Something interesting is going on at Kia Corporate...

[Kia Stinger]

We're having a little discussion here about a survey sent out regarding the replacement of the traditional "KIA" badge. If you checked out that discussion - I think we can come to a pretty firm conclusion that Kia is NOT going to use that "K 3.0" badge as their official new logo - or whatever - because it's too similar to the Lexus "L".

So... What's the only obvious choice? Well, there are two. One is another Kia "K" logo used on various models. That one can be seen here. I think a variation of that badge is possible.

But... However... They've already got the "E Badge". They're putting time and money into this - and are now actually asking people everywhere what they think about it.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I REALLY do not think Kia is going to put the "E" badge on all their cars. Nor do I really see them putting it on a high-end version of the Optima, Cadenza, or even K900... I can kinda sorta see it on the Stinger because Buick did something similar with the old "Riviera". There were no Buick badges on those cars. It was the script "R" badge...

So what I'm thinking is... I have a feeling Kia is, at least lightly considering, a new brand - starting with the letter "E". Maybe? What do you think?

If Kia were to launch a luxury sub brand with a name that starts with the letter "E" - what would/should it be?

Here are a few in case you want to play...

EBULLIENCE, ELEGANCE, ELITE, EMBOLDEN, EMINENCE, EUPHORIA, EXALTED, EXCELLENCE, EXHILARATION, EXQUISITE, EXUBERANCE, EXULT...

 

[Bob DeVellis]

How about "Elusive." What exactly is with those E badges? I've wondered ever since I fist saw one. I was trying to see if it was representing something with a stinger on it (not as far as I could tell), a stylized "K" (no, not that either), and have basically just been baffled. Is it kind of like the "M" on BMW's representing the more performance-oriented products? Enhanced? That would be a pretty tame adjective to use for a performance line. Are they planning to spin off an upscale series like Hyundai has done with Genesis and the E represents the as-yet-unknown name for that line? If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't have to "make sense" anymore then "Acura" or "Lexus" makes sense. I just hope if that's the case, whatever name they decide on actually begins with the letter E.

Unless and until they can wed some clearer identity to the symbol, I don't think it's serving them particularly well.

 

[Kia Stinger]

How about "Elusive." What exactly is with those E badges? I've wondered ever since I fist saw one. I was trying to see if it was representing something with a stinger on it (not as far as I could tell), a stylized "K" (no, not that either), and have basically just been baffled. Is it kind of like the "M" on BMW's representing the more performance-oriented products? Enhanced? That would be a pretty tame adjective to use for a performance line. Are they planning to spin off an upscale series like Hyundai has done with Genesis and the E represents the as-yet-unknown name for that line? If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't have to "make sense" anymore then "Acura" or "Lexus" makes sense. I just hope if that's the case, whatever name they decide on actually begins with the letter E.

Unless and until they can wed some clearer identity to the symbol, I don't think it's serving them particularly well.

Don't ever go after Elusive Motors for a lemon law case! I really don't know, I'm in the same boat you are. It just has to be about a new brand name starting with the letter E. Otherwise, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Here's what they say:

• Engineered by Excellence
• Exclusive
• Exquisite
• Evolutionary

I don't know... I'm having trouble believing that's the whole story...

 

[ibmaxx]

Only one likelihood and it's this - Extrasupercalifragilisticexpialidocious

It's being delayed a bit as Mary Poppins has filed a breach of copyright suit at the Hague. Watch this space.

 

[Chris]

I'm not sure changing the badge will help anything for Kia.
1) I think the "e" badge looks only marginly better than the Kia badge
2) this is the big one, I would guess at least 75% of the people that rebadge a Kia, it is because of the "stigma" of driving a Kia itself. With a different badge people don't know it's a Kia. If Kia just changed the badge to something else everyone would still recognize it as a Kia and a lot of people would still want a different badge. I don't think the Kia badge looks any worse than the Ford badge, and you don't see near as many people rebadging fords..

