually get a Cobra - copy of course, the originals are prohibitively expensive, and besides are not as good as the make believe Cobras. But I'd probably pursue that long enough to actually test drive one finally.

 

[JSolo]

Your last sentence is the real kicker. If I were forced to replace my Stinger today, I don't know what I would replace it with. The only car that might even come close with a similar combination of performance, cost, and style might be the Acura Integra Type S. Yes, it is Front Wheel Drive, but size, power to weight, and cost are comparable.

What does the Integra's 24.3 cu. ft. of cargo space actually mean in real world situations...

Picture this, today I'm in a Costco garden center losing all inhibition to purchase some fruit trees and other garden supplies while the wife is doing a spot of shopping inside for some food for the week. Compulsion prevails and I end up buying: - 2x eight foot trees (cherry and plum for those...

www.integraforums.com

Hmm...

Not sure I can wrap my head around owning another honda....

 

[turboAWD]

Price was definitely a factor for me. As was comfort - I was all set on a Q50 SS AWD (in brown even!!) from Carmax. $27K in ~2017 or 2018 with like 25-30K miles on it. An E85 tune and a few bolt ons, and it's faster than almost any Stinger. But the sport seat had some kind of weird metal in the bolster that dug into my thigh (I'm not a small dude) - after sitting in it for an hour, my thigh was sore for a month! Clearly a no-go. This was after finding an even worse seat in a G37x 3-4 years before that, so I realized it was an Infiniti thing - clearly, they di NOT offer you infinite space in their seats.

When my Legacy GT wagon died (rear diff gave up the ghost, after 14 years, I was ready for something new), I knew that a Stinger was what I wanted. I drove a Scat Pack a few months before, but the skinny tires were pathetic (squealing on low-speed turns!) and there was nothing with the electronic suspension under like $55-60K anywhere near me. The Stinger had lease cash, and if I had bought-out after 3 months, I could have had it for ~$42K. As it was, I rode out the lease (Covid) and bought it out at the end, so I ended up paying around MSRP (~47K?). Such is life.

Would I have bought a 340ix at the same price? Assuming rear legroom was the same, every day and twice on Sunday. Sat in an S4/S5 and it was too small for my kids back then (2016 or 2017) and I assume the 340i of that generation was as well, though.

Today, even the Stinger's rear seat is an issue for my kids (5'7" and 5'9") because I like to put my seat all the way back. And in the end, the weird seat design (it caused me to put more weight on my tailbone than other seats) may have contributed to a chronic sore tailbone that I have today. Hard to say for sure. Won't hold it against the car (it didn't surface initially while sitting in the car, just saying it might have contributed to it).

At 7 years today (I think) from the day I bought it - I'm considering a replacement. 62K miles, been in 2 accidents (neither my fault), have had some track day fun, etc. I'm also in a bit better financial position now than 7 years ago, so I just might do it. The chronic brake issues (even non-OEM pads have resulted in deposits, my passenger side squeals after 8-12 months when backing up every single time, only fix is new rotors), worries about future repairs, etc. It's been pretty good so far, never left me stranded.

Or, pass it off to the wife (although she probably needs something SUVis for her hip, ideally something we can take family roadtrips in like a CX-5/CX-9 turbo or something and give up the minivan), let the kids get the GTI, and buy something new for me. What would I buy? Possibly Ioniq 5 N, or maybe 340xi / M3. I COULD splurge for an RS6 (I love wagons), but it feels wasteful to spend that much on a car.. Maybe if my company's stock triples..