Kia, you've disappointed me

[sil25rs]

Hi folks,

Wanted to share my experience with Kia service centers and dealerships.

I recently took my stinger to a dealership in my area due to leak I saw between the engine and the transmission. I actually took it twice because the first time they could not "find the source of the leak" want put a dye on the crankcase and told me to drive it for 1k miles. That seemed to long and I checked the area 2 days later and sure enough, the leak is still there. I took it back a week later and only then did they determine that the leak was coming from the rear main seal. They filed a claim with Kia and noted that they did see a pedal tuner connected to my car during that time. They denied my claim for the work due to the pedal tuner! I know I should have took it off but that did not cause the leak and it does not say it is not legal or for use in Cali.

Has this happened to anyone as far as being denied a warranty claim?
What are my chances of getting the work done under a warranty? I have the extended warranty but does that even do anything for me?
Pedal tuners have no performance benefits, let alone cause a rear main seal leak to occur.

I am the second owner of this stinger and I have no idea the history prior to me owning it.

I am at a loss for words and want to know if it is something i should fight tooth and nail with Kia for. I wanted to trust the process but the process looks to be failing me.

I was told to contact consumer affairs but how ugly can that get?

Kia, I had high hopes for you.

 

[ElChanclo]

I've found that Kia's service centers are their weakest link unfortunately, they've taught me the true price of "peace of mind".
The design and engineering are spot on, build is pretty good too. But I had to visit half a dozen showrooms before I found a competent salesperson, and I'm finding their service centers to be equally hit and miss.

If you escalate your case eventually they'll have to make an argument as to HOW your mod/s could've caused the damage, and you want to give them as little ammo as possible.

I'm not overly familiar with inner workings of pedal tuners, but if they can make a compelling logical argument, you're SOL. I'm torn on doing any deeper performance mods for this very reason.

 

[sil25rs]

Thanks for the input.

If I can do the work myself or have a trusted shop do something, I always avoid dealerships and services centers like the plague. The one time I actually need a repair that is beyond my capability, the manufacturer s on my reassurance.

Pedal tuners simply increase or decrease the pedal input from the gas pedal and lets you play with the response of the accelerator. It does NOT add hp or added stress to the engine. Even the vendor's website states it is 50 state emissions legal (for what its worth). Im sure I am not the only one where I noticed that there is a slight delay in the pedal input when I get on the gas to when it actually registers on throttle. With the pedal tuner, it can decrease that so it is a more natural feel.

When you say "escalate" you mean taking it up with Kia since the dealership "cant" do anything else for me?

 

[ElChanclo]

When you say "escalate" you mean taking it up with Kia since the dealership "cant" do anything else for me?

I've never had to, but I'm reading up on it as I'm getting the runaround from my latest service. But yes, eventually you have to contact corporate and they can make the final decision, as they reimburse the shop for the work in the end.

 

[Ah GetFd]

Dealerships only offer warranty that they can be reimbursed by the factory. If the factory says no the dealer says no.

I think you have two choices

Leave the car unmodified until expiration of factory warranty OR do what you like to it and forget about warranty.

 

[sil25rs]

Dealerships only offer warranty that they can be reimbursed by the factory. If the factory says no the dealer says no.

I think you have two choices

Leave the car unmodified until expiration of factory warranty OR do what you like to it and forget about warranty.

Thanks for the input. I believe the 5yr/60mile factory warranty ends this year (month) since its a 2019.

**Moderators, can you please move this thread to the appropriate section, if possible. I needed to vent and did not know where to.

 

[Ah GetFd]

I don't know what a pedal tuner is but if ANY mechanical work is performed on a car by an after market person that takes something apart and puts it back together then your warranty is absolutely void in that area if you later make a claim.

My question is why...........

Why do these mods that add nothing

 

[Snicklefritz]

The turbo/pedal lag in the 2.0L is noticeable enough to make me read the posts about pedal tuners and think about it. I do also read about warranty arguments with KIA, and they are rather numerous. Most of the sagas turn out well enough, but they are lengthy and painful to read. There is no "takes something apart" about pedal tuners. And they in no fashion interface with a main transmission seal! Ima sure the OP scenario would be a win, finally. But how long would the back and forth be?