 

[Plainolmoo]

I'm not sure changing the badge will help anything for Kia.
1) I think the "e" badge looks only marginly better than the Kia badge
2) this is the big one, I would guess at least 75% of the people that rebadge a Kia, it is because of the "stigma" of driving a Kia itself. With a different badge people don't know it's a Kia. If Kia just changed the badge to something else everyone would still recognize it as a Kia and a lot of people would still want a different badge. I don't think the Kia badge looks any worse than the Ford badge, and you don't see near as many people rebadging fords..

You underestimate the human subconscious. That old KIA logo is burned into our subconscious and evokes feelings of negativity (cheapness, unreliability ect) without even thinking about it. Kia is making a statement with the Stinger, that they are not the Kia of old. What better way than by starting with a new badge? Average person sees Awesome new car with a strange badge. Hovers around a bit trying to figure out what kind of car. Owner approaches and gets asked WHAT IS IT?? Average Joe leaves thinking WOW, THAT WAS A KIA! Seed planted and never had that old feeling of YUCK enter his or her mind. My .02.

 

[eljay]

Why not Elan? Kia maybe still owns the name: https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/the-kia-elan-was-a-lotus-sold-as-a-kia-262929

 

[Kia Stinger]

So what I'm thinking is... I have a feeling Kia is, at least lightly considering, a new brand - starting with the letter "E". Maybe? What do you think?

I'm not sure changing the badge will help anything for Kia.
1) I think the "e" badge looks only marginly better than the Kia badge
2) this is the big one, I would guess at least 75% of the people that rebadge a Kia, it is because of the "stigma" of driving a Kia itself. With a different badge people don't know it's a Kia. If Kia just changed the badge to something else everyone would still recognize it as a Kia and a lot of people would still want a different badge. I don't think the Kia badge looks any worse than the Ford badge, and you don't see near as many people rebadging fords..

See above quote. I'm not talking about "changing the badge". I'm talking about starting a new sub brand. That's what this conversation is about. Like @Plainolmoo so, it's possible it could help Kia out - getting rid of that bland KIA badge. And like you said, @Chris, it's possible it doesn't help. Who knows? But what I'm talking about here is that I feel Kia is considering using that "E" for a new name/brand - because I really, REALLY don't think they're going to replace KIA with E. So somewhere else must be going on...

Only one likelihood and it's this - Extrasupercalifragilisticexpialidocious

It's being delayed a bit as Mary Poppins has filed a breach of copyright suit at the Hague. Watch this space.

I think you just nailed it.

Why not Elan? Kia maybe still owns the name: https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/the-kia-elan-was-a-lotus-sold-as-a-kia-262929

Or maybe it'll be Elan! I like it!

 

[Bob DeVellis]

Wouldn't Lotus be upset if they called it Elan?

 

[Fergalis]

We're having a little discussion here about a survey sent out regarding the replacement of the traditional "KIA" badge. If you checked out that discussion - I think we can come to a pretty firm conclusion that Kia is NOT going to use that "K 3.0" badge as their official new logo - or whatever - because it's too similar to the Lexus "L".

So... What's the only obvious choice? Well, there are two. One is another Kia "K" logo used on various models. That one can be seen here. I think a variation of that badge is possible.

But... However... They've already got the "E Badge". They're putting time and money into this - and are now actually asking people everywhere what they think about it.

EBULLIENCE, ELEGANCE, ELITE, EMBOLDEN, EMINENCE, EUPHORIA, EXALTED, EXCELLENCE, EXHILARATION, EXQUISITE, EXUBERANCE, EXULT...

