New Brakes Coming

[jinthadell]

Just order the Powerstop pad and rotor combo for front and rear. $672 shipped from RockAuto. The R1 set I have now have lasted 60k miles. They still have 1/4-1/2 pad left but are starting to make a little noise and vibrate. I got a little extra cash right now so might as well do it.

 

[jinthadell]

Got them on! Super quiet and smooth! I forgot how nice it is to have new brakes. Powerstop Z26 pads w/ Powerstop slotted and drilled rotors. I would highly suggest them if any of yall are due for a brake job.

 

[DeltaV]

I’m looking at the same solution for my ‘22 GT2 AWD.

The stock rotors and pads are fine but with this much mass the decel rate wasn’t sufficient.

CarboTech Brakes is local, so I had them make up a set of front streetable track pads that REALLY put the WHIOA into the pedal but dusted so much it threw off the wheel balance, so the stock pads went back on.

Now it’s time again.

Do the Z26 pads give you noticeable extra braking power?

I’m alternately looking at either:

Using the PowerStop rotors in the Z26 kit and Brembo HP2/2000 NAO ceramic pads.

Or

Hawk Talon rotors and HPS 5.0 pads.

I ran the old Hawk HPS (streetable track pads) on my RX-8 while the rest of the track club ran HP Plus (trackable street pads). I had better performance at the cost of grey swaths down the sides of my (grey) car. The HPS 5.0 are supposedly far less dusty, but I have no reliable evidence.

The Hawk Blue were FANTASTIC track-only pads on my FD RX-7. I was outbraking Porsche GT3s going into Sunset Bend and the original Hairpin at Sebring at similar terminal velocities, but is Hawk as good as they were back then? And hauling down 4000+ pounds on the stock Kia/Brembo hardware is far different than 2600 pounds on 14” Wilwood 6-pots.

Thoughts?

 

[jinthadell]

I’m looking at the same solution for my ‘22 GT2 AWD.

The stock rotors and pads are fine but with this much mass the decel rate wasn’t sufficient.

CarboTech Brakes is local, so I had them make up a set of front streetable track pads that REALLY put the WHIOA into the pedal but dusted so much it threw off the wheel balance, so the stock pads went back on.

Now it’s time again.

Do the Z26 pads give you noticeable extra braking power?

I’m alternately looking at either:

Using the PowerStop rotors in the Z26 kit and Brembo HP2/2000 NAO ceramic pads.

Or

Hawk Talon rotors and HPS 5.0 pads.

I ran the old Hawk HPS (streetable track pads) on my RX-8 while the rest of the track club ran HP Plus (trackable street pads). I had better performance at the cost of grey swaths down the sides of my (grey) car. The HPS 5.0 are supposedly far less dusty, but I have no reliable evidence.

The Hawk Blue were FANTASTIC track-only pads on my FD RX-7. I was outbraking Porsche GT3s going into Sunset Bend and the original Hairpin at Sebring at similar terminal velocities, but is Hawk as good as they were back then? And hauling down 4000+ pounds on the stock Kia/Brembo hardware is far different than 2600 pounds on 14” Wilwood 6-pots.

Thoughts?

There is a noticeable difference in pedal feel and definitely shorter stopping distances using the Powerstop rotors and Z26 pads. I don’t get a lot of dust from these pads but the front clunk did show up. They clunk on the first press of the pedal either going from forward to reverse or reverse to forward. But I know what it’s from and doesn’t bother me.

 

[Volfy]

I’m looking at the same solution for my ‘22 GT2 AWD.

The stock rotors and pads are fine but with this much mass the decel rate wasn’t sufficient.

CarboTech Brakes is local, so I had them make up a set of front streetable track pads that REALLY put the WHIOA into the pedal but dusted so much it threw off the wheel balance, so the stock pads went back on.

Now it’s time again.

Do the Z26 pads give you noticeable extra braking power?

I’m alternately looking at either:

Using the PowerStop rotors in the Z26 kit and Brembo HP2/2000 NAO ceramic pads.

Or

Hawk Talon rotors and HPS 5.0 pads.

I ran the old Hawk HPS (streetable track pads) on my RX-8 while the rest of the track club ran HP Plus (trackable street pads). I had better performance at the cost of grey swaths down the sides of my (grey) car. The HPS 5.0 are supposedly far less dusty, but I have no reliable evidence.

The Hawk Blue were FANTASTIC track-only pads on my FD RX-7. I was outbraking Porsche GT3s going into Sunset Bend and the original Hairpin at Sebring at similar terminal velocities, but is Hawk as good as they were back then? And hauling down 4000+ pounds on the stock Kia/Brembo hardware is far different than 2600 pounds on 14” Wilwood 6-pots.