 

[Thomby]

I don't know what a pedal tuner is but if ANY mechanical work is performed on a car by an after market person that takes something apart and puts it back together then your warranty is absolutely void in that area if you later make a claim.

This has not been the case since 1975. Magnuson-Moss specifically prohibits warranty "tying", ie voiding solely for using aftermarket parts or independent labor.

 

[Ah GetFd]

Void in that area...........

You would have to prove that the aftermarket work that was done didn't cause a problem then you can invoke your 1975 rule.

They can continue to say no until you do.

 

[Scorpion24]

SoCal dealership?
Since I added mods I haven’t gone back to a dealer.

 

[sil25rs]

funny that you mention that. i bought the car in SoCal but im from NorCal. Id be a bit of a drive for them to deny me again.

 

[Thomby]

Void in that area...........

You would have to prove that the aftermarket work that was done didn't cause a problem then you can invoke your 1975 rule.

They can continue to say no until you do.

M-M does not permit them to void a warranty's provisions due solely to aftermarket parts/work, and require the consumer to prove otherwise -- that would render the law moot because they could simply do that 100% of the time and count on 99.9% of consumers not having the resources to provide proof.

The law puts the onus on the manufacturer to show that aftermarket parts/service caused the defect. Of course, that may still require a lawsuit, so it doesn't guarantee they won't reject coverage initially, but if the part clearly isn't the source of the problem, it's worth escalating and not just giving up.

 

[Landshark]

M-M does not permit them to void a warranty's provisions due solely to aftermarket parts/work, and require the consumer to prove otherwise -- that would render the law moot because they could simply do that 100% of the time and count on 99.9% of consumers not having the resources to provide proof.

The law puts the onus on the manufacturer to show that aftermarket parts/service caused the defect. Of course, that may still require a lawsuit, so it doesn't guarantee they won't reject coverage initially, but if the part clearly isn't the source of the problem, it's worth escalating and not just giving up.

sounds great on paper, until they deny warranty and its you up against the KIA corporate legal team.

remember kids, when you slap mods on, you are rolling the dice with your warranty ...

 

[Thomby]

sounds great on paper, until they deny warranty and its you up against the KIA corporate legal team.

Agree, hence the second part of my post:

Of course, that may still require a lawsuit, so it doesn't guarantee they won't reject coverage initially, but if the part clearly isn't the source of the problem, it's worth escalating and not just giving up.

 

[Ah GetFd]

The power is with the manufacturer. If they don't want to cough up and can point to anomalies then it's up to you to prove it so knock yourself out. Get a lawyer. Pay 10 times the money it would have cost to get the thing fixed and Kia will pay their lawyers and win.

The bottom line is it's modded and that gives me or anyone else the right to say no. I am not going to pay for something that is out of my control.

You may be right. It may have nothing to do with the mods but it gave them an out.

They are going to blow you off. Tell them about the 1975 ruling. That should get some sympathy.

 

[Thomby]

---

The power is with the manufacturer. If they don't want to cough up and can point to anomalies then it's up to you to prove it so knock yourself out. Get a lawyer. Pay 10 times the money it would have cost to get the thing fixed and Kia will pay their lawyers and win.

The bottom line is it's modded and that gives me or anyone else the right to say no. I am not going to pay for something that is out of my control.

You may be right. It may have nothing to do with the mods but it gave them an out.

They are going to blow you off. Tell them about the 1975 ruling. That should get some sympathy.

That's just not how things work here. M-M isn't a ruling, it's a federal law, with numerous updates over the years, and it lays out a number of restrictions on warranties that can't simply be blown off unless they want FTC attention. A dealer may not be receptive to your initial claim, but if you escalate it and make clear the part is unrelated to the defect, chances are someone up the food chain will decide the risk (lawsuit, loss in arbitration, or FTC complaint) is greater than just honoring the warranty.