The problem for me with the 'E' badge, is the lack of connection with anything notionally substantial. That it's used by Kia in its home market relates to peculiar Asian cultural mindsets that don't translate well to western ideas of symbolism. Either Kia needs to hold on to its brand as is and develop it by continuing to 'evolve' the design language for their new and replacement model ranges, or spin off completely into a separate premium identity. After seeing pictures of their recent 'Shooting Brake ProCeed' concept, I'd prefer they hold onto their existing 'KIA' branding and allow it to transform the marque over time. Otherwise, they risk the schizophrenic mess you see with the Honda North American marketing fiasco, with Acura 'trying to be a Lexus'. Outside of America, Honda rightly stands proudly in attaching their standard 'Honda' badge to their NXS supercar, and I think KIA need to learn to do similar. I won't be attaching 'E' badges to my Stinger.

 

[Merkur720]

The problem for me with the 'E' badge, is the lack of connection with anything notionally substantial. That it's used by Kia in its home market relates to peculiar Asian cultural mindsets that don't translate well to western ideas of symbolism. Either Kia needs to hold on to its brand as is and develop it by continuing to 'evolve' the design language for their new and replacement model ranges, or spin off completely into a separate premium identity. After seeing pictures of their recent 'Shooting Brake ProCeed' concept, I'd prefer they hold onto their existing 'KIA' branding and allow it to transform the marque over time. Otherwise, they risk the schizophrenic mess you see with the Honda North American marketing fiasco, with Acura 'trying to be a Lexus'. Outside of America, Honda rightly stands proudly in attaching their standard 'Honda' badge to their NXS supercar, and I think KIA need to learn to do similar. I won't be attaching 'E' badges to my Stinger.

So true about Acura.

 

[Kia Stinger]

The problem for me with the 'E' badge, is the lack of connection with anything notionally substantial. That it's used by Kia in its home market relates to peculiar Asian cultural mindsets that don't translate well to western ideas of symbolism. Either Kia needs to hold on to its brand as is and develop it by continuing to 'evolve' the design language for their new and replacement model ranges, or spin off completely into a separate premium identity. After seeing pictures of their recent 'Shooting Brake ProCeed' concept, I'd prefer they hold onto their existing 'KIA' branding and allow it to transform the marque over time. Otherwise, they risk the schizophrenic mess you see with the Honda North American marketing fiasco, with Acura 'trying to be a Lexus'. Outside of America, Honda rightly stands proudly in attaching their standard 'Honda' badge to their NXS supercar, and I think KIA need to learn to do similar. I won't be attaching 'E' badges to my Stinger.

That's definitely an option and a way forward. Toyota didn't start putting the Lexus badge on vehicles in Japan until somewhat recently. It's interesting that Honda still uses the "Honda" badge in Japan - but it makes sense. But even Hyundai feels the best option moving forward is to start a separate brand for their luxury products. I think Kia, even more so than Hyundai, has a steep hill to climb to sell expensive products under their oval badge. But I do believe Kia could earn respect over time. The real question then is - how patient are they?

 

[Taimaishoo]

supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Even though the sound is something quite atrocious

 

[Fergalis]

That's definitely an option and a way forward. Toyota didn't start putting the Lexus badge on vehicles in Japan until somewhat recently. It's interesting that Honda still uses the "Honda" badge in Japan - but it makes sense. But even Hyundai feels the best option moving forward is to start a separate brand for their luxury products. I think Kia, even more so than Hyundai, has a steep hill to climb to sell expensive products under their oval badge. But I do believe Kia could earn respect over time. The real question then is - how patient are they?

I think Kia here in New Zealand has achieved a consistent shifting of public perception in recent years. Their newer models generally review well in the MSM and are often compared favorably above their Hyundai stablemate cousins. That the original GT concept became the Stinger (and translated VERY well), and with the more recent GT4 and Shooting Brake concepts, tells me Kia has a well-defined strategy to transform the 'Brand'. Stinger is reviewing with universal praise from motoring journalists, so Kia now needs to translate that into the buying public's awareness. The base Stinger and 2.0T GT's are line-ball with some models of Accord, Camry, GM (Insignia) etc, so they have a real opportunity. Plus here in New Zealand (and Australia), there's been a traditional cult following around 6 & 8 cylinder rear-drive sedans from Holden (GM) and Ford, and with their recent demises, Kia stands a good opportunity to capture the family man that wants an attractive affordable performance vehicle while being able to haul around the rug-rats without compromise. If the Shooting Brake concept makes it to production in either station wagon or SUV guise, Kia can have their cake and eat it IMHO.