Thoughts?

If you're serious about improving on OEM brake performance, consider the following:

1. Look at the friction coefficient (Mu) curve of the aftermarket pad. It'll tell you everything from cold bite to thermal capacity at higher pad temps.

2. You need to very honest with how you drive and what is important to you. Look at the difference between HPS and HPS 5.0, for example:

The HPS 5.0 has higher Mu at lower temp but starts to fall off sharply at higher temp. HPS has lower Mu at lower temp but falls off slower at higher temp. So, realistically for the majority of folks driving street, HPS 5.0 will likely offer better overall performance. However, if how you drive involves repeated stops, HPS will be less prone to brake fade. Still, neither is what I would consider track worthy. There is a reason why Hawk named them High Performance Street.

To be truly track ready, the pad will need maintain Mu at higher temps way better that both of these street compounds. Threshold braking corner after corner will send brake temps soaring in a jiffy. Enough to cook plastic hubcentric rings at the first track day I took the Stinger to. However, the cost for that thermal capacity is higher brake dust, and that is just how the cookie crumbles. There is no way around it, unless you are willing - and able - to shell out big $$$ for esoterics like carbon ceramic brakes. If so, Stinger isn't the car for you anyway.

Buy the pads that best suit your intended application. If you want your Stinger to multi-task a wide variety of driving conditions, be prepared to decide - and live with - some compromises.

 

[DeltaV]

If you're serious about improving on OEM brake performance, consider the following:

1. Look at the friction coefficient (Mu) curve of the aftermarket pad. It'll tell you everything from cold bite to thermal capacity at higher pad temps.

2. You need to very honest with how you drive and what is important to you. Look at the difference between HPS and HPS 5.0, for example:

The HPS 5.0 has higher Mu at lower temp but starts to fall off sharply at higher temp. HPS has lower Mu at lower temp but falls off slower at higher temp. So, realistically for the majority of folks driving street, HPS 5.0 will likely offer better overall performance. However, if how you drive involves repeated stops, HPS will be less prone to brake fade. Still, neither is what I would consider track worthy. There is a reason why Hawk named them High Performance Street.

To be truly track ready, the pad will need maintain Mu at higher temps way better that both of these street compounds. Threshold braking corner after corner will send brake temps soaring in a jiffy. Enough to cook plastic hubcentric rings at the first track day I took the Stinger to. However, the cost for that thermal capacity is higher brake dust, and that is just how the cookie crumbles. There is no way around it, unless you are willing - and able - to shell out big $$$ for esoterics like carbon ceramic brakes. If so, Stinger isn't the car for you anyway.

Buy the pads that best suit your intended application. If you want your Stinger to multi-task a wide variety of driving conditions, be prepared to decide - and live with - some compromises.

Yes, I was looking at the Hawk-provided coefficient of friction v temp graphs yesterday, but not sure how engineering v marketing they are. Check the ceramic pads. Does this look like a ceramic curve to you? Honest question as things may have change mucho since my track days. Mu of 0.50 from nearly dust-free ceramic? Is that now possible?



The other pads aren’t as forthcoming with their graphs, so head-to-head is difficult.

Also, I won’t be tracking it, but I run the mountain roads around here like I’m still in the RX-8…or try to. Until the smell of well-used brakes starts leaning towards abused brakes. Don’t worry, these are Tail of the Dragon kinda roads. No houses, no side roads, no crossing center or side lines.

But, seriously, I appreciate the input. Calling my local Hawk supplier (and AP and Ferodo - yes, apparently they are still around) is on my to do list for Monday. Hawk doesn’t list specs or much of anything useful on their site. Shame since they were great to work with in the ‘90s. As I mentioned, I ran Blues in the front for track days and Blacks all around for street. (Blacks in the rear on track.) They had me test a set of Hawk Greens as well, but I didn’t like their profile. Not sure if that had anything to do with why they never made it to market.

 

[DeltaV]

There is a noticeable difference in pedal feel and definitely shorter stopping distances using the Powerstop rotors and Z26 pads. I don’t get a lot of dust from these pads but the front clunk did show up. They clunk on the first press of the pedal either going from forward to reverse or reverse to forward. But I know what it’s from and doesn’t bother me.

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you’re seeing additional performance.