Among other things:

The Magnuson-Moss Act makes it easier for consumers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law. The Act allows the consumer more control over whether a case is heard in federal or state court. A consumer can obtain federal jurisdiction under the Act by claiming at least $50,000 in economic damages, a lower requirement than for typical federal jurisdiction. It also allows prevailing consumers to recover court costs, expenses, and attorneys' fees. Additionally, larger cases involving many consumers can be brought in federal court as a class action suit under the Act.

While the Act makes bringing consumer lawsuits for breach of warranty easier, it encourages companies to use informal dispute resolution to settle warranty disputes with customers. The Act allows warranties to include a provision requiring customers to try to resolve warranty disputes through informal dispute resolution before going to court. However, if a warranty includes such a provision, the dispute resolution process must meet the requirements stated in the FTC's Dispute Resolution Rule.

 

[sil25rs]

definitely a mixed bag of results here, haha.

thanks for the encouragement of not giving up. I am in the process of writing to Kia Consumer Affairs and pleading my case to appeal the deny response.

 

[Ah GetFd]

One other thing.

Cars are allowed to leak oil classed as normal wear and tear in normal operation that is not covered by warranty

It states; (Australian 7 year Unlimited kms warranty)

2. What is Not Covered
The items specified below are not covered by the KIA New Vehicle Warranty:
• Replenishment or replacement of oil, fluids, coolant, wiper blades, fan belts, filters, brake and
clutch linings, spark plugs, light globes, gaskets and so on, as a result of normal wear and tear.
• Maintenance services described as “Scheduled Maintenance Service”, “Owner Maintenance
Service” or “Appearance Care” in your Owner’s Manual.
• Various adjustments, such as brake and clutch adjustment, adjustment of head lamps, wheel
alignment, tyre balancing and rotation, engine adjustment etc.
• Damage due to factors beyond the manufacturer’s control, including but not limited to -
• Misuse of the KIA Vehicle, such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing etc. (proper usage is
described in your Owner’s Manual).
• Accidents, such as collision, fire, theft, riot, etc.
• Alteration, modifications, tampering, etc.
• Impact damage, surface corrosion or cosmetic conditions, resulting from or due to, but not
limited to, stone chips or scratches in paintwork or damage to glass.
• Damage due to -
• Lack of proper maintenance as described in your Owner’s Manual.
• Improper maintenance or the use of other than the specified oil or lubricants as recommended
in your Owner’s Manual.
• Use of other than the specified fuel (as specified in your Owner’s Manual), improper fuel
quality or fuel contamination.
• Normal deterioration –
• Normal wear, tear or deterioration such as discolouration, fading, deformation etc on both
internal and external vehicle components.
• Surface corrosion on any part other than the body sheet-metal panels forming the exterior
appearance of a KIA Vehicle (Exhaust, suspension and similar components).
• Wear and tear due to normal operation, including but not limited to brake and clutch components,
tyres, suspension, engine and transmission components.
• Defects which are caused by or attributable to modifications not carried out by or at the direction
of KIA or KAU.
• Defects which are caused by or attributable to the use of non genuine KIA Parts or Accessories.
• Any damage considered to be part of normal maintenance, such as cleaning and polishing.
• Noises or vibrations of low amplitude or frequency which are considered to be representative of
the characteristics of the vehicle.
• Slight oozing of oil or fluids from seals and/or gaskets which cause no material decrease in the
level of such fluids.
• Panel gaps which are considered to be representative of manufacturer’s design intent.
• Appearance defects which are not apparent unless magnified or which are considered to be of
minor cosmetic nature and having no affect upon the general appearance or quality of the vehicle
or, which are representative of the standard of finish accepted by the manufacturer.
• Wheel rims and tyres damaged or defective as a result of impact

Whack - A - Mole

 

[sil25rs]

Way to defend the Kia legal team. sheesh.

Also,
"Slight oozing of oil or fluids from seals and/or gaskets which cause no material decrease in the
level of such fluids."

The Kia techs had to top off my oil on their initial inspection because there was loss of oil due to the leak. they "couldnt" find the source of the leak so they put a dye to see where it would come out.

Doesnt that count as material decrease in level of fluids?