 

[Kia Stinger]

I think Kia here in New Zealand has achieved a consistent shifting of public perception in recent years. Their newer models generally review well in the MSM and are often compared favorably above their Hyundai stablemate cousins. That the original GT concept became the Stinger (and translated VERY well), and with the more recent GT4 and Shooting Brake concepts, tells me Kia has a well-defined strategy to transform the 'Brand'. Stinger is reviewing with universal praise from motoring journalists, so Kia now needs to translate that into the buying public's awareness. The base Stinger and 2.0T GT's are line-ball with some models of Accord, Camry, GM (Insignia) etc, so they have a real opportunity. Plus here in New Zealand (and Australia), there's been a traditional cult following around 6 & 8 cylinder rear-drive sedans from Holden (GM) and Ford, and with their recent demises, Kia stands a good opportunity to capture the family man that wants an attractive affordable performance vehicle while being able to haul around the rug-rats without compromise. If the Shooting Brake concept makes it to production in either station wagon or SUV guise, Kia can have their cake and eat it IMHO.

Yes, I think that shooting brake idea is a good one. They need to expand on the Stinger. Imagine a "Stinger" sub-brand? I wonder... But Kia does have an amazing opportunity here and they REALLY need to get the word out to the public. They REALLY need to get the Stinger GT (aggressive style) out on the streets for people to see. Most of the dealers in the U.S. aren't helping with the $10,000 markups - but I think most people are getting around that and getting their car out on the road. That'll help...

 

[Euljiro1ga]

A few years back Hyundai did this badge with the Tuscani - they only used the T-badge all over the car, exactly the same thing Kia is doing on the Stinger in Korea. That T-badge did not go anywhere beyond the Tuscani.

 

[Kia Stinger]

A few years back Hyundai did this badge with the Tuscani - they only used the T-badge all over the car, exactly the same thing Kia is doing on the Stinger in Korea. That T-badge did not go anywhere beyond the Tuscani.

Yes, I remember. That was a pretty cool looking badge. Buick did the same thing with the Riviera - there was no mention of Buick on the outside of the car. Just a script "R". They very well could be looking to ONLY change the badge for the Stinger outside of South Korea. But I think they're considering SOMETHING for the rest of their vehicles as well.

Brands like Cadillac have gone through a tremendous amount of badge/logo changes over the years. It's not a bad thing - just a progression...

 

[Bob DeVellis]

Yeah, but Tuscani begins with T and Riviera begins with R. Where does the E come from?

 

[Kia Stinger]

Yeah, but Tuscani begins with T and Riviera begins with R. Where does the E come from?

Definitely odd but if Kia put an "S" on the Stinger, everybody would be freaking out. The criticism would literally never end...

 

[ibmaxx]

Yeah, but Tuscani begins with T and Riviera begins with R. Where does the E come from?

I now have it on the highest authority that the 'E' has a double barrelled meaning -

1) it means ERG being a unit of energy "An erg is the amount of work done by a force of one dyne exerted for a distance of one centimeter. In the CGS base units, it is equal to one gram centimeter-squared per second-squared (g·cm2/s2). It is thus equal to 10−7 joules or 100 nanojoules (nJ) in SI units. An erg is approximately the amount of work done (or energy consumed) by one common house fly performing one "push up," the leg-bending dip that brings its mouth to the surface on which it stands and back up." Now I know you all know this so sorry to point out the obvious. Wonder how many ergs in 372hp? Anyone?

2) ERG is also the sound you make when you see the sticker price.