The clunk, I hear, is due to the pad being slightly too small, then slamming into the caliper body on each braking event after a direction change. When I had CarboTech make my pads, he specifically called out that the Brembo caliper we have had an odd size (he strongly recommended upgrading to the Lexus LS-F front Brembo calipers - direct bolt-on and hold better pad shapes and sizes, but $$$. I’ll see if I can find the specific Brembo backing plate he used. 1001 sticks in my mind, but that could be the incorrect design…

 

[Volfy]

Yes, I was looking at the Hawk-provided coefficient of friction v temp graphs yesterday, but not sure how engineering v marketing they are. Check the ceramic pads. Does this look like a ceramic curve to you? Honest question as things may have change mucho since my track days. Mu of 0.50 from nearly dust-free ceramic? Is that now possible?

View attachment 91356

The other pads aren’t as forthcoming with their graphs, so head-to-head is difficult.

Also, I won’t be tracking it, but I run the mountain roads around here like I’m still in the RX-8…or try to. Until the smell of well-used brakes starts leaning towards abused brakes. Don’t worry, these are Tail of the Dragon kinda roads. No houses, no side roads, no crossing center or side lines.

But, seriously, I appreciate the input. Calling my local Hawk supplier (and AP and Ferodo - yes, apparently they are still around) is on my to do list for Monday. Hawk doesn’t list specs or much of anything useful on their site. Shame since they were great to work with in the ‘90s. As I mentioned, I ran Blues in the front for track days and Blacks all around for street. (Blacks in the rear on track.) They had me test a set of Hawk Greens as well, but I didn’t like their profile. Not sure if that had anything to do with why they never made it to market.

Not all ceramic pad compounds behave similarly. I can certainly believe that Hawk PC curve you posted above - as far as the high-temp roll-off characteristics are concerned. I do agree each mfr's exact numbers might not always be directly comparable with other brands, as the testing methods might differ. IMO, they are generally good for comparing with other offerings from the same mfr.

For me, on a performance-oriented car that I care a lot about braking performance, I wouldn't consider pads that don't have tech data (like the Mu curve). On other, more pedestrian, vehicles... I might not be so strict.

Sometime, mfrs would post cross-references for some of their pads. Good example here. Again, take them with a healthy sized grain of salt, but still... better than those mfrs that don't post ANY data and just spout a whole bunch of superlatives.

You can do all the research you want, but at the end of the day, the only way to know for sure is to install them on your own car and try them out. Nothing beat first hand experience. Sometimes, you just have to take a leap of faith.

 

[DeltaV]

Not all ceramic pad compounds behave similarly. I can certainly believe that Hawk PC curve you posted above - as far as the high-temp roll-off characteristics are concerned. I do agree each mfr's exact numbers might not always be directly comparable with other brands, as the testing methods might differ. IMO, they are generally good for comparing with other offerings from the same mfr.

For me, on a performance-oriented car that I care a lot about braking performance, I wouldn't consider pads that don't have tech data (like the Mu curve). On other, more pedestrian, vehicles... I might not be so strict.

Sometime, mfrs would post cross-references for some of their pads. Good example here. Again, take them with a healthy sized grain of salt, but still... better than those mfrs that don't post ANY data and just spout a whole bunch of superlatives.

You can do all the research you want, but at the end of the day, the only way to know for sure is to install them on your own car and try them out. Nothing beat first hand experience. Sometimes, you just have to take a leap of faith.

Completely agree. Was just trying to see if there was available data to reduce the option count.

Thanks, again!

 

[DeltaV]

Yep, 1001.

 

[jinthadell]

Yep, 1001.

And you said they recommended the LS-F caliper as a direct bolt on replacement? Did they happen to mention the year?

 

[DeltaV]

And you said they recommended the LS-F caliper as a direct bolt on replacement? Did they happen to mention the year?

Not that I recall.

My best guess, until I reach out to them, is this…so 2016/2017…

Brembo 1M1.9018A2 - Brake Kit, GT Series, Drilled 380mm x 32mm 2-Piece Rotor, Monobloc 6-Piston Red Caliper

.

www.buybrakes.com

 

[Volfy]

Not that I recall.

My best guess, until I reach out to them, is this…so 2016/2017…

Brembo 1M1.9018A2 - Brake Kit, GT Series, Drilled 380mm x 32mm 2-Piece Rotor, Monobloc 6-Piston Red Caliper

.

www.buybrakes.com

Don't much care for the heavily cross-drilled rotors, but if those calipers fit, that would be a game changer. I've been looking for a 6-pot front upgrade. Came close to pulling the trigger on the Fella BBK, until I read reports of structural failure of the caliper body.